Is this everyday sexism or am I being ludicrous?!

[harriethoyle]

Getting married (covid allowing) soon - very small ceremony. We have to apply for our marriage schedule and, on it, my DF is ie Tom Smith and I am Tina Jones formerly known as Jones. We are both divorced. I did not change my name first time around so have only ever been Jones my whole life.

This has really irrationally annoyed me! The assumption is because I was married before and am female, I changed my name but that assumption isn't applied to him. I rang the registrar and pointed this out. She said "It's because you're divorced." I said "we are both divorced. Why is he Tom Smith and I am Tina Jones formerly known as Jones when I have only EVER been Jones." She said "Well that's just the way the system works." I said "It's inappropriate to assume that I changed my name and it's incorrect to imply that I have." And she was completely perplexed by what the issue was.

When I told her that I wanted an email address so I could register my pleasure (I suspect she thinks me a Karen), she went off and checked with the senior registrar and then said that she COULD change it, despite having said it was the way the system worked. So now we are Tom Smith and Tina Jones. Which is correct!

Let's be honest, it's the tiniest blow ever struck against the patriachy but was I right to challenge what I saw as everyday sexism?

YABU - what a thing to expend energy on

YANBU - smash the patriachy one tiny blow at a time!

Maraas, everyone should give everyone courtesy unless they are the individual responsible for abuse. You can't fight prejudice with prejudice.

Haven't assumed anything, although I have used 'you' as in you are saying why should white women have that courtesy.

Why would you say 'you' when I repeatedly said that I don't use the term Karen and that it's the use of Karen by black women that I'm not offended by? You assumed I was black.

Maraas, everyone should give everyone courtesy unless they are the individual responsible for abuse. You can't fight prejudice with prejudice.

So in situations like the two black women who were not allowed to have their pre-booked hotel room by a white Hilton hotel receptionist, the black women should always give the white woman courtesy even though they've been treated appallingly

That must be what you're saying Painted given I've never said 'everyone' should be called Karen, as you're implying.

Meraas

Because I am talking about what you have posted. Tbh, if I had assumed you were black it would have given more weight to your argument, but I didn't assume.

That isn't what I said Maraas. In that situation the white woman was the individual behaving badly. What I meant is that it doesn't help to see her as part of a demographic and extrapolate that everyone who looks like her is a twat. It helps if everyone can initially keep an open mind and treat people with respect until they have reason not to.

in fact that they've been able to spin the term so that they become the victim of it,

So in situations like the two black women who were not allowed to have their pre-booked hotel room by a white Hilton hotel receptionist, the black women should always give the white woman courtesy even though they've been treated appallingly

• Unless they are the individual responsible for the abuse. The answer was in the text that you quoted.

Maraas, you only have to read facebook to see that any middle aged woman can be told to "shut up Karen" or " fuck off Karen" if she expresses an opinion. So I assumed you were saying this is okay??

Because I am talking about what you have posted

You're not making sense, Susanna.

Unless they are the individual responsible for the abuse. The answer was in the text that you quoted.

See my post of 10.58

Maraas, you only have to read facebook to see that any middle aged woman can be told to "shut up Karen" or " fuck off Karen" if she expresses an opinion. So I assumed you were saying this is okay??

Why would you assume that when I have repeatedly said the opposite here?

Maraas , we are discussing the general use of the term Karen on this thread and it appeared to me that you were defending it. I don't remember you saying that you were only defending it in one set of circumstances. Perhaps you were too subtle for me, in which case I apologise. I don't like it being used in any context personally, especially as a put down by younger white men which is what I mostly see.

You're not making sense, Susanna.

I'm making plenty of sense and whilst you might not be using the term 'Karen', you are certainly putting a lot of effort into defending it.

@WhatKatyDidNxt

YANBU this kind of thing winds me right up. Some men do change their name, it’s not common but is a thing

My husband changed his name to my name 25 years ago when we married. It was seen then as being an unusual thing to do then and certain members of his family were not happy about it.

The only difference is that he had to change his name by deed poll just before the wedding, whereas women who,take their husband’s just need to change their documents.

Painted thanks, I have repeatedly said I am not offended by black women using it in the context of appallingly entitled treatment they receive from some white women. I am a feminist and have spoken up on other threads about Natalie Connolly, OJ Simpson, Johnny Depp etc

I'm making plenty of sense and whilst you might not be using the term 'Karen', you are certainly putting a lot of effort into defending it.

I'm not being obtuse, I genuinely don't understand the point you're making. Happy to read it again if you put it in simple terms.

Meeras I'd be curious to know where you've got your info to discredit 2olives1onions post.

I've also lost the plot on what point you aren't following.

Why do women need their own specific identity as a racist

Surely someone being a "Karen" in that argument line of thought could just be much better characterised as simply racist

SusannaSpider is making perfect sense to me Maraas but I am finding some of your posts a bit contradictary.

The Origins of Katen - www.nytimes.com/2020/07/31/style/karen-name-meme-history.html

I've also lost the plot on what point you aren't following.

So if you've lost the plot, why are you surprised I'm confused?

SusannaSpider is making perfect sense to me

Could you explain it to me then? As far as I can see I've responded to every one of her points.

Meraas

Interesting article (including the fact that US Karens seem to be older than UK Karens, which I hadn't realised and explains the boomer comment upthread). But the article confirms 2olives1onion's Reddit comment. Yes, there is lots of previous history about white women exploiting black women, but the name 'Karen' wasn't historically used. Unless I have skin read and missed something.