To think it's a straight choice between keeping your parents and grandparents safe and "a normal Christmas". You can't have both.

[PrincessNutNuts]

If members of your household go to work/school/the gym/the pub/ the shops or anywhere indoors with other people,

And if you don't all self-isolate for 14 days before Christmas,

Then you risk giving Covid to your parents and grandparents if you mix with them indoors during those 5 days.

That's just a fact isn't it?

YANBU Yes, you will be risking unknowingly endangering your loved ones,

YABU ???

Yes, I agree, although it does depend a lot on the ages and state of health of those parents and grandparents. A healthy 60 something might quite reasonably decide to take the risk.

Yes, there are risks if people mix but not all grandparents are elderly. My parents became grandparents in their 50s, working full time and fit and healthy. Yes, a greater risk of Covid complications than a 25 year old but far from old and frail.

I am over 60 myself and my DPs are in their late 80s, they are happy to make the decision for themselves, should I refuse to see them? .

The vast majority of the volunteers at our local outreach project, looking after street sleepers and vulnerable adults are also over 60 - should we stop volunteering? . There are no 'paid' employees doing this role .....

Well, I can’t not go to work of self isolate in the run up to Christmas and I will be having family round, including my dad although he comes round on a Saturday for dinner anyway.

It’s up to my family members if they don’t want to come but my doors open.

My parents are my childcare bubble. They, of necessity spend lots of time with me and 2 dcs (school age). They have made it clear that they see this as preferable to not seeing us for what is going to be over a year in the end so we'll spend Xmas together 'as normal' because it's not increasing the risk any further when they seem them most days anyway.

It's also a fact that many parents and grandparents are still going to work / the shops / the gym / doing child care etc.

It's impossible to lump huge swathes of people into one group. People need to engage their brains and consider the risks they take and the guidelines that have been set out.

It's not really a case of being unreasonable or not.

YABU as it depends on a lot more factors.

My DS is reception age and goes to school. My other DC is in nursery three days a week. Otherwise we don't do anything considered a risk. The risk to my parents, both in their 60's, is very minimal. Tiny in fact.

yes I agree.

But I do think you can analyse risk.

For example, to date my dds' school has had 2 cases, neither in their year groups and both over 2 weeks ago.
Ds' school has had 4 cases, none in his year group, and all over a week ago.

Dh and I work from home.

Christmas is 7 days after the end of term, long enough for any further cases to be reported, and for any initial symptoms to emerge.

So, while I might go shopping. (groceries all delivered online) I will be wearing mask, and SD. I think that it is probably safe to say that we will not pass it on to my parents.

So, it is a risk, but a calculated risk, which I think they are prepared to take.

Unless they never leave the house or have carers in then they are still at risk. It's not black and white much as people would like it to be.

Well I'm a 55 year old grandparent of 3 and have been and will be seeing my family. My choice and risk assessment to make thank you. I also work full time in a city centre. I'm a little sick of being patronised to be honest

Make your choices that suit you and your family and leave others to make theirs

It is but my mil is a widower and therefore forms part of our bubble. She come for dinner twice a week and pops in in between. She is so bloody lonely without her usual social clubs and especially now the weather is so dark and miserable every day feels like a long day.
I think she would honestly rather be part of our day to day lives than stay at home alone and protected.

In theory yes, but I'm leaving it up to them to decide if they want to risk it. I will minimise risk where possible but I feel my parents and grandparents have earned the right to decide if they want to risk Christmas or not.

Of course. In life there are risks.

People need to decide what risks are worth taking. As long as no one is pushed into taking a risk they are not happy with, I don’t see a problem.

My DF has health conditions so we haven’t seen his since this all started and won’t be over Christmas. We will see other relatives.

I saw elderly relatives over the summer (80s and 90s). If they wanted to meet at Christmas we would definitely discuss it and the most important consideration would be their views on the matter.

Yabu

Lots of grandparents (yes even those in their 80s) are able to analyse risk and decide for themselves. A year of not seeing family is a long time if you’re elderly. housebound and living with a partner with dementia. Plus many have carers in every day anyway, who are mixing between households daily. So we are expected to deny them a Christmas with family?

Completely agree with steppemum. A calculated, low risk, which you can make pretty low if you're not working out of the home.

There have been no cases in my DS school at all. One look at the threads on here about who in a household has caught it when one member has tested positive (there's an active thread right now!) shows the risk can be very very small.

Every year I risk picking up flu or another bug & if I see elderly relatives, giving it to them.
The bug this year is more dangerous, but there were always > 0 risk of passing on some random dangerous bug.

The answer to OP is YANBU every year not just in 2020.

In meantime, Life is for living. Is all I'm saying.

Totally agree with you.

I am saddened by how selfish people are and it has all come to the forefront during this time.

Yanbu and that is why we won't be seeing my parents at xmas (despite them living within walking distance). If it's dry then we will do a distanced meet up in the garden. We won't be seeing MIL either. We have a child at school and so we pose a risk to them.

All these people talking about their families falling out because they can't decide which 3 households baffles me. Aren't ANY of them elderly or vulnerable?

Read the article entitled
'a room, a bar and a classroom'

Everything we do right now carries a risk. However our risk is partly mitigated in certain situations and with certain PPE etc. Families in rooms together for long periods of time are exposing themselves in a significant way. It's whether you think the risk is justified, isn't it?

I personally don't think it's a risk I can justify, and I've had coronavirus last week so should, if anyone is, be low risk. Who knows?

None of the three households for our Christmas have any vulnerable or elderly people.

I DISAGREE my mum is 90 she obviously is at risk of covid and many other diseases that could kill her she wants to spend Christmas with me she knows the risks she also knows she obviously in her last few years that her right to make that decision.

Nobody in my three households is "elderly or vulnerable", including my parents.

It's not black and white and all this classic MN pearl clutching is exhausting.

YABU. It’s up to the individual to make a decision on the risk they are willing to take. My DP’s are both in their 70’s and they both have chronic illnesses. However, my DDad is still working outside the home and mixing with colleagues a lot younger and healthier than him. He’s chosen to carry on because he doesn’t want to be stuck in the house, says he has to die someday and doesn’t want to spend what could be his last years not living his life the way he wants to. I wasn’t particularly supportive of this attitude earlier in the year but now I think fair play to him for living his life the way he chooses to. If he (and my DMum) are happy to see me then I’m happy to see them, simple as.

I agree with the 'It's not black and white' brigade. My 82yo MIL is desperate to see us at Christmas and is happy to take the risk. I don't feel I can say no, but I also won't lock my children up inside for a week before she comes to visit. If she felt the slightest bit reticent then of course we would do a Zoom Christmas and wait until she is vaccinated to see her properly. But life is not that simple.

On the other hand my friend's mother is not in the best of health and has told her that she only wants to meet up outside. Fair enough. I think the most vulnerable get to make the choice.

The difficulty is when people's decision to take risks harms other people. You can't say you have assessed the risk when your behaviour impacts other people.