To think my boss's wife is being paranoid

[Hop27]

Work closely with my boss, I'm the most senior person in his management team. We had a big win recently so went out to celebrate (with partners), it ended up being a boozy night. As I went to leave with my DH I hugged everyone goodbye. The next day my boss was worried that he'd been a little over familiar, because his wife pulled him up on it saying he'd been inappropriate.
A few weeks later, we are in another city with work it had been a big day and we had a late dinner in the hotel bar, with a couple of drinks. His wife called around 10pm and said again he was being inappropriate drinking with me alone. He then got the cold treatment for the rest of the trip, she wouldn't take his calls etc and you could tell he was upset. I am doing the wrong thing? I enjoy his company, but that's it I am very happily married. Is she paranoid or am I over stepping the mark by having a drink with him?

@SchrodingersImmigrant

I haven't backed myself in a corner with my logic. I am just done with the game because to be frank this "men are evil cheats" and "women are always right in theese things" is bullshit and this thread bores me now.

If women have more self respect and stop thinking every woman wants their prince notsocharming (and stopped taking back the cheaters), we would be much further than we are now.

Controlling someone isn't ok. Controlling someone and potentially affecting someone else's career is ultimately not ok.

Except you have no idea if he’s being controlled or not. The only thing you have to go on in this thread is that he told the OP that his wife finds their relationship inappropriate. You have no idea if she even said that. You’re just so desperate to put the boot into women - particularly if they don’t work, bizarrely - that you’re prepared to overlook that fact and pretend it’s the wife who wrote directly on here. Or at least use it to have a go at women who do post directly about their cheating husbands.

Your misogyny is showing.

@donquixotedelamancha

But surely you’ll agree that there was no need to include the OP in his marital argument when it was about her?

I don't see that's what he did. As I said before, talking to your mates about your worries seems normal to me and it doesn't sound like he did much talking about that.

So therefore any similarities between the boss in this scenario and the number of women who themselves post on mumsnet worried about their cheating spouses is moot?

I don't really understand this. No one is cheating here.

I made a point about the difference in advice given when a man tries to control what friends a woman has versus the opposite way round.

This OP says nothing about them being mates. Nothing. They’re on a work trip. That’s it. They were at a work event when they hugged. Nothing at all about them being mates.

Also nothing about the OP being worried that her boss is being controlled. Just that he told her his wife think their relationship is inappropriate.

You can’t make the ‘oh but what if this was a MAN you’re all hypocrites’ argument here because that’s not what’s happening. We only have his word through the OP that his wife isn’t happy. That’s not the same as a woman posting about her worries about her husband, so why pretend it is?

If any of my colleagues came up to me following a typical work event and said "do you think I was inappropriate?" then I'd be really confused and find it bit weird tbh.
If they checked in and asked if I thought they were inappropriate but followed it up with the clarification that they wanted to double check because their spouse said hugging me was inappropriate, then it would be less weird because I'd understand why they were asking such an odd question. I'd probably make a mental note that their wife is liable to take offence at anything just in case we meet again at future events.

My boss apologised to me after the Christmas party once. I've no idea what for and decided it was best not to ask

@LolaSmiles

If any of my colleagues came up to me following a typical work event and said "do you think I was inappropriate?" then I'd be really confused and find it bit weird tbh. If they checked in and asked if I thought they were inappropriate but followed it up with the clarification that they wanted to double check because their spouse said hugging me was inappropriate, then it would be less weird because I'd understand why they were asking such an odd question. I'd probably make a mental note that their wife is liable to take offence at anything just in case we meet again at future events.

And if they then said ‘she thinks it’s inappropriate that I’m having drinks with you and is giving me the silent treatment’? At what point would you think they were over sharing and playing up your part in their argument?

Plumper, your post to me seems a willful misreading of OP's posts and I'm still not really closer to understanding your actual point.

The only thing you have to go on in this thread is that he told the OP that his wife finds their relationship inappropriate. You have no idea if she even said that.

Wow. Mind blown. Maybe OP (if that really is her name) didn't really have a drink with him. Maybe OP is the wife. Maybe you are the OP and you are just fucking with us. Maybe I'm you and Schrödinger and we are all just pretending to argue. Is MN even real? Are we human, or are we dancer?

I'm off to bed.

@donquixotedelamancha

Plumper, your post to me seems a willful misreading of OP's posts and I'm still not really closer to understanding your actual point.

The only thing you have to go on in this thread is that he told the OP that his wife finds their relationship inappropriate. You have no idea if she even said that.

Wow. Mind blown. Maybe OP (if that really is her name) didn't really have a drink with him. Maybe OP is the wife. Maybe you are the OP and you are just fucking with us. Maybe I'm you and Schrödinger and we are all just pretending to argue. Is MN even real? Are we human, or are we dancer?

I'm off to bed.

Well, I’m not the one making up that they’re great mates and he’s just simply sharing his marital woes with his pal and that women on mumsnet should really be given different advice if they post about their husbands so nobody is ever considered a hypocrite. That’s all on you.

Maybe he’s been unfaithful in the past and she no longer trusts him. She’s laying down her red lines for him

And if they then said ‘she thinks it’s inappropriate that I’m having drinks with you and is giving me the silent treatment’? At what point would you think they were over sharing and playing up your part in their argument?
That would depend on the nature of our relationship.
Someone I'd struck up a genuine friendship with at work and got on well with then I'd not bat an eyelid because I'd not be concerned. Sometimes it's good to get daft situations off our chest so I'd probably tell him not to worry about it from my perspective, he's not been inappropriate and I hope things settle at home soon.

Someone I only had a friendly relationship with and had only talked about work and polite chat then I'd be less impressed. My spidey senses would be alerted because some men use that as a way of pushing the envelope. I'd probably conclude his wife had reasons to be concerned about his behaviour with colleagues.

@Hop27

Feeling assured that I've done nothing wrong, neither has he. We get on well and it's not unusual for us to talk about our lives outside of work. I'm the only senior female in the team, so often it's me and other men. Sorry for the social brag about being out of lock down, I'm hugely thankful that we are past that stage. And to whoever suggest me heading off to the gym or for a swim instead or dinner with my boss to debrief on a session. Well that seems rude and unprofessional.......more so that giving my team a hug to celebrate an award of a multi million $ contract.

Are the men all hugging one another ? Are you just hugging or including a kiss as well ?

As much as you'd like to be treated as an equal senior ... being the only senior female person you're going to be treated as a novelty ... I wonder if you are playing on this ?

Do you hug all the women you work with as well ?

On another note , I find hugging colleagues at senior level very unprofessional. Our younger colleagues may do that initially on entering a workplace but this is soon knocked on the head as not everybody is comfortable with being touched. The me too movement has helped bring to the forefront how touch in the workplace has no place .

I think "paranoid" women usually have good cause and I'd tell him so. Regardless of whether there is any cause for concern in this case, why would he deliberately behave in a way that upsets his wife? His concern should be for her, not OP.

BecomeStronger
I think some wives have good reason to worry and others are paranoid, controlling and manipulative.

Just like I think some men have good reason to be concerned about their DW's fidelity and others are controlling bastards.

I'm very wary about having an outlook on relationships that seems to present wives as saintly women with amazing intuition and men with concerns as controlling abusers.

My old boss wasn't a huggy person but always made an exception for me and his co boss (just because his co boss was so huggy he couldn't get away with no hugging!) So the last meal I had with a colleague I hugged my old boss. DH would never even think twice about that. No booze as we had to drive but I can completely understand a relationship with a male boss or colleague that involves completely innocent hugging.

"The me too movement has helped bring to the forefront how touch in the workplace has no place ."

That's not what the me too movement is about at all.

Oh I didn't get the #MeToo memo meant no touch in the workplace. I thought it meant sexual assault on a subtle scale up to full blown sexual attack.

@Twigaletta

Oh I didn't get the #MeToo memo meant no touch in the workplace. I thought it meant sexual assault on a subtle scale up to full blown sexual attack.

Yes, it can mean any type of sexual harassment, sexual abuse, assaults, etc. It can be to do with touching, but only if that touching is unwanted by one of the parties.

When I worked in Corporate banking a decade or so ago, where I was almost always the only woman in a team, we had "respect" training which wouldn't have allowed hugging, in work or at after works drinks.

@BecomeStronger

When I worked in Corporate banking a decade or so ago, where I was almost always the only woman in a team, we had "respect" training which wouldn't have allowed hugging, in work or at after works drinks.

If I'm at AFTER work drinks, I don't see how my work can tell me what to do.

The gist of the training was that it's still sexual harassment off work premises and outside work time if a position of power is being abused. Your boss is still your boss with significant power over you outside of work. In the same ways that a film director could request "favours" away from the studio.

@BecomeStronger

The gist of the training was that it's still sexual harassment off work premises and outside work time if a position of power is being abused. Your boss is still your boss with significant power over you outside of work. In the same ways that a film director could request "favours" away from the studio.

Ah Ok, but then that advice is aimed at the boss. Yes, bosses shouldn't hug people unless totally sure the other person wants to be hugged because it could be difficult for the subordinate to say no/move away/push them away etc. But if people have been working together for a while and are friendly, I don't see how you can stop them hugging.

Whoever the colleagues are there will be a hierarchy and in the OP, it was her boss.

I’ll admit to not having read the whole thread (sorry) but my experience of my husband’s work is that he is also very good friends with a lot of his work colleagues. They hug and go on nights out that I’m not involved in but I have never thought there was anything untoward going on. The problem here is with your boss’s wife.

If it was me I'd probably be envious that he's having fun and nice dinners out with you while I'm sitting at home alone doing nothing etc - not particularly worried about potential shagging as you sound like you're not up for that.

She seems bit paranoid, but to quote an old saying, "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you." This woman doesn't know you, but she damn sure knows her husband. There may be a history of these "celebratory dinners" that became more than that.

He should, indeed, be the one putting up boundaries, but since he seems ill-inclined to do so, you may have to be the adult in these situations. Make sure that any meal invitations include others. If they don't, have a "previous engagement." Stick out your hand for a handshake before getting pulled into a hug. In the long run, this will make for a better work relationship for both of you, and set his wife's mind at ease.

She's obviously very insecure. Maybe he's already cheated on her? Who knows. It's up to him to decide whether to have drinks with you.