To think it's a straight choice between keeping your parents and grandparents safe and "a normal Christmas". You can't have both.

[PrincessNutNuts]

If members of your household go to work/school/the gym/the pub/ the shops or anywhere indoors with other people,

And if you don't all self-isolate for 14 days before Christmas,

Then you risk giving Covid to your parents and grandparents if you mix with them indoors during those 5 days.

That's just a fact isn't it?

YANBU Yes, you will be risking unknowingly endangering your loved ones,

YABU ???

We are planning our usual day with siblings and their families and our DPs
Other people can do what they wish

My grandma is in a home, she doesn't want her life extending being kept away from us, she's said for the last few years she's ready now. I wish she could come out for Christmas, it'll probably be her last.

I'm pretty careful when it comes to Covid and all that but it amazes me how some people seem adamant that Covid is the only thing that matters right now. It doesn't matter about anything else apparently.

My grandparents died in hospital in their own. My FIL had to be moved quickly to a hospice in order for MIL, Dh and BIL could see him just before he died. Even then only one could be with him at the very end.

I have a very personal and outing account of one grandparent and her death. What I can say for now is that I am very glad that on the day of her death some of our close family finally agreed to her breaking the rules and spending the afternoon with her, laughing, talking and drinking with those she loved after months on her own in her small bungalow. The 'illegal' meeting didn't kill her, an unknown bleed to her brain did that no one knew about. But I am so so grateful that on that day she spent the day happier than she'd been for months - fortunately she never regained consciousness so didn't know that she died on her own in a hospital ward. The last thing she'll have known was being surrounded by her family at last. Breaking the rules that day meant my nana didn't died alone, lonely and sad in her living room.

she doesn't want her life extending being kept away from us

As tragic as this is, the question is more 'would she prefer missing one day to dying of Covid?'. It is not a good death, as deaths go.

It is not a good death, as deaths go.

Plenty of deaths aren’t good. I’ve had relatives die of cancer and heart attacks. They were pretty atrocious.

My husband had a heart attack right in front of me. In 2006 He was driving the car at the time and i was in the passenger seat. He survived thankfully. And is still here. But yes pretty horrific to watch.

I think it’s about how you do it. We are seeing parents but they are basically self isolating and we both wfh and have taken DC out of nursery early. So any risk is very minimal.

At other end of spectrum, I agree that good out to pubs and then seeing grandparents on Christmas Day is risky (in my view at least). But it is up to individuals to decide the risk they want to take imo. Just because I wouldn’t do it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t

Plenty of deaths aren’t good

Very true. I'm not sure why you wouldn't avoid if you could, though. Covid seems particularly unpleasant relative to other common causes of death among the very elderly.

Except it's not "just one day" it's around 9 months for people who have been under the harshest restrictions.

@5863921l

Plenty of deaths aren’t good

Very true. I'm not sure why you wouldn't avoid if you could, though. Covid seems particularly unpleasant relative to other common causes of death among the very elderly.

Imagine being the person who put their own mum, dad, grandma or grandad in the hospital, stuck on a trolley in a corridor because of winter over-crowding, struggling to breathe for weeks, wondering if they were going to live or die...

PrincessNutsNuts Oh shut up, honestly.

My MIL has insisted in seeing my dc weekly since July and we will see her indoors for 2-3hrs at Xmas. It’s her decision. Her risk to take. She’s a 70yr old retired HCP and can evaluate her own risk.

My DP can also evaluate their own risk and have decided to see us only outdoors for a socially distant walk.

Imagine being the person who put their own mum, dad, grandma or grandad in the hospital, stuck on a trolley in a corridor because of winter over-crowding, struggling to breathe for weeks, wondering if they were going to live or die...

Imagine telling your distraught 90 year old grandma who has just lost her husband and nearly died herself in July without having seen her family for months that she can’t see her family at Christmas as she so desperately wants because Covid.

wecan

💐

Imagine saying "dont kill granny" to a child and then Granny does end up in hospital That child will blame themselves.

Deeply DEEPLY sick

@MercyBooth

Imagine saying "dont kill granny" to a child and then Granny does end up in hospital That child will blame themselves.

Deeply DEEPLY sick

I do wonder what grandads have done when no one wants to save them

Yeah the poor sods

From Dr Linda Dykes:

@PrincessNutNuts

From Dr Linda Dykes:

Why are you just repeating the same thing in various forms? No one is making you mix at Christmas. It’s entirely up to you to make the decision that best suits your circumstance. Leave everyone else to do the same, within the rules we have been given.

@WeCanFlyHigher

Is that just a long-winded way of saying "Shut up"?

[quote PrincessNutNuts]@WeCanFlyHigher

Is that just a long-winded way of saying "Shut up"?
[/quote]
Yes.

Being prepared to gamble with the lives of their own loved ones does seem to make people short-tempered.

PrincessNutNuts Why don’t you give people some credit?

Honestly, folk like you make me sick.

@PrincessNutNuts

Being prepared to gamble with the lives of their own loved ones does seem to make people short-tempered.

Are you genuinely saying you would tell your 90 year old grandmother, who lost her husband of 65 years in February, and who only just survived serious illness in July having not seen her family for months, who is lonely and depressed and desperate to spend what is likely to be her last Christmas with her family, that she has to spend it alone? If so, there’s probably no point engaging with you further as we are very very different people.

PrincessNutsNuts Remind me, are you completely alone this Christmas?