Is this everyday sexism or am I being ludicrous?!

[harriethoyle]

Getting married (covid allowing) soon - very small ceremony. We have to apply for our marriage schedule and, on it, my DF is ie Tom Smith and I am Tina Jones formerly known as Jones. We are both divorced. I did not change my name first time around so have only ever been Jones my whole life.

This has really irrationally annoyed me! The assumption is because I was married before and am female, I changed my name but that assumption isn't applied to him. I rang the registrar and pointed this out. She said "It's because you're divorced." I said "we are both divorced. Why is he Tom Smith and I am Tina Jones formerly known as Jones when I have only EVER been Jones." She said "Well that's just the way the system works." I said "It's inappropriate to assume that I changed my name and it's incorrect to imply that I have." And she was completely perplexed by what the issue was.

When I told her that I wanted an email address so I could register my pleasure (I suspect she thinks me a Karen), she went off and checked with the senior registrar and then said that she COULD change it, despite having said it was the way the system worked. So now we are Tom Smith and Tina Jones. Which is correct!

Let's be honest, it's the tiniest blow ever struck against the patriachy but was I right to challenge what I saw as everyday sexism?

YABU - what a thing to expend energy on

YANBU - smash the patriachy one tiny blow at a time!

@Possums4evr

The use of "Karen" that many feminists object to is its use by men to refer to any middle aged woman who they don't want to fuck.

And its use by other women, which is even worse in a way.

@Possums4evr

If your anti racism requires sexism it is pretty limited. I've had enough of the idea that rights for one group of people involve throwing another under the bus.

Yes, exactly.

Ugh, this ‘Karen’ insult is fucking abysmal

Black people are feeling increasingly emboldened to film and post their experiences on social media and if that means using the term Karen/Chad as a hashtag to garner notice then surely that’s a good thing? The filming of this behaviour is a game changer, and many people hate this. It’s much harder to pretend there is no racism when it’s captured forever on film.

The filming of this behaviour is a game changer

It is indeed

@Meraas The OP wasn't about racism. It was about a wedding and name change situation, where nobody's skin colour was mentioned, which is evidence enough in itself that the Karen thing is no longer what you're claiming it is. It's an all-round insult for any woman who speaks up for herself or who you don't like. Go ahead and film racist incidents but it doesn't change the fact that Karen is now being used as an all-purpose misogynist thing, regardless of what you're claiming.

Well use words like fucking idiot and not a person’s name. It must be shit for people who are actually called Karen

(In relation to the racist woman in the park in America, who went ballistic at he birdwatching bloke)

But yes, this OP isn’t about racism....

@Meraas The OP wasn't about racism. It was about a wedding and name change situation, where nobody's skin colour was mentioned, which is evidence enough in itself that the Karen thing is no longer what you're claiming it is. It's an all-round insult for any woman who speaks up for herself or who you don't like. Go ahead and film racist incidents but it doesn't change the fact that Karen is now being used as an all-purpose misogynist thing, regardless of what you're claiming

It doesn’t matter what the OP is about, discussions evolve and my post above said how the Karen meme has created a movement of black people sharing their experiences of racist behaviour. If you put aside your own hurt feelings for a bit, you will see this is a positive thing for BAME people.

Well done for completely missing the point.

Spoken like a true Karen. Thanks. It will not happen in my lifetime, but at least now we have smart phones. Thank goodness for that. White women screaming about being called 'Karen' will never fail to amuse me. And yes there are Black women called 'Karen'. In fact there are whole Black women that will deny racism even exists. Kemi Badenoch is a god send to the tories. An agent within!

All that said, I do think that whilst it is coming very late - Black women are learning to be weary of so-called white feminists. I've been banging on about this for years (and on Mumsnet aswell). I should give up and just go back to the threads about wayward MiLs!

I think it's great that black people are filming and sharing their experience on social media, it drives home how prevalent racism is. I think it's terrible if the #Karen is used. It implies that most racists are middle aged women. Think of a better #. I agree with people saying that promoting the rights of one group shouldn't involve kicking another group under the bus. Also agree that the Karen insult is much wider than this now and used to silence women. Some people seem to hate women over 50.

@harriethoyle Apologies your thread was somewhat very derailed. If you wanna be Jones then so be it. Congrats on your engagement!

Spoken like a true Karen.

Spoken like a true misogynist.

Amazing how some women really are determined to hate other women.

"Hurt feelings" is belittling of women's experience of sexism, and on a day when we are supposed to be thinking about how to eliminate violence against women.
I'm sure the rich white men who run the world are chortling over arguments between black and white women. Doesn't touch them.

[quote harriethoyle]@MiniMum97 yes it is[/quote]
Umm is it though. Karen is everywhere. I've never heard Kevin used and neither has anyone on this thread.

Sounds like it was made up just to make Karen sound less misogynistic.

Regardless the word Karen is being used everywhere incessantly as away to shut women down. It's pretty overt and disgusting misogyny and would hope that women could see this and not buy into it.

(I suspect she thinks me a Karen)

YANBU about the name thing, but the registrar won't be able to change it.

YABU for the Karen reference since it is everyday sexism, ageism and classism rolled into one handy word.

The vast majority of woman change there name men don't so it's a perfectly reasonable assumption .

Gingerkittycat - OP has said the senior registrar did change it!
It might be common but there's still no reason to not offer the option.

If your anti racism requires sexism it is pretty limited. I've had enough of the idea that rights for one group of people involve throwing another under the bus.

This statement a million times over.

I hate my name, the name my Mum, who I love to bits, chose for me. I hate that not only am I shut down because of my age and sex, but now it's implied that I'm racist. Thanks for that. Thanks to the people on this thread who are perpetuating this shit.
Although bigger thanks to the majority who are calling it out.

I know several of them are very unhappy about this trend

Is one of them the friend writing the research paper on the abuse of 'Karens"? Did this friend also do a research paper on the impact on white WC women over the use of Tracey and Sharon?

And in general, when white men appropriate a term from black women and use it to abuse women do you think black women should meekly surrender it and find a new term or should you be making your case to the men who use it misogynistically?

The targets of your complaints should be the men. Not other women.

@rwalker

The vast majority of woman change there name men don't so it's a perfectly reasonable assumption .

Oh christ. Can we please get beyond this. You are living in the past. Progress doesn't happen until people challenge offensive stereotypes.

I barely know any woman who has changed their name on marriage. Most of them hold down professional jobs and are recognised by their name and want to keep their identity. I see name changing on marriage as pretty old fashioned and I'm always really surprised when anyone does it now.

The fact that the registrars have yet to catch up is just typical og the way casual sexiam is tolerated in a way that racism isn't.

If your anti racism requires sexism it is pretty limited. I've had enough of the idea that rights for one group of people involve throwing another under the bus

Absolutely this.

The OP wasn't about racism. It was about a wedding and name change situation, where nobody's skin colour was mentioned, which is evidence enough in itself that the Karen thing is no longer what you're claiming it is. It's an all-round insult for any woman who speaks up for herself or who you don't like. Go ahead and film racist incidents but it doesn't change the fact that Karen is now being used as an all-purpose misogynist thing, regardless of what you're claiming

And this.

@C8H10N4O2

I know several of them are very unhappy about this trend

Is one of them the friend writing the research paper on the abuse of 'Karens"? Did this friend also do a research paper on the impact on white WC women over the use of Tracey and Sharon?

And in general, when white men appropriate a term from black women and use it to abuse women do you think black women should meekly surrender it and find a new term or should you be making your case to the men who use it misogynistically?

The targets of your complaints should be the men. Not other women.

You’ll find MNers silent when it comes to stereotypes about ‘Shaniqua’.