To have made DH apologise to DS?

[PleaseLetItBeNapTime]

Sorry if this is a bit of a ramble...

I was in the kitchen making dinner. DS(4) has dinner at nursery and isn’t really hungry when he gets home so will just have fruit/ yoghurt/ crisps and be fine. DS decided that he wanted some wotsits. DS is particularly attached to the “rainbow” shaped ones and tends to leave them to the side and eat them last if he eats them at all. We’ve had tears before when he’s accidentally broken one. Rediculous I know, but he is only just 4 and he isn’t generally the sensitive type.

Anyway, DS is in the living room with DH and I hear him crying and he sounds inconsolable. I call him to the kitchen and he tells me “daddy’s eaten my rainbow”. DH follows and his attitude is so self righteous. I asked DH to apologise. He refused and said that DS’s reaction was disproportionate. I said he shouldn’t be eating DS’s crisps without asking. DH continues to refuse to say sorry, saying it’s not a big deal. I did tell DS that DH was being naughty at that point, which on reflection probably wasn’t appropriate. I told DH clearly it was a big deal for DS and he eventually says sorry and goes off in a huff. DS calms down, goes off to play, and is fine.

I asked DH to talk to me about the incident awhile later and he basically told me that he doesn’t believe I should have expected him to apologise to DS. He thinks I was out of line for labelling his behaviour as naughty and he was hurt that following the incident DS said he didn’t want to sit next to him.

I personally think the thought that he shouldn’t have to apologise is a form of toxic parenting - we need to mirror the behaviours we expect from DS and that includes admitting that we are wrong sometimes and apologising. DH has basically ignored me for the rest of the evening and still believes I’m wrong.

So WIBU? I’m genuinely interest to hear from people who think I was who can articulate why because I’m struggling to understand how DH is so firm in his position.

Thanks

I came back here to see how its escalating....and I'm not disappointed. The naughty crisp eater is causing depression and low self esteem! You couldn't make it up !

"Children with depression and self esteem issues have much more going on with them than a stolen crisp. Parents are human, we don’t get it right every time, the concept of “good enough” parenting is a useful one for those who think every single interaction in a child’s life must be carefully stage managed lest the child ends up damaged for life."

I agree parents don't get it right all the time. Which is why, to me, it's important to apologise when we get it wrong. It shows the child what to do when they get things wrong too.

I've always said sorry when I've fucked up. It's an important thing to be able to do.

I can't abide passive aggressive or sulking or defensive.

Eat crisp
kids cries, I was saving that one
Sorry I didn't realise. Let's go and do

That should be that

But apparently it's normal to help yourself to people's things without asking if they're family and if you get upset you lack resilience and are doomed or whatever

Well speaking as someone who had a sibling who was happy to 'share' in that way ie take my stuff, ruin it, then shrug and but give a shit... It's a nope from me.

I hate this, yes a parent should apologise to a child when they behave badly and they should display the behaviour we expect from our children.

Your husband obviously didn't see it as a big deal, but it was rude if he didn't ask.

No one should take your child's food without asking, an adult or another child.

You are not being unreasonable.

Hell, if someone stole my snacks that I had been looking forward to (especially a certain time of the month) I’d be frikkin crying too

@mygrandchildrenrock

Children need to learn resilience, I wouldn't be impressed if one adult called another adult 'naughty'!

He is FOUR. DH took something he life's.

Sorry @mygrandchildrenrock posted too soon with a typo in the mix.

his daddy took something he loves.

Resilience doesn't come into it.

@Dontforgetyourbrolly

I came back here to see how its escalating....and I'm not disappointed. The naughty crisp eater is causing depression and low self esteem! You couldn't make it up !

Self esteem can be embedded from a young age by parents not respecting the things they care about which DH has shown.

"I came back here to see how its escalating....and I'm not disappointed. The naughty crisp eater is causing depression and low self esteem! You couldn't make it up !"

Im glad this is amusing you. Covids been rough, good to get some laughs!

Stealing a crisp doesnt 'cause' anxiety and depression. Truth is, no one knows what 'causes' depression. There is a massive difference between stealing a crisp and living in a home where the adults around you dominate you, belittle your upset and 'teach' you resilience by instilling the idea that their behavior is justified and you have to put up and shut up.

There is research on these themes. Quite a lot actually. If you are interested, look up the difference between authoritative and authoritarian parenting styles. But some of the posters here (the ones refering to kids showing emotion at a trusted adult doing smt they perceive as unkind as 'snowflakes' for eg) may be authoritarian parents. And they may think that they are better parents for it (teach a child resilience, doing a child no favours by coddling them etc etc etc).

And yes - although we dont know what causes depression, there are links between certain types of parenting style and depression. The research is easy to find. Here us one such paper -

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6747480/

Does this child live in a home where he is regularly belittled and his wishes overriden?

Or as his own mother says he has a loving devoted father who ate ONE crisp and didn’t want to apologise because he didn’t think it was a big deal.

The mood continues this morning ...

Oh god OP. How do you put up with him ? 🤢 My father was a sulker, I presume he still is but I cut contact with him. Behaviour like this in adults makes my skin crawl. In my experience, adults who sulk can’t have healthy relationships with anyone in their life. Their relationships depend on others giving in and letting things go to keep the peace. It’s very draining and eventually the other person, whether that’s a partner or child or whoever, just pulls away.

The whole point is - who decides its a big deal?!

The child? Again, children of this age not developed to totally grasp proportionality and self regulation. So child thinks its a big deal. Father has choice to help child towards self regulation. That might go a number of ways. But could look like 'Im sorry kiddo, I didnt know it was important to you. Ill know for next time'.

Clearly none of us know the dynamics in this house. I also dont know the dynamics in the houses of posters who ridicule others (including children) on this thread. I am suspicious that a lot of this 'resilience' narrative is very convenient. Its hard work parenting in a way that is senstive to childs needs and is child led. I try my best to do this... But god, im not perfect. And it is tiring. It would be way easier if I could just control and dominate. It would be even better if I could convince myself that by not listening to my child and trying to understand them, I was building resilience.

@Lucidas and @Jellycatspyjamas - I think you're both missing the point I was making. I probably didn't explain myself properly.

As adults, most of us apologise for things that we do accidentally, even if they weren't deliberately intended to harm.

For example, I bump into someone and they spill their drink. Did I deliberately intend to bump them? Did I deliberately intend to spill their drink? No. But I still apologise for the outcome because I unintentionally caused it.

In this situation maybe the dad didn't realise that rainbow wotsits were special to the child. He took a crisp, not realising that the child was saving it as special. Apologising for unintentionally causing upset is the right thing to do. You're acknowledging that what you did upset the child, and that wasn't your intention. That's what the apology is for, not whether nicking a crisp is a big deal or not.

Incidentally, I always ask if I can pinch a chip off my child's plate/have a crisp etc. And they always share. I just think it teaches them that everyone deserves respect.

I do get where you're coming from about it not always being right to apologise. Of course, I'm generalising when I say it's the right thing to do.

But I do also think you can apologise to someone, even if you're not at fault. You can be genuinely sorry that you've upset someone, even if you don't think what you did was particularly terrible.

Also, if you upset someone, I don't think it's necessarily your place to decide if they've got a right to be upset.* If you do something innocently, and it upsets them, I don't think it hurts to say "I'm so sorry, I didn't realise that would upset you". It doesn't need to be a big deal, but an apology can mean a lot. And I think its the kind of behaviour which is positive to model to children.

Genuinely, I don't understand what's so hard in just saying sorry. It just seems like common sense to me.

*I am adding a caveat. I'm assuming we're talking about nice, regular folk who you have a healthy relationship with, not hysterical drama queens or narcissists who make everything a problem. Just ignore those dickheads 😅

@ClaireP20

Your 4 year old has been at nursery all day long - even having dinner there, poor kid, and hardly seen you or his dad, and his dad eats his crisps and thinks that is ok. He is probably so tired too. Sorry OP, it breaks my heart. I'd go mad at my husband for this. He should be making a real fuss of your boy and doing all he can to play with him and give him a fun time. Does he have breakfast at nursery too? Poor thing.

@ClaireP20 what an absolutely passive aggressive and shitty thing to say. Lots of parents need to have their DC in nursery, maybe more than they would ideally want. And the DC is not a “thing”.

Lots of parents need to have their DC in nursery, maybe more than they would ideally want. And the DC is not a “thing".

It's daft to pretend that there's anything wrong with 'poor thing' as an expression of sympathy, however misplaced. Have you never said "oh you poor thing!" when told of someone's unfortunate experience?

PleaseLetItBeNapTime I've seen your ds is on the spectrum. My dd is too. I did a course called something like 'All things autism' it was brilliant. Actually I did two courses but this was way better.

I did that about 1 1/2 years ago and my dh has just one it on line.

I think it would really help you and your dh to so something like that if you have not already. May help to explain things.