To not be able to forgive myself for the way I treated my babies?

[Notmyusual80]

They're 11 and 7 now but when I think back to how I was when they were babies, I absolutely despise myself. Having young babies turned me into someone I didn't recognise- so angry, a control freak, completely and utterly obsessed with sleep.

To be clear, I never did and never would hurt them. But my god I used to shout a lot. And lose my temper. When they were tiny. My first was an absolute angel of a baby, so easy. But I didn't know that at the time as I had nothing to compare her to. I had a really hard few months getting her into a sleep routine and I'd lose my rag if she wouldn't go to sleep/ had unexpected night wakings. I was so obsessed with the knock on effect it would have if sleep didn't go just right. The poor little thing was and still is such a good girl.

I thought I'd be better with my 2nd but he was more hard work than my DD and I think that made things worse because I thought I'd know it all the 2nd time around and it would be easy. I frequently lost my temper with him. What an awful thing to admit. And I'd snap at my sweet DD who was a toddler as I was wound up. One time, the baby had been unwell with tonsillitis but was almost fully over it. He kept waking one night but rather than thinking he might still be feeling poorly and therefore being sympathetic, I got cross with him and was swearing and huffing. It was almost like I felt he was doing it on purpose?!!! My mum reminded me of it the other day and said she wanted to shake me at the time. Another time, I'd had a few really bad nights and the baby woke in the night and when i went to settle him, i realised he'd pooed and I said something like "great, you've pooed,course you have you dirty little xxxxxxx". My DH had a real go at me and rightly so - I apologised straight away. I feel so awful and ashamed admitting to all this.

I clearly remember when my second was a baby feeling really angry a lot of the time, where my whole body would be clenched and I'd be almost shaking. What the hell was wrong with me? I must say, I wasn't like this all the time - just when sleep was going badly and I was feeling anxious about it. I completely love and adore my children and I did and do show them a lot of love.

The thing is, there was so much about the baby years I absolutely loved - playing with them, taking them to baby groups, watching them interact with other babies and toys, just feeling like I had these little sidekicks with me. I'd give anything to go back and be the mum I should have been. It completely haunts me and I pray they don't remember any of it.

I spoke to a friend the other day who has just had her second (3 weeks ago) and she just sounded so thrilled and kept saying she can't believe how happy she feels. She was expecting it to be awful because her 1st was really hard work but this baby is really easy and she just feels so happy. I voucher cried remembering what a snappy, stressed, nasty cow I was at that stage with my two.

I'm scared to post this as I expect a lot of people will think I sound like an absolute monster. But i just need to know if anyone has had a similar experience at all and if so, how they've learned to live with it?

By mother had the quickest temper, she shouted a lot. I still flinch if I sense someone is irritated by me. My love for her is only eclipsed by the love she had for me. She was absolutely 100% devoted to me and my sister. And I loved and still love her to bits. Her parenting wasn't perfect, neither is mine, neither is yours. And neither is the person's who never shouts at their kids. Nobody gets it right.

As a counter point, my mother shouted at me a lot throughout my childhood, I do understand it now as she had serious mental health problems. But it has had an impact on me and I don't love her or have a nice bond with her.

I think it's possible both to find it understandable and acknowledge that it may well have had a negative impact on the children.

The best thing you can do now, OP, is be the best mother you can be, put it behind you and move forward

Sounds like you were very tired and frustrated. We’ve all been there. Don’t beat yourself up, you swore a few times. So what?

Came on to mention rupture and repair. And also that what we need to be is"good enough", not perfect, in order for kids to have good attachment. Good enough means that we are allowed to make mistakes.

OP my mother was abusive. She got angry at some of the things you did but her anger was expressed in more than "just" screaming. She expresses no regret, but does say I've misremembered - there's no way I have because not only did she have no regret, she joked about bruises she gave me when I was younger, as I was growing up. I also have PTSD from what she did and secondary PTSD from memories of what she did to my brother. I very much doubt your girls will have anything like that.

So if you really are feeling bad, then I'd say two things.

1. Forgive yourself. You did the best you could at the time.
2. If either of your daughters ever goes to therapy and asks you to go and/or asks about what their infancy was like, as hard as it is, please be truthful (you found it hard, you're hugely regretful, but loved them more than anything). And please join them.

But honestly, the very fact that you are regretful means it's very likely your girls are just fine. You sound like you've always done the best you can, likely with little support earlier, and are learning from mistakes made. That's what makes a good mum.

@pennypinch I’m sorry you had a terrible childhood but the OP was talking about screaming at her children when they were babies and toddler age. I doubt whether they would remember anything from that age. Being shouted at as a 5 or 6 year old is very different to being shouted at as an 18 month or 2 year old. The Op still gave her babies lots of love and sounds like she is a wonderful mother now so I very very much doubt that her children will have been affected by this.

There stuff I regret from when my kids were babies. I too occasionally shouted when I was exhausted and once I let my DS ‘cry it out’ in desperation as was so sleeo deprived.

I can’t change the past. I’m still not a perfect mum but I try and ficus on being the best I can be. Don’t beat yourself up about it now.

I feel for you OP as there are things I would have done differently /looked at in a different way too if I could. But that's with the benefit of hindsight and sleep deprivation really can make you feel unlike yourself.

Reading your op, I was surprised that your mum said she wanted to 'shake you' when you were getting annoyed about dc sleep. Wouldn't it have been more helpful at the time if she'd seen you were having a hard time and offered her help and support instead? (I say that because I had judgement too when I needed support.)

It's easy to look back and only see things we would've done differently and not all the good things so remember to focus on them too. All relationships have an element of rupture and repair and you clearly have a great relationship with your kids.

I agree with others that the 'perfection is adequate' mantra applied to mothers is unrealistic and unfair. Mothers are human and will make mistakes, especially when under pressure and sleep deprived. There is a big difference between the kind of actions OP describes and abuse. Blurring the two situations is extremely dangerous and damaging for everybody involved.

That comment from pennypinchh is one of the nastiest things I’ve ever read on here, and I’ve seen some real cunts in this place.

@pennypinchh

Maybe you just weren't meant to be a mum? Not every woman is suited to motherhood. Poor babies being yelled at in their formative years.

Unsupportive and nasty post - shame on you.

OP my mother was emotionally abusive to me and her weapon of choice was shouting. Please believe me when I say that having a mum like you would have been like a dream to me. Someone who only shouts when they're at the peak of frustration, exhausted, on their last nerve? And who stops shouting seconds after? That is nothing compared to how I grew up. My mother would find something I'd done wrong, wait till my dad was out, and then scream at me until I cried, then scream at me for crying, send me to my room, and then come and have a second go 20 minutes later. She didn't stop screaming at me as I got older and easier, she got worse. She isolated us from family and discouraged me from making friends. She was a horrible bully at work too - she worked in a job where two colleagues work closely together and that other position would go vacant about twice a year.
The baby and toddler phase is hard and what you say about your husband and mother doesn't sound like you had a lot of support. Abusers hide in plain sight by pretending that they're just the same as normal, frustrated parents. Don't fall for it. You're alright. Your kids are fine.

Sleep deprivation is hell.

I guess it’s better to have talked to them like that when babies than when older and would understand?

@Notmyusual80, you don’t sound like a monster, yiu sound like me. I was so tired for a few years, I thought I was literally going mad. I would horrify myself with my temper and then cry for hours after I’d lost my temper with my dc. My second baby absolutely did not sleep for more than 3 hours in a row until she was 3. The physical and emotional impact of this on me was horrendous.I remember bursting into tears on my mums doorstep and yelling at her too one afternoon. The dc where strapped into the car and I just couldn’t cope with the idea of the 6 hour drive home ahead of me, despite having done it 100s times before.,My babies and my mother - some of the people I love most in the world!

My dc are similar ages to yours, now 12 and 9 (just). I
am much calmer now. We’ve had lots of good times since those awful sleepless years. That shouty mum was a stranger who came to visit for a bit. The dc seem pretty emotionally stable, and they never speak of her. I’m not sure they remember her.

Ignore pennypinch. She may well have lots of valid issues about her particular circumstances, but here is not the place to explore them.

Don’t feel bad. Sleep deprivation turned me into someone who I don’t recognise. I did some things I feel really ashamed of now when mine were babies. I think most parents will admit that they’ve made many mistakes, especially in the grips of sleep deprivation and many parents naturally have anxiety about sleep routines.

Thank you for posting this, I’ve been reflecting on this too recently. I have two sweet boys, but they are hard work, and my eldest has been recently diagnosed with Aspergers. He had a terrible birth that left me a shell of a person for a while. He was the most unsettled baby ever, crying incessantly, sleeping terribly, only being ok if actually stuck to me (and I was surrounded by Gina Ford fanatics and generally felt like a failure; it would have been much better if I had found the crunchy hippy sling mamas I think). When my second was born and I felt so different I recognised the clear and debilitating PND I had with my first. I slipped through the cracks, nobody realised or noticed the sheer torture I was going through. Yes, sometimes I yelled at my baby, but I spent months on end sat upright with him after every feed (he had extreme reflux), and gently singing to him. I fed him through a nasty tongue tie, through a milk allergy that saw 10+ soiled leaking nappies daily, day and night. Early motherhood was not bliss for me. I had a broken coccyx. It almost destroyed me as a person. I wish it could have been different but I did my absolute best. He’s currently being big spoon whispering that he loves me.

Sarah Ockwell Smith writes about being the best parent you can be 70% of the time and trying not to obsess about the other stuff. And that works for me. Sometimes mama bear loses her shit, even though I try not to. But usually for me it’s being overwhelmed by the constant noise and stimulation and if I don’t recognise that and disappear for a few minutes we are all in trouble. And I really struggle when they fight.

So - you can’t change what’s come before and it doesn’t make you a bad parent. Learning from the past and growing as a person makes you a good parent. I hope you find some peace.

I had a wonderful mother. She adored us, built us a magical childhood, encouraged us, supported us, put her self last etc. We were so lucky. But I also had a mother with no family or spouse support, who worked nights, has little financial independence who sometimes shouted at us and was occasionally exhausted and couldn't play with us. Parenting is hard, people are complicated. No one gets it completely right. Be kind to yourself OP.

Pennypinchh
There is always someone vile cowarding behind a computer!

OP. YANBU!

Oops, that was meant to be a report - not awake yet

Pressed send too soon. YANBU because you're clearly reflecting on your behaviour and recognise it for what it was. And you're not the only parent to have lost their cool with their babies, I know I did and ended up shouting at a poor little baby who didn't understand what is going on.we all grow and learn from our mistakes!

@pennypinchh

Maybe you just weren't meant to be a mum? Not every woman is suited to motherhood. Poor babies being yelled at in their formative years.

Wow. What a horrible thing to say. Did you mean to be so rude?

There's a time and place for "no one's perfect" - that, for me, is for when someone is all "I put my kids in front of the TV on a rainy day rather than doing improving crafting" not for when someone is shouting and swearing at a tiny baby.

It's not that I don't have some sympathy - but I do also think that what happened is being minimised by some posters.

Everyone makes mistakes, I know I did.
Please forgive yourself as you were sleep deprived and under pressure.

I read your OP and it came across to me as sleep deprivation. Most mothers have moments where they say things out of sheer exhaustion. Nobody is an angel when sleep deprived. It really doesn't sound that bad.

It sounds like you had PND. It might be worth talking to a therapist even now to work through it.