BIL and SIL - do we call them out on this?

[Nutbutter]

We’ve just had our second baby 2 weeks ago. DC1 is 18 months. It’s been quite tough in lockdown with no support as all our family live far away and DH is working long hours. The exception is BIL and SIL (DH’s brother and his wife), who live a 15 min drive away. Before BIL was with SIL (he’s been with SIL 4 years and married for 2) we were really close. We’ve always been friendly towards SIL but don’t think she likes us and we only see them now when initiated by us. BIL is happy to let her control his social life and it apparently doesn’t include seeing us much!

Anyway, since the baby was born BIL has only texted congrats. All other family members have sent presents and cards and called us for facetimes, and all our local friends have dropped round food and come to say hello to the baby on the doorstep. I feel really offended that BIL and SIL basically haven’t acknowledged their new nephew. To be clear, it’s not the lack of gift that’s upset me but the fact that it shows they don’t care about us, which I find really sad. By contrast, when their other brother had a baby earlier this year BIL and SIL travelled the significant distance to see them.

I feel like we should speak to them and basically ask if there’s something we’ve done to offend them. DH just wants to let it go and accept that his bro doesn’t want a close relationship with us anymore.

So as not to drip feed, they are expecting their first baby in the new year. I was really hoping the cousins could be close.

Umm you would be ridiculous to “call them out” on this. You aren’t in charge of how other people conduct themselves. They don’t answer to you or owe you anything. And secondly, they did acknowledge your baby, just not in a gushing way that you seem to expect. Catch a grip of yourself.

'SIL probably does not like you'

Aren't you a charmer. Thing is we may not be bffs with our relatives but it's polite to at least try and show interest.

You don’t know what is going on in their lives - maybe she is having problems with her pregnancy and doesn’t want to say. It appears you are not close - calling her out is only going to alienate her more. She might change though when she has a baby. So I would just leave it. My DB and s’n’law did some strange things before they had their own baby. After we booked long haul flights to their wedding they announced children were not welcome and expected us to google the internet to hire some random. My sister’s baby was 6 months at the time. Since they have had their own baby it’s given them a new perspective.

You want to start an argument with your pregnant SIL but hope the cousins will be close?

@longwayoff

You want to start an argument with your pregnant SIL but hope the cousins will be close?

No I don’t want to start an argument with SIL - I wondered whether DH should ask his brother whether we had done something to offend them which had led to them withdrawing from us. But thanks to the many constructive replies on the thread I’ve realised this isn’t a good idea.

@Smallsteps88

Umm you would be ridiculous to “call them out” on this. You aren’t in charge of how other people conduct themselves. They don’t answer to you or owe you anything. And secondly, they did acknowledge your baby, just not in a gushing way that you seem to expect. Catch a grip of yourself.

Out of interest, how do you/would you behave if your sibling had a baby?

Out of interest, how do you/would you behave if your sibling had a baby?

I think if it was the middle of lock down, second child. and I was a Covid risk I’d do what they did to protect you all

Don’t think it would occur to me you’d need an immediate gift and couldn’t wait,

I’d feel the same as you OP. I spent many years projecting my family values on to my DHs family and found myself almost constantly frustrated and disappointed. I’d be the only one organising big family meals/get togethers with no reciprocation and even a load of insults about the food I prepared. Took me far far too long to realise that I could actually just stop. I stopped doing the organising and now just let them get on with it between them.

Fairly long winded way of saying, you can’t expect other families to behave in a certain way. You can’t affect how other people behave, you can only change your reaction to it. Save yourselves years of stress and let them get on with whatever they want to do.

I don't think you can compare their behaviour in February with now, particularly when she is also now pregnant. They might be struggling now and that is why they seem uncaring.

It was maybe 50 or so friends? They had a garden party with cake and then went out in the evening. Family didn’t come but they all live hours away. We live 15mins away and it would have been so easy for us to drop in for the garden party bit. We know most of BIL’s close friends very well as we used to live with BIL and DH also knows many from school.

Big ouch, tbh, but maybe the baby made them not invite you? It would change the dynamic, maybe she thought you wouldn’t want to come because of the baby? Ultimately, as pp have said, if bil was bothered, he’d make the effort. Sending a card and gift is a piece of piss via Amazon.

Back off, let your DH deal with his family

Out of interest, how do you/would you behave if your sibling had a baby?

It’s not relevant to your situation. My relationship with my sibling isn’t your husbands relationship with his sibling. Relationships differ. This is the relationship BIL wants with your DH. He doesn’t owe him the same relationship he has with his other brother. Some siblings get on better than others within the same families. Adults understand and accept this. Only children stomp their feet and say “it’s not fair”.

The birthday party thing was mean. I would definitely stop using that WhatsApp group. She’s made it pretty obvious she doesn’t want to be friends, and you trying to force it just makes you seem needy and annoying. And as long as you’re doing the running for all four of you, BIL will never feel like he needs to make any effort.

I’d back off completely and encourage your DH to text his brother in a few weeks and invite him out for a drink. That’s the only relationship worth persisting with here. Congratulations on your baby, your kids will always have each their so you really don’t need to worry about the cousin relationship.

OP maybe the SIL just doesn’t like you or like your DH.

There are people I have to socialise with sometimes (pre covid) due to friendship groups mixing that I don’t like. I don’t make any effort with the ones I don’t like but if they chat to me or we are placed together then I will be polite as they haven’t actually done anything wrong. Iv just took a dislike to them so I don’t make any effort to seek them out.

I think the key here is, you can't control the actions and emotions of other people. You aren't in control of the way your BIL/SIL behave and whether their behaviour is unreasonable or not, pointing out to them that they've made you feel like you've done something wrong is vanishingly unlikely to create a sudden turnaround in their behaviour. People's instincts are normally pretty good, so I don't doubt you're right there is something you've done or something about you generally that SIL doesn't like. What you have to process and learn to accept is that you can't change it. Enjoy your children, stop worrying about BIL/SIL and carry on with your life.

I can recall a neighbour being really cross with me because I hadnt called to see her new baby. This was many years ago. I was a young single woman with a career and not particularly interested in babies. No reason why I should be. It has simply not occurred to me to call with a gift etc.

I had seen the husband and asked if there was any news, only to be told that mother and baby were doing well. So I had acknowledged the birth in much the same way that a text or email would do today. It would not have occurred to me that I was "expected" to send a card or call with a gift. We were not close friends.

I reminded her that we were neighbours, not friends. I would have thought that a new mother had enough to do with a constant stream of family members wanting to see the new arrival, without having a pushy neighbour to entertain as well.

Just accept the fact that some people just are not that interested in other peoples babies and get over it.

With respect @sneakysnoopysniper a neighbour is a completely different situation to a nephew so baffled that you’d make that comparison tbh.

@Bluntness100 really not sure why you’re so keen to argue with me on this. I’ve said so many times that we aren’t expecting a physical visit - a phonecall, or even another WhatsApp in response to ours would have been nice. No covid risk there.

@rottiemum88

I think the key here is, you can't control the actions and emotions of other people. You aren't in control of the way your BIL/SIL behave and whether their behaviour is unreasonable or not, pointing out to them that they've made you feel like you've done something wrong is vanishingly unlikely to create a sudden turnaround in their behaviour. People's instincts are normally pretty good, so I don't doubt you're right there is something you've done or something about you generally that SIL doesn't like. What you have to process and learn to accept is that you can't change it. Enjoy your children, stop worrying about BIL/SIL and carry on with your life.

Thanks - I think this is spot on.

Regardless of whether it was a neighbor or a nephew you are implying that there are "codes of behavior" that you would like to impose on others. Call round, bring presents, or at least send a card. You cant impose your codes of behavior on others and then whinge when they fail to comply. Perhaps your relatives have other priorities. You cant just make them over into your ideal.

@sneakysnoopysniper

Regardless of whether it was a neighbor or a nephew you are implying that there are "codes of behavior" that you would like to impose on others. Call round, bring presents, or at least send a card. You cant impose your codes of behavior on others and then whinge when they fail to comply. Perhaps your relatives have other priorities. You cant just make them over into your ideal.

@sneakysnoopysniper maybe read my responses on this thread - you’ve missed the point.

I haven't read the whole thread, but have you considered that they may have had issues conceiving and that it has been hard for them to cope with you having one child already and then being pregnant again? Or that SIL is having a difficult pregnancy on top of working in what must be a very difficult environment at the moment? Just because someone doesn't choose to share these things with you doesn't mean they aren't experiencing them or that it is personal about you.

You're being wildly over-sensitive and forgetting to have any consideration for your SIL. Judging a 7-8 months pregnant woman for not running about after you is hardcore. There are so many possible reasons why you aren't and shouldn't be top of the list. They have a baby due in January and you have no idea what issues SIL may have been facing in this pregnancy. Some women get unexpected late bleeding, have to go in for monitoring because they can't hear the heartbeat, early contractions, high blood pressure, general exhaustion, fear of labour they may even be aware of an issue to be sorted out when the baby is born - or she might just be struggling to finish up work and handovers before maternity leave. Some people also recognise there's a lot of early attention on babies, so they prefer to see the family later when others drop away.

You've had a message to say congratulations, they must know all the other family will run about early on, and it's lockdown. If you want to see them then say "hi, we'd love to see you after lockdown, maybe meet in X park?" (if that's within the rules for your tier). Otherwise this over-dramatisation is a sure way to lose the relationship for good. Enjoy your baby, send photos and friendly texts if you want to build a friendship.

How is her pregnancy going? Has she done any baby shopping? Does she know what to get? Did they have any fertility issues prior to falling pregnant? How's she finding juggling her job and her condition? Is she anxious? You see lockdown has redefined interactions so you'll need to adjust.

Sorry OP. I can see where you're coming from but you'll constantly have a bone to pick if you feel you're entitled to attention. Worse still, you'll end up with followers instead of real friends if you're insisting you need to be checked up on. Strange as it may sound, human beings are inherently selfish - by that I mean we like to put ourselves first by default. So you're not definitely not on their radar. You face the possibility of causing a rift between your BIL and your DH so best stay out of it. Surround yourself with people with whom you can be yourself with.
Congratulations on the birth of your little one.

DH and his brother are not close. Maybe that is down to SIL, maybe not. They have excluded you from a major family event (the 30th) and been downright dismissive about your new baby. I'm with you on that, one text and no follow-up is a 'fuck off'.

Let it go. You can't make people like you and asking why they don't won't help. They have no interest in your family or in your dc being close. That's sad, but there is nothing you can do to make it better.

OP - are you still close to / in touch with BIL's previous girlfriend? There may be a clue there. Have you sounded out anyone else in the family discreetly to find out if they know anything.