To think my boss's wife is being paranoid

[Hop27]

Work closely with my boss, I'm the most senior person in his management team. We had a big win recently so went out to celebrate (with partners), it ended up being a boozy night. As I went to leave with my DH I hugged everyone goodbye. The next day my boss was worried that he'd been a little over familiar, because his wife pulled him up on it saying he'd been inappropriate.
A few weeks later, we are in another city with work it had been a big day and we had a late dinner in the hotel bar, with a couple of drinks. His wife called around 10pm and said again he was being inappropriate drinking with me alone. He then got the cold treatment for the rest of the trip, she wouldn't take his calls etc and you could tell he was upset. I am doing the wrong thing? I enjoy his company, but that's it I am very happily married. Is she paranoid or am I over stepping the mark by having a drink with him?

@CovidAnni

He’s being quite canny isn’t he? Testing the water and keeping his powder dry.

Serious, why do you actually think this? Which part indicates this?

YABVU in attempting to diagnose his wife as paranoid.
Your behaviour sounds a bit borderline to me, probably advisable to stop doing so much boozy socialising. Go to the gym or for a swim instead if you're away in a good hotel, better for your health and self-esteem.

In your situation op I would feel most concerned that he feels the need to discuss his wife’s feelings with you, an employee. It smacks to me of the cliche ‘my wife doesn’t understand me’. Even if your boundaries are correct, his are seriously skewed and I would be keeping well away.

This.

Also, as @rainkeepsfallingdown said, have a think about how would you feel if this man gave you negative feedback about your work- aggrieved because you see him as a friend? Would you think “I’m not hugging you any more?”. It sounds like you are blurring professional and personal boundaries and it is not good for your own career in the long run if you can’t keep personal connections out of work interactions. To be clear, I am not saying that there is anything remotely going on here or that either of you have sexual or romantic intentions. Just that the level of intimacy/affection seems a bit off.

I wouldn't say it's inappropriate. I had a job putting through checking over peoples business expenses once and the majority of dinners had booze with them. Boss had a view that if people were travelling away from home they were entitled to a decent bottle of wine with dinner.

If you were a man no one would blink at two colleagues having a boozy dinner. I'm not big on hugs but that would be my Scottish upbringing though

I’m really shocked by the responses here and disheartened to see how many quite frankly nasty people there are on here!

I get that some work environments just wouldn’t go drinking, dinners or hug each other. However especially if you travel lots together that very often becomes the norm. I’ve had many late night boozy dinners with male colleagues.... because we’re away from the kids in a new city and generally its all expenses paid! It’s the upside of the slog of travel and leaving your loved ones behind.

It doesn’t sound like you’ve done anything wrong at all OP, but maybe just try and be sensitive to her feelings especially if you’re out together as a group.

@ReneeRol

You don't get to decide her boundaries. Their marriage is none of your business. He shouldn't be running back squealing to you, he should be putting in appropriate boundaries.

People will judge you on how you present yourself. If you're all over other men, they're going to smirk and make assumptions, if you're all over their husband, they have a right to tell him they don't want a creep who let's you feel them up.

Going drinking with a woman who's openly flirty and touchy feely, he's telling her that he'll take what you're offering and you're not presenting well to her. She has a right to not have you all over her husband or in their marriage.

Last paragraph 🙄 Do you run around the Uk worrying what everyone will think of you? How it "Looks" Hugs to you

Depends on the company culture. I would absolutely have dinner and drinks alone with married male colleagues (I am married too) and have done when on work trips. I would also hug male colleagues. Absolutely nothing untoward going on and no-one’s spouses would bat an eyelid. We’re just a big group of mates

The 1950's women are on MN.

Why in a work context can a man and woman not eat together in a public area?
Some of you have very vivid imaginations.

I hug my colleagues! Some of them are my friends! (I am also in Oz and have been out for boozy dinners and drunk with work friends so definitely no judging there) Some people are weird.

I don’t think you are doing anything inappropriate but her perception clearly is that you are. Given the number of arsehole men who ARE shagging their colleagues on boozy nights out I think it would be kind to not give her any cause for worry even if it is totally innocent

God there are a hell of a lot of projected comments here 😂 for lots of people hugging IS normal with colleagues! And OP was with her husband at the time! I don’t know where everyone is getting the “flirty and touchy freely” bit from. And I say that as someone from not a very huggy workplace!

OP clearly there are some issues within their relationship going on, you have no idea what they are so let him asset whatever boundaries he wants to, you’re not doing anything inappropriate by having a drink with him in evening if away and there doesn’t seem to be anything romantic going on. Obviously totally different if there was a romantic edge to it or any flirtation.

@TheChineseChicken

Depends on the company culture. I would absolutely have dinner and drinks alone with married male colleagues (I am married too) and have done when on work trips. I would also hug male colleagues. Absolutely nothing untoward going on and no-one’s spouses would bat an eyelid. We’re just a big group of mates

@TheChineseChicken how does the “we’re just a big group of mates” culture shake down when some of you are managing the others? What if there is an HR or performance issue? How do you maintain objectivity?

Why is he running off to you and squealing about his wife?
To be honest just knowing that I am making someone feel uncomfortable and causing problems in their marriage would be enough to make me modify my behaviour.
He needs to grow a back bone and tell you to stop.

The fact that he's told you all of this means his wife's concerns are probably legitimate.
You may be happily married, but he's crossing boundaries here.

@rainkeepsfallingdown

I would drink alone with my boss, but I wouldn't hug him.

Drinking is fine, but hugging is a bit too personal. At the end of the day, my boss has to have enough objective distance from me to be able to fire me. You don't really fire people you go round hugging.

As @Notonthestairs says, what behaviour would you model to a junior colleague? I wouldn't hug the people I manage. I'm friendly with them, I can exchange banter with them, but I need to have enough distance to be able to discipline them if needed. I'm their manager; I can't be their friend.

Exactly this. Maintaining a professional distance so everyone can do their jobs properly. Matters less if you're at the same level, but when there's a difference in seniority you have to have the right boundaries.

Some of the replies on this, are we back in the 1950s? There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a man and woman drinking together and hugging in a situation where everyone is hugging. His wife does sound paranoid. Perhaps he’s cheated before?

I think the fact he told you what his wife said is weirder. I think it makes it look as though he's putting the feelers out.

My take as the spouse, who would have been left at home is rather than looking at non existent issues, your boss’s wife should support him more. That said we know nothing about their relationship and it is for him to address with her. It sounds as though he is struggling with that one. Not ideal when you’re trying to do business.

Having a drink with the only colleague on the trip is not inappropriate just because they are the opposite sex. Glass ceiling crap to say otherwise. But I would make sure my drinking was kept to a minimum to keep yourself beyond reproach. Boundaries and avoiding the “it’s her or me” ultimatum your boss may one day get.

Haha there’s no way on earth I’d go drinking with my boss though or hug him, I can’t stand the bloke! Eww the thought! It’s good you have a boss you get on with OP.

@CheetasOnFajitas (sorry quote functionality isn’t working) - we’re a small company with no reporting lines so not an issue. We’ve all known each other for years and chose to go into business together. Fairly unique set up but doesn’t preclude other companies from having a friendly culture

It's got nothing to do with it being a woman and a man for sexism reasons - if it were 2 gay men, or 2 gay women it would be the same situation.

This isn't to do with people's genders but their sexualities.

If my (straight male) partner were out drinking with a straight male colleague - I'd have no concerns. If one, or both, of them were gay - it would be different.

The concern here is whether two people are becoming more than colleagues - this (usually) only occurs when both of the individuals are attracted to the sex of the other.

So a man and a woman are more likely to cross boundaries than two people of the same sex, because they're more likely to be a straight - and therefore more likely to be attracted to one another.

In my current industry this would be considered unprofessional, however in my last industry everyone hugged and if you were staying away in a hotel you would probably go for drinks with your colleagues who were staying there. None of ops behaviour or her bosses would be considered unprofessional. People need to consider that different industries have different work cultures.

I wonder why he is sharing his wife's feelings with you? I think he is being inappropriate by discussing his wife's thoughts and worries with you.

No wonder women have such a hard time in climbing the corporate ladder.

The extrapolation from a hug goodbye in front of all spouses to “touchy feely and flirty” is fucking ridiculous

Also the whole “if you offer it they’ll take it” line when the offer was a hug at the end of the night in front of his wife shows why so many men feel entitled to sleaze on women if that’s seen as an offer of sex by so many

Once he started talking to you about his marriage a line was crossed. Maybe he felt that he could cross that line because of the hugs and dinner a deux or maybe he would have done it anyway. Whatever, he’s moving you into emotional affair territory and if you genuinely love your husband you need to pull back.

As for this being some gender discrimination issue, I’ve never seen two male colleagues hug at the end of a night out . OP can easily navigate professional working relationships without hugging colleagues who have expressly told her that this isn’t welcome going forward.

Like other posters I suspect the boss has cheated before and is being pulled up for breaching pre-agreed boundaries.

Sometimes I think I live on another planet to the majority of mn.

My previous boss and I worked together for 6 years. Never even considered crossing a line, met each other's spouses at work events etc - but we built quite a friendship over those years and wouldn't think anything of going for a drink after work etc.
When I got some good news (way back before Covid), I told him and he hugged me. When he learned a family member of his had passed away while I work, I hugged him.

OP, if his wife is uncomfortable, it may be that she's being paranoid or it could be that she knows more about his behaviour than you do. Either way, if your 100% sure there's no spark or attraction in this for either of you, I'd carry on as you are. Maybe invite spouses a bit more often where possible so she can get to know you better?

Either way, if his wife is unhappy, that's for him to deal with - just be wary of becoming the person he moans to about his wife.