To have sent this text?

[ZebraStripez]

My mum (approaching 80, poor health) is our bubble. I’ve told DH repeatedly that my mum and I won’t be socialising till we’re vaccinated. But his family are discussing us coming for Christmas and saying they’re going to drop in on us and he’s not telling them no.

So I texted that we’re my mums support bubble and she’s too vulnerable to risk socialising before she’s vaccinated, and also I’m nervous about my own health because I have several risk factors. We haven’t been out since March so we plan to continue isolating until we’re vaccinated. Perhaps DH is planning a socially distanced visit by himself over Christmas.

All hell has kicked off. MIL has left the conversation and blocked me. Everyone else has stopped replying. DH is furious at me for sending such a nasty text and being selfish because I don’t want to see them.

AIBU? I genuinely don’t know. The text sounds fine to me but I don’t trust my own judgement based on how everyone else has kicked off. DH insists he’s shown my text to “everyone at work” and they’ve all said how horrible it is so that proves I’m nasty.

I don't like your text message, it expresses no regret "So sorry, we will miss seeing you etc", it states that your Mum is more important than everyone else. I would be angry if my husband had sent a text like that to my parents without consulting me and I would be going straight over to see them to try to explain about your anxiety and apologise. Their reaction is a bit OTT but I think you were unreasonable to send the text. Setting boundaries is one thing andoften a good thing but dictating to everyone and not looking for any compromise is different.

How old are your husband's parents btw?

@Bluntness100

Catsrus you clearly feel very strongly about it, so I suspect it’s you doing it and not a medic. Just crack on. No one has ever caught it from a surface and even the heisenberg study showed with four infect patients in one house the scientists couldn’t find the virus live on any surface at all. And they did what, a thousand homes? You also know that all the delivery drivers are not coming down with it, or retail workers, supermarket workers etc? Folks who touch packaging all day long? Logically the evidence is there if you think about it. You can’t catch it from a package, certainly not in a high enough dose to make you ill, if, by any stretch of the imagination you could catch it from your groceries.

However you need to do what you feel makes you happy and if bleaching your groceries is it, then crack on and bleach your groceries.

@Bluntness100 Believe what you like, I trust my housemate's judgment when it comes to medical matters. While I'm not a medic, I am a scientist so I understand how to evaluate scientific studies.

There is more than enough evidence to show persistence of the virus on multiple kinds of surface for days. That is WHY we are advised to wash our hands.

The most recent study I've seen (7th Oct Virology Journal) states the following results from an Australian study

Results
Survival rates of SARS-CoV-2 were determined at different temperatures and D-values, Z-values and half-life were calculated. We obtained half lives of between 1.7 and 2.7 days at 20 °C, reducing to a few hours when temperature was elevated to 40 °C. With initial viral loads broadly equivalent to the highest titres excreted by infectious patients, viable virus was isolated for up to 28 days at 20 °C from common surfaces such as glass, stainless steel and both paper and polymer banknotes. Conversely, infectious virus survived less than 24 h at 40 °C on some surfaces.

Conclusion
These findings demonstrate SARS-CoV-2 can remain infectious for significantly longer time periods than generally considered possible. These results could be used to inform improved risk mitigation procedures to prevent the fomite spread of COVID-19.

virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12985-020-01418-7

I'll carry on disinfecting my shopping.

Your poor kids.

No one in your family seems to like each other very much, and no one really wants to spend any time with the kids if they can get out of it. Except possibly your elderly mother.

oh and I followed one of the links in that study to this one -

"Abstract

An explanation is required for the re-emergence of COVID-19 outbreaks in regions with apparent local eradication. Recent outbreaks have emerged in Vietnam, New Zealand and parts of China where there had been no cases for some months. Importation of contaminated food and food packaging is a feasible source for such outbreaks and a source of clusters within existing outbreaks. Such events can be prevented if the risk is better appreciated."

www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.17.255166v1.abstract

@namechangeforfriday

Why is nobody railing against the husband for playing computer games when he’s meant to be parenting his children, or for refusing to actually communicate with and make arrangements with his own family? Oh, of course, because that’s all women’s work and one drawing a line and refusing to take on more of the mental load than she wants is the spawn of Satan.

People have, but currently the OP is facilitating him being able to do so.

The whole set up is truly dysfunctional.

I do agree that there are problems here that go beyond the text message and there’s obviously a bigger lack of communication, but I don’t think OP’s attitude is the problem. From what I can infer the DH’s family want her to capitulate to them, the DH can’t communicate with his wife or his family, and she is refusing to give in on a point of principle which many people may do for a quiet life. The thing that most stands out is that the DH needs to do more active parenting and take the children for a walk with his family if he wants, without expecting his wife to facilitate it.

@namechangeforfriday

I do agree that there are problems here that go beyond the text message and there’s obviously a bigger lack of communication, but I don’t think OP’s attitude is the problem. From what I can infer the DH’s family want her to capitulate to them, the DH can’t communicate with his wife or his family, and she is refusing to give in on a point of principle which many people may do for a quiet life. The thing that most stands out is that the DH needs to do more active parenting and take the children for a walk with his family if he wants, without expecting his wife to facilitate it.

Well he can't really, because if he takes the kids himself, OP is insisting that he and the kids quarantine afterwards (away from her and her mum) for 14 days. That's hardly a choice that he can reasonably make.

The whole thing is insane.

Hi OP. I have nothing to add, but for what it's worth, I like you. (You seem to have your head screwed on right to me.)

@namechangeforfriday

I do agree that there are problems here that go beyond the text message and there’s obviously a bigger lack of communication, but I don’t think OP’s attitude is the problem. From what I can infer the DH’s family want her to capitulate to them, the DH can’t communicate with his wife or his family, and she is refusing to give in on a point of principle which many people may do for a quiet life. The thing that most stands out is that the DH needs to do more active parenting and take the children for a walk with his family if he wants, without expecting his wife to facilitate it.

The whole marriage is beyond dysfunctional and the parents are point-scoring and, as someone put it "working to rule" - doing the bare minimum and basically outsourcing all of their time with children to the grandmother. The whole setup is pretty miserable and like a lot of these threads the initial complaint is essentially asking the wrong question.

The OP and her husband clearly need to separate and that's what this is really all about.

All that said, and despite the fact that OP and her husband need in the long run to face up to this situation, I still think the DH and his family are absolute arseholes. There is just no way I would remain in a relationship with someone who had told me "no one likes you".

There is just no way I would remain in a relationship with someone who had told me "no one likes you".

I do generally agree. I can’t imagine my husband ever saying that to me but I definitely wouldn’t tolerate it. However, it’s entirely possible OP has asked her husband recently why no one likes her (it does seem unlikely based on her DGAF attitude but you never know). She may have said a couple of weeks ago “I don’t seem to have any friends, no one seems to like me” and then when this kicked off yesterday he may very well have said “see... this is why!” Context is everything.

It definitely sounds like you would be better filing for divorce from your husband. You both appear to be desperately unhappy and engaged in this war, refusing to give in to each other and determined to score points off each other. My heart breaks for your children to be living in such a toxic environment. My god, there’s more to life than this for all of you!

I think your text was fine but a little curt. People get prickly about Christmas at the best of times but I think right now a lot of people are really tightly wound and I can see why it kicked off.

That said, having read your further posts, I think you have bigger problems than an over reaction to a slightly badly worded text.

@ReeseWitherfork

There is just no way I would remain in a relationship with someone who had told me "no one likes you".

I do generally agree. I can’t imagine my husband ever saying that to me but I definitely wouldn’t tolerate it. However, it’s entirely possible OP has asked her husband recently why no one likes her (it does seem unlikely based on her DGAF attitude but you never know). She may have said a couple of weeks ago “I don’t seem to have any friends, no one seems to like me” and then when this kicked off yesterday he may very well have said “see... this is why!” Context is everything.

Context is important but I just don't think that excuses this. Even if I were asked that question by someone of whom it was patently true I wouldn't say that.

The OP is clearly blunt occasionally to the point of rudeness and it seems reasonable to assume they have discussed this as a couple over the years. But to actually tell the person to whom you are married that no-one likes them just leaves me speechless.

Context is important but I just don't think that excuses this. Even if I were asked that question by someone of whom it was patently true I wouldn't say that.
Mmm you may be right, I definitely see what you mean. I guess I’m assuming that her and her husband have indeed discussed it but she can’t understand what he’s referring to. So in a scenario where she has indeed been blunt, he’s just pointing it out. Having said that, the guy clearly is an asshole. Just can’t work out if he’s only a reactive asshole or a proactive one too!

ReeseWitherfork Bit of both I'd say. Most of the posters on this thread have fixated on the OP's approach to carving out time for herself and getting her elderly mum to facilitate this -- which I agree is odd. But if I was married to someone who actively avoided spending time with his children or helping with their upkeep and was verbally abusive to me I think I would be behaving in the same way. She's just trying to survive this horrendous marriage.

Your message is to the point but it definitely isn’t rude.

The only thing missing from it is some comment that you would have LOVED to see them but what with COVID risks it just wouldn’t work this year. And something about how you really look forward to getting together with them when all this is over...

I suspect you could make a case that being in a marriage with a DP who has spent months bleaching food, won't let your dc see your parents, isn't working anymore and spends one day a week hiding in our bedroom is pretty bad as well.

I don't think either parent in this situation comes out looking anything other than pretty awful and certainly neither seems capable of putting their dc first.

At least if they split OP could have a day by herself in her house and her ex could spend his time with his family and dc together. Both parents need to stop point scoring off each other and put their children first. They are both behaving like immature idiots at present.

Considering they are aware you are a plain speaker, I'm surprised they were offended.

Your husband sounds awful, nasty, and actively avoidant of family life.

Good on you for insisting on a few hours.

It does sound as if the atmosphere is toxic and that will be very damaging for your children to grow up in.

Your text was fine.

I think your immature bullying MIL has raised an immature, bullying son!

I hope you have a lovely Christmas with your mum, who unlike your MIL has raised a caring child.

Does your husband often act like this?

Your text was perfectly fine. I think people are being unreasonable giving out to you over this - it is your husband that is the problem! I think you'd be better off divorcing him tbh, it sounds like you despise him. He's very selfish and a gaslighter. I think you need to talk to your mum about facilitating your husband's laziness. It's not on that he does zero parenting.

The last sentence of your text is what has called the aggression as it comes across very matter of a fact and cold. Fair enough that is the way you are and you would think that the inlaws would know that by now. Not saying I agree with this by the way.

I do not think you should have to facilitate the relationship between the kids and grandparents, how many times on mumsnet do people say they don't but gifts for inlaws but leave their partner to fo it? Their son should be making the effort. I like my mil, so see no issue in ringing her a few times a week to check how she is and send regular pics of the kids. You don't feel this is necessary due to your personality but it does explain why people probably don't warm to you (you don't make any effort). I can understand wht they would be annoyed at you but blocking you is a massive overreaction. It sounds like they had been holding on to having some kind of relationship with you when they shouldn't. You are not interested and they should give up. Their own son needs to step up. I come from a background where family is important and in our relationship their is no his or my family they are all ours but that works for us and not yourself. I find it hard to understand your kind of setup and would not want to raise a family in this way. Are you really compatible going forward?

No harm in having a few hours off from the kids when you do the bulk of the childcare, assuming you are not a robot, you are allowed a rest. I don't think that makes you a poor parent, what about parents that have hobbies that take them away from the kids?

Your health anxiety is playing a big part in your current behaviour and your dh is either supportive or not.

Op people agreed with you at the start. Not anymore. The vote is meaningless.

You and your Dh sound utterly miserable. Your poor, poor children. Come to think of it, your poor mum and Dhs family too...this is all just soooo toxic.

@thepeopleversuswork

ReeseWitherfork Bit of both I'd say. Most of the posters on this thread have fixated on the OP's approach to carving out time for herself and getting her elderly mum to facilitate this -- which I agree is odd. But if I was married to someone who actively avoided spending time with his children or helping with their upkeep and was verbally abusive to me I think I would be behaving in the same way. She's just trying to survive this horrendous marriage.

Which begs the question...why the hell are they still tied to marriage which neither seems to enjoy?

I'm a single parent of three. The utter relentlessness of it all is awful. But it was worse when I felt trapped in a marriage with a man who didn't understand me (or me him).

So as much as the op has the right to exert her boundaries and rules, her dh equally has the right to find them abhorrent. The upshot is that they are grossly incompatible and should dissolve the marriage. That would be the logical outcome, no?