Anybody else DISGUSTED at the anti lockdown protestors!?

[Duemarch2021]

It makes me so angry that people are protesting about lockdown... yes its frustrating but it's being done for a reason... to try and prevent as many deaths as there would be without a lockdown... they are selfishly spreading covid and yhe police have to put themselves out there and risk their lifes to stop the gatherings! 😠 What do they think will happen!? That government will say ok- ok you win... go wild, have fun and mingle lets just forget covid now!?.....Does this make anybody else absolutely fuming at the human race!!!?

Okay, so then we do what we want..... and the virus spread rapidly, nhs workers all go off sick, die, no hospital beds, no ventilators in hospitals left...no staff working anywhere as everyone is sick.. business close anyway cos people have died or got very sick... i could go on and on.....virus keeps spreading on and on.... then what???

Dear @Duemarch2021 :

I am an nhs nurse. Every patient on my ward has tested positive for covid. It greatly increases my workload insofar as covid positive patients need more supervision. But I haven’t seen that many deaths, even among the elderly with underlying health conditions.
A few over the past 8 months…. but not significantly more deaths than I would usually see in this age group, over that period of time.
What I can say with absolute clarity is that NHS workers on my ward are not all going off sick, much less dying! Myself and my colleagues are tested twice weekly. Occasionally someone tests positive and has to go home for a week and self-isolate. Then they come back and say they didn’t even know they had it. It is not a case of staff fatalities, more a case of staff shortages – hardly a new concept in the NHS! I am genuinely baffled by the contrast between what I am seeing with my own eyes, versus the media reports and public reaction. Covid is a serious issue that needs careful clinical management. But the wholesale shutting down of society? No.

True. I was (and still am) opposed to Brexit and I never thought it was right the way Brexit supporters were painted as a uniform group of irredeemably racist idiots, but I suppose I didn't speak out against it very much. But after being on the 'wrong' side in a couple of other divisive issues I have more sympathy for the way many people were treated and their concerns dishonestly misrepresented.

Perhaps some of the people who take the 'it's no use talking to these idiots, they're all neo-Nazis who believe any old rubbish they see on YouTube' approach will one day find that they hold a view that is publicly unacceptable. I wonder if they'd like being condemned before they can even explain their views because other people have decided they already know exactly what they think and why. Or perhaps they'll be lucky and always agree with the prevailing mood so they can keep enjoying that smug glow forever.

@FreezeFloodlit

True. I was (and still am) opposed to Brexit and I never thought it was right the way Brexit supporters were painted as a uniform group of irredeemably racist idiots, but I suppose I didn't speak out against it very much. But after being on the 'wrong' side in a couple of other divisive issues I have more sympathy for the way many people were treated and their concerns dishonestly misrepresented.

Perhaps some of the people who take the 'it's no use talking to these idiots, they're all neo-Nazis who believe any old rubbish they see on YouTube' approach will one day find that they hold a view that is publicly unacceptable. I wonder if they'd like being condemned before they can even explain their views because other people have decided they already know exactly what they think and why. Or perhaps they'll be lucky and always agree with the prevailing mood so they can keep enjoying that smug glow forever.

@FreezeFloodlit totally agree, very well put.

@Jumbogirl

Good morning lovely mnetters on this thread - regarding protests: I believe the next protests in London are going to be hijacked by violent government "protesters" who want to stop freedom of speech and civil liberties. They will be government plants. This is what repressive governments do and repressive elements have crept into our government and governments around the world.

It's going to be tough on the streets at the next protests. We are looking at Britain turning into East Germany unless we demand our civil liberties back now.

NO to mandatory vaxxing. YES to peaceful protest. peace and love

Please can you advise how you have come across this information / provide links or more detail. It may help those on here who plan joining the protests - even if only so that they can capture footage etc, which may not be taken up by the media, but will be proof either way.

If you can’t provide information then it becomes dangerous posting this type of thing and doesn’t really help matters for either side of the argument.

@cms1972

Okay, so then we do what we want..... and the virus spread rapidly, nhs workers all go off sick, die, no hospital beds, no ventilators in hospitals left...no staff working anywhere as everyone is sick.. business close anyway cos people have died or got very sick... i could go on and on.....virus keeps spreading on and on.... then what???

Dear @Duemarch2021 :

I am an nhs nurse. Every patient on my ward has tested positive for covid. It greatly increases my workload insofar as covid positive patients need more supervision. But I haven’t seen that many deaths, even among the elderly with underlying health conditions.
A few over the past 8 months…. but not significantly more deaths than I would usually see in this age group, over that period of time.
What I can say with absolute clarity is that NHS workers on my ward are not all going off sick, much less dying! Myself and my colleagues are tested twice weekly. Occasionally someone tests positive and has to go home for a week and self-isolate. Then they come back and say they didn’t even know they had it. It is not a case of staff fatalities, more a case of staff shortages – hardly a new concept in the NHS! I am genuinely baffled by the contrast between what I am seeing with my own eyes, versus the media reports and public reaction. Covid is a serious issue that needs careful clinical management. But the wholesale shutting down of society? No.

Thank you for your post on this subject @cms1972 So man people caught up in this media frenzy thinking NHS workers are dropping like flies!

@cms1972

Okay, so then we do what we want..... and the virus spread rapidly, nhs workers all go off sick, die, no hospital beds, no ventilators in hospitals left...no staff working anywhere as everyone is sick.. business close anyway cos people have died or got very sick... i could go on and on.....virus keeps spreading on and on.... then what???

Dear @Duemarch2021 :

I am an nhs nurse. Every patient on my ward has tested positive for covid. It greatly increases my workload insofar as covid positive patients need more supervision. But I haven’t seen that many deaths, even among the elderly with underlying health conditions.
A few over the past 8 months…. but not significantly more deaths than I would usually see in this age group, over that period of time.
What I can say with absolute clarity is that NHS workers on my ward are not all going off sick, much less dying! Myself and my colleagues are tested twice weekly. Occasionally someone tests positive and has to go home for a week and self-isolate. Then they come back and say they didn’t even know they had it. It is not a case of staff fatalities, more a case of staff shortages – hardly a new concept in the NHS! I am genuinely baffled by the contrast between what I am seeing with my own eyes, versus the media reports and public reaction. Covid is a serious issue that needs careful clinical management. But the wholesale shutting down of society? No.

cms 1972:

I'm with you on this one. Also an NHS nurse and the ridiculous spouting from @Duemarch2021 just shows the devastating effect the media has had on this and the ignorant public believing they will be hit with a "lethal" and "deadly" virus. What have we done that these poor souls believe all the utter nonsense they've been fed. Truly tragic.

Useful to hear an actual nurse saying the threat of Covid has been exaggerated.

If anyone knows of a petition to sign, protesting against any further Lockdown please post a link.

I think lots of people actually don’t agree with the current curbs on our freedom. But some may be reluctant to admit this publicly as it’s seen as the wrong view to have. That’s how I feel anyway - I felt odd even admitting it anonymously on MN.

"The sooner we get a grip on the virus, the sooner we can go back to no masks etc."

The government need to be reassuring us about this more. They're keeping their lips very tightly muzzled sealed about this. Will all the rules be removed when the pandemic is over? Will the government ever declare the pandemic over? How many of these restrictions will they be making permanent, by stealth, by conditioning us to accept them for the foreseeable future, especially by calling it a "new normal" (vomit)? This is what the protesters are twitchy about. Many of them foresee these restrictions becoming permanent if we let the government get away with it. One reason for the protests is to make the government AWARE that the public are foreseeing this, even though the government is hoping we won't, because they think we are plebs with memories of goldfish.

@Areweallsheepnow82

Useful to hear an actual nurse saying the threat of Covid has been exaggerated.

If anyone knows of a petition to sign, protesting against any further Lockdown please post a link.

I think lots of people actually don’t agree with the current curbs on our freedom. But some may be reluctant to admit this publicly as it’s seen as the wrong view to have. That’s how I feel anyway - I felt odd even admitting it anonymously on MN.

Your last paragraph is spot on for me.

I have always been a leftie/anti-Brexit etc and obviously moved in those circles. So the fact that I question this current lockdown/masks/mainstream stats has actually put me at odds with the people I would be naturally allied with. It definitely is an uncomfortable feeling, I realise more than ever how difficult it can be to stand up for something you truly believe at times.

I have always been a leftie/anti-Brexit etc and obviously moved in those circles. So the fact that I question this current lockdown/masks/mainstream stats has actually put me at odds with the people I would be naturally allied with. It definitely is an uncomfortable feeling, I realise more than ever how difficult it can be to stand up for something you truly believe at times

Me too

@cms1972

Okay, so then we do what we want..... and the virus spread rapidly, nhs workers all go off sick, die, no hospital beds, no ventilators in hospitals left...no staff working anywhere as everyone is sick.. business close anyway cos people have died or got very sick... i could go on and on.....virus keeps spreading on and on.... then what???

Dear @Duemarch2021 :

I am an nhs nurse. Every patient on my ward has tested positive for covid. It greatly increases my workload insofar as covid positive patients need more supervision. But I haven’t seen that many deaths, even among the elderly with underlying health conditions.
A few over the past 8 months…. but not significantly more deaths than I would usually see in this age group, over that period of time.
What I can say with absolute clarity is that NHS workers on my ward are not all going off sick, much less dying! Myself and my colleagues are tested twice weekly. Occasionally someone tests positive and has to go home for a week and self-isolate. Then they come back and say they didn’t even know they had it. It is not a case of staff fatalities, more a case of staff shortages – hardly a new concept in the NHS! I am genuinely baffled by the contrast between what I am seeing with my own eyes, versus the media reports and public reaction. Covid is a serious issue that needs careful clinical management. But the wholesale shutting down of society? No.

Thank you cms1972

How can we change the narrative the media and government are intent on peddling?

@cms1972

Thank you for your honesty and all the best throughout the pandemic.

I don't have a large mortgage to pay and am quite skilled so feel I'd easily find a job if my company was to go into liquidation and if not, I'd deal with that somehow but at least I'd have my family and friends alive.

That is exactly what I thought. You can selfishly sit back and tell protestors why they should do as you want because that is what is best for you and your family and you don't have to worry about paying your mortgage/rent or finding a new job. Well, likewise perhaps those protestors value their ability to protect their families by keeping a roof over their heads and that is what is important to them and what is best for their families.

Also, most people are "vulnerable" in one way or another including the thousands of people who will become homeless because they have lost their jobs, suffer from mental health problems, die because they are not getting treatment for all the other medical conditions that don't seem to matter anymore.

Perhaps stay at home for the foreseeable future and get someone to bring you shopping and wait for the vaccine if you are so concerned about spreading the virus and everyone else can get on with their lives and livelihoods?

@cms1972

I read something interesting the other day to the effect that more than one in six people who are treated in hospital for Covid are thought to have acquired the infection in hospital. I.e. they’ve gone into hospital because they’re ill, then they’ve caught Covid while there, and required hospital treatment because they were already ill.

When I read that it did make me seriously question the wisdom/necessity of lockdowns - if a very significant proportion of serious infections are acquired in hospital.

And I don't think that's realistic because complete elimination is not a feasible option, even with a vaccine. You can drag it out and there may be benefit in doing so, but it's dragging it out, it's not getting rid of the issue.

So it comes down to balance and how many lives we should sacrifice on one side to save how many lives on the other side. And it's a valid debate because any course involves some people being sacrificed and some people being saved - and that's before you start considering the balance between quality and quantity of life. There is no perfect answer where everyone is saved and no one suffers.

I really agree with this. The fact is that this pandemic and how we respond to it raises a lot of incredibly complicated moral, ethical, philosophical, legal, mathematical, economic, social and scientific questions. I don’t know what the answers are, I don’t even pretend to know and I don’t think anyone knows - even the experts in the various fields are divided. But reducing it to ‘sheeple’ vs ‘mad conspiracy theorists’ is so so reductive of about incredibly complex debate with valid views and conflicting data on all sides.

Thank you to those people who left positive feedback

I would describe the pandemic as 'hard work', but what I wanted to convey with my post is, it's not the bubonic plague!

@Buddytheelf85 - yes I would agree with you. The patients on my ward were covid-free on admission. They contracted it in hospital. To me that makes Covid another Hospital Acquired Infection. The NHS is no stranger to dealing with HAIs. We already have the procedures in place.

It may be more than my job is worth to have an opinion on lockdown, but here goes!

I think the damage caused by lockdown will far exceed the damage caused by Covid-19.
Already I have friends who have lost their jobs. Another friend has just been handed a terminal diagnosis - his cancer treatment was put on hold by..... you've guessed it.
Then you have all the wider issues, the damage caused to democracy, to education, to relationships, to the housing market... it's a long list.

I don't claim to understand why all this is happening but what I do know is, the truth always comes out eventually. And until it does we must focus on facts - take one day at a time... and keep going!

@cms1972 Thank you for what you do and for posting

Whats your opinion on whats been going on on Twitter?

twitter.com/joanna_louise0/status/1333322039067815936?s=20

Thank you for sharing the link.
I think it's a shame that people are throwing insults. What good can it do?
I feel for the nurse behind that post & I feel for people in hospital and in care.
But I also sympathise with those who think that we live in a democracy and should be allowed to make our own decisions.
I myself had ('had' being the operative word) a friend who lived in a CH. She has recently died. Not of Covid, but I don't think she would have died if she hadn't been deprived of visits for months on end.

I feel very guilty about her.

It is a horrible year for us all... all the more important then to show compassion, count to ten and stop arguing !!

Agree.

I’ve lost count of the number of times I have to point this out.
New Zealand - population less than 10% of UK population. Size of country - the same. There is SOOOOOOOO much space there, you couldn’t spread the virus if you tried!

Have you been to NZ? Auckland is population-dense and has a large proportion of people of Pacific Island ethnicity. They have higher rates of overweight/obesity and type 2 diabetes. Had the virus not been contained there would have been devastating effects on people of Polynesian ethnicity.

While NZ and Australia had a head-start with the virus in terms of geographical area there has been an excellent public health responses. Tracing where I live in Australia is phenomenal. Each new community case is typed to ascertain its origins. Victoria went back into lockdown after a surge of around 30 cases (this worked).

It’s true that we can’t travel internationally but local tourism has done well and the restrictions in the U.K. I read about on MN seem like another world. Locally, schools are open, shops are open, health services are open and functioning, people aren’t wearing or debating about masks, no one is talking about bubbles and restricting numbers for Christmas. Some interstate borders were closed for longer than some people liked (QLD keeping NSW out) and there were very very vocal protests but the QLD premier won re election on the back of it. Most People can see what’s happening in the U.K./USA and don’t want to live like that. There are no widespread protests about opening international borders. Australians coming back are placed in compulsory quarantine and COVID tested.

I have never understood the logic of the U.K. locking down but keeping international borders wide open. The half-arsed and seemingly illogical approach to managing the virus over there would piss me off too.

I have never understood the logic of the U.K. locking down but keeping international borders wide open

Oh i do. Only too well!

58000 have not died from covid. Actually the figure is deaths of any cause but having a positive test within last 28 days. Which tells you nothing about the actual cause of death and as such is a completely useless tally. It's as useful as publicising how many deaths of people with an ingrowing toenail. It doesn't mean the toenail killed them. It is designed to give the impression that the virus has killed that many and thus scare the public into compliance. It is a complete propaganda exercise.

@Alphavilla

58000 have not died from covid. Actually the figure is deaths of any cause but having a positive test within last 28 days. Which tells you nothing about the actual cause of death and as such is a completely useless tally. It's as useful as publicising how many deaths of people with an ingrowing toenail. It doesn't mean the toenail killed them. It is designed to give the impression that the virus has killed that many and thus scare the public into compliance. It is a complete propaganda exercise.

Yeah ok. The world's governments, and scientific and medical experts (and the excess deaths figures) - the World Health Organisation, the British Medical Association, are all lying. The cash strapped NHS is splashing out on Long Covid treatment clinics across the UK for a lark. All as some kind of 'propaganda'. Ok then.

@MercyBooth

I have never understood the logic of the U.K. locking down but keeping international borders wide open

Oh i do. Only too well!

The logic is their contempt for the vulnerable. The poor, the disabled, those with chronic health conditions (soon to include the Long Covid sufferers), and the elderly. Oh - and prioritising short-term greed over long-term economic stability.