Is this everyday sexism or am I being ludicrous?!

[harriethoyle]

Getting married (covid allowing) soon - very small ceremony. We have to apply for our marriage schedule and, on it, my DF is ie Tom Smith and I am Tina Jones formerly known as Jones. We are both divorced. I did not change my name first time around so have only ever been Jones my whole life.

This has really irrationally annoyed me! The assumption is because I was married before and am female, I changed my name but that assumption isn't applied to him. I rang the registrar and pointed this out. She said "It's because you're divorced." I said "we are both divorced. Why is he Tom Smith and I am Tina Jones formerly known as Jones when I have only EVER been Jones." She said "Well that's just the way the system works." I said "It's inappropriate to assume that I changed my name and it's incorrect to imply that I have." And she was completely perplexed by what the issue was.

When I told her that I wanted an email address so I could register my pleasure (I suspect she thinks me a Karen), she went off and checked with the senior registrar and then said that she COULD change it, despite having said it was the way the system worked. So now we are Tom Smith and Tina Jones. Which is correct!

Let's be honest, it's the tiniest blow ever struck against the patriachy but was I right to challenge what I saw as everyday sexism?

YABU - what a thing to expend energy on

YANBU - smash the patriachy one tiny blow at a time!

Women get wound up by this because they don't want to be defined by their relationship (usually, but not always) with a man.
The reason that they don't want to do this is because you are judged by others and by society in a way that men are not (to the same extent) by your marital status.
It's a habit with its roots in the ownership of women.
This is what irks me.

What was of course wrong was stating only his occupation and not hers, but it does look like that has changed.

That's what rankled most of all. I would easily have accepted that including his as well as hers was a matter of procedure. It was the fact that his usurped hers entirely that stuck so tightly in the craw.

They've moved forward, which is good, but it's disappointing to see that truly repulsive term 'maiden name' still be used! Ugh, ugh, ugh.

YANBU. The form would make the wrong assumptions if my DH and I get divorced as I have never changed my surname, and he has changed his to mine.

didn’t, obviously not Disney, apologies.

I read that as Scottish dialect!

When I registered my mother’s death in Scotland in 2013 I remember giving her occupation then. Would be very interested to know if England (presumably that is where you are?) still records women by reference to husband’s occupation.

@CheetasOnFajitas Scottish certificates are a world apart from English ones. They contain so much more information about women.

Scottish marriage certs with the occupations of the couple and each of their parents plus any name changes of anyone contain so much more information than English marriage certs, which until recently didn't even contain the names of the couple's mothers!

Same with death certificates - much more information.

It's much easier to do your family tree with Scottish records than English ones.

YABU for using Karen, it's not a term it's actual living women's names.

Well done OP, I’d have been annoyed about that too! “From Little Things Big Things Grow” ask Gina Martin, people told her she was being silly etc but other things have happened from what she did m.youtube.com/watch?v=_K_n-x-W7pY
And FWIW I don’t think you saying you think someone else might think of you as a “Karen” necessarily means you use that expression about other women (I hope not anyway)

@beamur

This!

I was really annoyed to discover, on getting married in Wales, that only my father's details were recorded, not my mother's. I had no idea. I would have got married in Scotland, had I known. However this should be changing soon.
commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7516/

Yes its everyday sexism, the options to change apply to men and women equally (at least in England & Wales).

Some of the women who do change name do so due to the unremitting pressure/expectations of just about everyone rather than an active desire to change.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

didn’t, obviously not Disney, apologies.

I read that as Scottish dialect!

Ha ha maybe my autocorrect can hear the voice in my head

@Neron

YABU. Women do change their surnames upon marriage, men do not. Of course they will not assume that about a man. Go ahead and complain if it will make you feel better.

That's right for the masses but there's a growing minority where it isn't correct.

When OH and I marry we are double-barrelling our surnames and both taking each others. Our kids have both of ours.

@liveitwell yep, I do agree. I've said upthread that I incorrectly worded it. The majority of women do, men are less likely to do so

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

Yabu to complain about perceived everyday sexism then use the term 'Karen'.

Exactly what I thought. Using 'Karen' is awful (imagine if your name was Karen?) ), it should not be used in the way it currently is, fashionably, in some quarters. Also, from what I've read, 'Karens' aren't feminist anyway.

You're making too much out of a small issue.

@harriethoyle

Getting married (covid allowing) soon - very small ceremony. We have to apply for our marriage schedule and, on it, my DF is ie Tom Smith and I am Tina Jones formerly known as Jones. We are both divorced. I did not change my name first time around so have only ever been Jones my whole life.

This has really irrationally annoyed me! The assumption is because I was married before and am female, I changed my name but that assumption isn't applied to him. I rang the registrar and pointed this out. She said "It's because you're divorced." I said "we are both divorced. Why is he Tom Smith and I am Tina Jones formerly known as Jones when I have only EVER been Jones." She said "Well that's just the way the system works." I said "It's inappropriate to assume that I changed my name and it's incorrect to imply that I have." And she was completely perplexed by what the issue was.

When I told her that I wanted an email address so I could register my pleasure (I suspect she thinks me a Karen), she went off and checked with the senior registrar and then said that she COULD change it, despite having said it was the way the system worked. So now we are Tom Smith and Tina Jones. Which is correct!

Let's be honest, it's the tiniest blow ever struck against the patriachy but was I right to challenge what I saw as everyday sexism?

YABU - what a thing to expend energy on

YANBU - smash the patriachy one tiny blow at a time!

Yes you are correct. I would have been annoyed too.

I received all manner of snide comments when they asked for my father's profession but not my mother's -I refused I said -you can have both or none and she went on to get her boss who also gave me a hard time -etc

I pity my elder DC that doesn't his Biological Father on his certificate never mind even know his profession -also what about if your F was a prisoner or unemployed --bloody hell such an outdated society. None of that needs to go on the records in my book.

@jessstan1 Small issues are not small issues -they weave and bind our society together and need to be challenged.

Karen isn't a "term", it's my name, and the name of millions of women across the world who are now facing escalating levels of harassment and bullying because of misogynists like you, @harriethoyle.

Karen was a term coined by black people in the US after abysmal treatment from white women. It's a shame that it was hijacked by white men on reddit but the reasons it was coined remain true to this day.

Women can choose to change their name on marriage
Men can choose to change their name on marriage
The options open to both men and women are identical.

The OP's new DH is also divorced, but his form didn't say 'Tom Smith formerly known as Smith'.
It is everyday sexism.
A fairly small hill to die on, perhaps, but I for one salute you, OP!

@WindblowingSW I know that it may be uncomfortable for people to have things like “unemployed” on certificates but it’s really important for accurate historical records. Not sure how “in prison” would be recorded, perhaps there is a euphemistic phrase offered?

Also you can lie, nobody checks.

In this context Karen is a term, it’s a word, a woman’s name, used to describe a concept. The concept is that of a woman who behaves in an entitled, arrogant, rude and often racist manner.

And the worst people for using it are other women.

Yanbu
It's a disgrace and I'm glad you did what you did.

Neron - Actually, some men do change their name upon marriage; although it is less usual (but not unheard of) in the UK.

Well done OP!

I pity my elder DC that doesn't his Biological Father on his certificate never mind even know his profession -also what about if your F was a prisoner or unemployed --bloody hell such an outdated society. None of that needs to go on the records in my book.

In both of those cases you would put their last job, in the same way you do for a retired parent.

As a PP said though no-one checks. My ex caused great amusement at his wedding to new wife when ex-MIL went to sign the certificate (they had both mums as witnesses) and discovered ex-FIL been massively promoted in occupation by them on the cert.

YABU. I use my maiden name still and people regularly call me by my husbands name (it happens the other way round too). Neither of us care.
Bigger things to worry about.

@kness - The term Karen is absolutely apt. The name/term describes a white woman who is entitled or demanding beyond the scope of what is reasonable and more so, they (Karens) weaponise their relative privilege against people of colour - for example, when making police complaints against black people for minor or even - in numerous cases - fictitious infringements.

That it has been hijacked by white men on various forums doesn't detract from its original intention. I have met many Karens in life and all are different but equally tedious. Didn't some journalist write an article about how 'Karen' is just as bad as the n-word.

Ironically enough a hallmark of Karenism is railing against its usage!