Neighbour told my DS that Father Christmas isn't real

[myneighboursarebellends]

My DS9 is in the same class in school as the DC next door, so me and the neighbour take turns to do the school run in the mornings. We have only lived next door to each other for just over a year and they have been ok aside from a run in over a fence, a tree, and their DC having a stint of being mean to mine in school 🥴 I have been so non-confrontational with all of this stuff because I have to live next door to them and don't want hostile relations with neighbours!

However, today's episode has really crossed a line for me and I need your help to understand if it is reasonable for me to be so fucked off (and to tell me what to do!)

DS has just said to me that on the way to school this morning, dad neighbour told him that Father Christmas isn't real. This is how he says the conversation went:
My DS: will you have elf on the shelf in your house?
Neighbour: no because elf on the shelf is fake. Just like Father Christmas, he doesn't exist.
My DS: yes he does!
Neighbour: no he doesn't. Christmas is about celebrating Jesus' birth, and Father Christmas is just made up.
My DS: well I don't believe in Jesus, so I think he is made up
Neighbour: what do you mean! Jesus created the earth, and all of us.
My DS: well I thought god was supposed to have created the earth

Ok, the whole god and Jesus part isn't so relevant, just relaying what DS said. But aside from telling him Father Christmas isn't real, elf on the shelf isn't real, and telling him he has to believe in Jesus, the man isn't even Catholic/Christian anyway. His wife is though (non practicing) and their family celebrate Christmas with presents and a tree and big fucking flashing Christmas lights on the outside of the house.

How DARE he tell someone else's child that Father Christmas doesn't exist! Who does that? I don't feel like I can let this go without saying something but I feel as if I need to balance my response being mindful that I have to continue to live next door to them! I don't really want to continue with the lift sharing but I am imagining the awkwardness of us bundling the DC into our own cars every morning whilst avoiding eye contact and then again at the other end!!

dinglethedragon Fri 27-Nov-20 22:54:43
Mummadeeze

I would have been FURIOUS! My DD believed until she was 11 and we all loved every minute of her believing. It was very sad when I told her the truth as she was approaching secondary school and she was gutted. People’s views on here of spoiling a family tradition and a magical experience are really weird in my opinion. Hope your DS believes you and not the nasty, rude, inconsiderate neighbour.
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perhaps she was gutted because she had been lied to by people she thought she could trust?

I think it's totally bizarre to lie to children in this way. As a child we joked about father Christmas bringing the present to the good children, etc - but we knew the presents came from our parents and family - they had labels on them for one thing "with love from aunty Mary and uncle George" 😃.

Father Christmas was a nice story, no more true than Snow White and the seven dwarves or Scrooge and Tiny Tim. We enjoyed the story but never ever ever believed it was real - and I don't know a single child in my class who did believe it was real. I'm in my 60's - and I think this whole "real Father Christmas" thing is another American import, like treat or treat.

My DC understood the difference between a story and reality by the time they started school, it doesn't spoil the joy to be had in stories - but it did mean they trusted what I told them.
___

You have a very sensible attitude in my opinion, dingle.

timeforanewstart Fri 27-Nov-20 20:42:09
@jessstan1 what world so you live in where children are kept very young ? Kids grow up way to fast
......
No they don't. They did in my day in the sense that we were supposed to behave sensibly, were punished if we didn't, but were still 'owned' by the adults. A lot of us were like 'little old people'. The generation before mine were even more so.

Nowadays children are allowed to express themselves, their feelings are considered, they are encouraged to be confident and the world is generally more child-friendly. However, a lot of young adults still live at home with parents, partly because of economics, but they are often still 'looked after' at home in much the same way as when they were children.

@Goosefoot

Your neighbour sounds like he was being a twit, but at 9 I would not be too fussed. It seems like your son held his own. Though you might tell him that Jesus was a historical person and not imaginary, (as was St Nicholas.)

Actually, there are no direct historical records that confirm the existence of Jesus. There are some records from around 50 AD or later about problems with Christians, but not one single record about Jesus, himself. And if your answer is that the Christians must have been worshiping SOMEONE, that argument would also say that ALL the other gods of the pagans must also be real. Because they must be worshipping SOMEONE as well. Believe, don't believe, but Jesus is not a documented historical person...or not yet. It would tickle me no end if some hidden records were discovered that confirmed his existence one way or the other, but if they exist, they remain secreted away from the eyes of men.

I still tell my kids santa is real and they are teens. The guy was out of order sounds a right knobhead.

Your neighbour sounds strange. It wasn't his place to tell your doc about Santa. He should have left it at " no, we don't have an elf in our house. ".
I don't really know what you can do about it though there is unringinv a bell. Maybe have a word about respecting your beliefs and customs as it is also not his place to push religious beliefs onto your child.

My 3.5 yo kniws that father Christmas doesn't exist and Jesus does. This doesn't mean he can't have the same joy when he sees a Santa climbing on a house or in the front of a neighbour's house or on a chocolate figurine..etc

Being nine and still believing. .. surely not 😅
But neighbour could have just hold his tongue re santa but also re jezus 🤔

Hahah 3.5yo doesnt believe in one fictional character (santa)but does believe in another fictional character...😅 w..t..

@YeahnahmumHahah 3.5yo doesnt believe in one fictional character (santa)but does believe in another fictional character...😅 w..t..
Bookmark
Maybe for you is fictional but for me is not.

@Yeahnahmum

Being nine and still believing. .. surely not 😅 But neighbour could have just hold his tongue re santa but also re jezus 🤔

He was rather put on the spot. People cannot always find the right words at the right time; it's best to be vague and change the subject in those circumstances but hindsight is all very well.

It's over and done with but I do think it is silly to get upset about such things which are bound to happen in many context. Haven't we all said silly, unnecessary things at times? I'm sure I have and hope I'm forgiven.

My 9 year old still believes , I think this could be the last year . I'm making the most of it because she's the last believer in the house I'd be so cross if someone did this

@cony95 but many people believe that jesus doesn't exsist ? Would you be happy for someone to tell
Him this

@jessstan1 did you have access to internet ? Did you have a tv in your room or phone ,? Most of us never and we played with toys and dolls a. Lot longer . We were not expected to be young adults we were children and treated as kids
Children grow up a lot quicker these days in a different way to what you are comparing
Kids believed in FC for a lot longer when I was a kid than some do now

@dinglethedragon my children trust me and i guarantee you have probably lied to your child at some point ,even a white lie so as not to hurt their feelings
You must of gone to a strange school that not one single person believed in FC , my parents went to school in 60's and people believed then
my childhood was magical with the belief in father xmas and the memories of putting out food for reindeers and same for my kids
I have never had to seek therapy because my parents lied to me about FC and neither have my kids

@timeforanewstart of course not but this will hapen without doubt.

[quote timeforanewstart]@dinglethedragon my children trust me and i guarantee you have probably lied to your child at some point ,even a white lie so as not to hurt their feelings
You must of gone to a strange school that not one single person believed in FC , my parents went to school in 60's and people believed then
my childhood was magical with the belief in father xmas and the memories of putting out food for reindeers and same for my kids
I have never had to seek therapy because my parents lied to me about FC and neither have my kids
[/quote]
no - I've never lied to my children. I've had to tell them the truth in words and concepts they understood, but I've never knowingly lied to them. It drove them crazy that I wouldn't lie to school about lateness or homework or illness. I got told that all their friend's mothers did - well, sorry, no. I don't do lying, and actually I know a lot of other parents who don't do lying either.

As for people believing in the 60's - well not in my northern working class school. How cruel would that have been, to perpetuate a myth that good children got presents when there were so many of us whose parents could only afford one present for each of us?

Different times, maybe wealthier families played those mind games with their children, mine didn't. We asked for what wanted for Christmas and were told whether or not it was affordable. The surprise presents were the little things from aunties and uncles.

Christmas was no less magical for knowing that the stories were - well lovely stories - we had fabulous Christmases.

I’d be upset too op. A few others have said 9 year olds don’t believe? My 9 year old does. This may be the last Christmas he does believe but for now he still very much believes!

Regardless of whether a 9 year old should believe or not. It wasn’t your neighbours place. I’d be pissed too.

@Fink

But Father Christmas doesn't exist. You're angry with your neighbour for refusing to lie to your child. How bizarre. Can you think of any other area of life where you would actively encourage another adult to be deliberately untruthful with your child? If you want to make up stories with your child and play a make believe game together, that's your choice, but you surely can't expect every other person your child comes into contact with to play along.

The adult didnt need to say anything at all!!

I wonder though - would ppl be cross if the neighbour was say from a different background (Indian for instance) meaning FC was simply not a thing in his culture?
It is ultimately a lie. A lie that collectively a lot of people choose to perpetuate but I don't see why everyone should be forced to go along with it to be honest. I would probably be more tactful than the neighbour but if a kid asks me directly about FC I'll certainly not lie (though I may try to avoid a direct answer if I can).
I never really believed in FC (found out it wasn't real when I was 5) and Christmas was still a fantastic and magical time. The myth of FC has many downsides including making poorer communities feel guilty. Id be in favour of keeping the stories but as stories, not truth!
Also - just like a pp - I cannot think of lies I would be telling my kids. At times I avoid a direct answer and let them believe what they want (FC, religion) but as a general rule no I don't lie to them.

I wonder though - would ppl be cross if the neighbour was say from a different background (Indian for instance) meaning FC was simply not a thing in his culture?

yes i'd still be cross and i'd expect him to be cross if I told his kids that Ganesha was fake etc.

I can happily have my own views and indeed even debate these adult to adult but it's not my job to go around telling other peoples DC what to believe - whatever culture they or I are.

Dingledragon, you are the voice of reason.

A boy in my sons class told him this recently I was so upset but I’ve told my son if he doesn’t believe then Santa won’t bring him anything. I’m just going to keep the magic as alive as I can in my home

My friend's husband did exactly the same to my 5 year old. And then mocked us when we tried to repair the damage.

The neighbour was totally out of order as it is not ok to meddle in other peoples' childrens' beliefs and experiences (unless they are harmful obviously). My 9 year old still absolutely believes. My 7 year old writes to fairies and gets mail back and totally believes. I love that they still have this innocence and live in a world where magic exists for them. Goodness knows shit gets real soon enough!

I doubt such a man would be enlightened by anything you could say to him. I'd probably tell my son that different people have different beliefs and there is no proof that Santa isn't real. Also, kudos to your son for holding his own!

@mummakat

A boy in my sons class told him this recently I was so upset but I’ve told my son if he doesn’t believe then Santa won’t bring him anything. I’m just going to keep the magic as alive as I can in my home

Why would you tell your son that Santa won't bring him anything if he doesn't believe? That's horrible, worse than the myth itself. You presumably receive presents and I'm sure you don't believe in Santa.

Regarding the neighbour, none of us were present at the conversation but I imagine he was rather put on the spot and said what came into his head, then didn't stop. I'd be interested to hear his side of things - from him, not hearsay - but that won't happen. However it surely isn't a hanging offence.