To have made DH apologise to DS?

[PleaseLetItBeNapTime]

Sorry if this is a bit of a ramble...

I was in the kitchen making dinner. DS(4) has dinner at nursery and isn’t really hungry when he gets home so will just have fruit/ yoghurt/ crisps and be fine. DS decided that he wanted some wotsits. DS is particularly attached to the “rainbow” shaped ones and tends to leave them to the side and eat them last if he eats them at all. We’ve had tears before when he’s accidentally broken one. Rediculous I know, but he is only just 4 and he isn’t generally the sensitive type.

Anyway, DS is in the living room with DH and I hear him crying and he sounds inconsolable. I call him to the kitchen and he tells me “daddy’s eaten my rainbow”. DH follows and his attitude is so self righteous. I asked DH to apologise. He refused and said that DS’s reaction was disproportionate. I said he shouldn’t be eating DS’s crisps without asking. DH continues to refuse to say sorry, saying it’s not a big deal. I did tell DS that DH was being naughty at that point, which on reflection probably wasn’t appropriate. I told DH clearly it was a big deal for DS and he eventually says sorry and goes off in a huff. DS calms down, goes off to play, and is fine.

I asked DH to talk to me about the incident awhile later and he basically told me that he doesn’t believe I should have expected him to apologise to DS. He thinks I was out of line for labelling his behaviour as naughty and he was hurt that following the incident DS said he didn’t want to sit next to him.

I personally think the thought that he shouldn’t have to apologise is a form of toxic parenting - we need to mirror the behaviours we expect from DS and that includes admitting that we are wrong sometimes and apologising. DH has basically ignored me for the rest of the evening and still believes I’m wrong.

So WIBU? I’m genuinely interest to hear from people who think I was who can articulate why because I’m struggling to understand how DH is so firm in his position.

Thanks

*Then out of nowhere a colleague comes and swipes your food off your plate without asking.

NOT OK*

If my colleague removed food from my plate it wouldn’t be ok even if it were the dry crusty bit, my child however is welcome to steal a chip or a crisps. The difference is relationship, we’re family, we share things, we steal hugs and pinch chips - I don’t want the same kind of relationship with my kids as I have with a colleague.

My colleague wouldn’t climb into my bed at night for a hug, my child is more than welcome to. What an odd comparison.

If you upset someone, even accidentally, you apologise. That's the mature thing to do.

That’s be the wrong thing to do. You can acknowledge that someone’s upset without apologising for it. You’re not responsible for everyone’s emotions. Can’t you see how silly this is?

Today I went out for a rare 30 min walk to myself, leaving 2 year old with DH. She got hugely upset initially. Should I have apologised to her when I got back??

Complete strangers having broken hearts over one crisp . Get a grip.
It was a mean thing to do but hardly child abuse

Sorry @flaviaritt, but I don’t understand?

That’s be the wrong thing to do. You can acknowledge that someone’s upset without apologising for it. You’re not responsible for everyone’s emotions. Can’t you see how silly this is?

But the dad was responsible. He knew the child kept the special ones til last but took it anyway. Not nice.

@BadTattoosAndSmellLikeBooze

No, OP will do that if she calls her husband naughty and rebukes him in front of the child. The bigger parenting picture is this: try to present a united front, soothe in the moment without arguing with each other; avoid undermining a parent even if they have committed a minor transgression. Discuss and argue later.

No, the bigger picture is this. He saw he had upset his son yet his natural reaction was to behave like a fucking child himself. How on earth do people have relationships with adults that behave like children. I really couldn’t.

My partner and I always present a united front. But that’s because he doesn’t behave like a child. If he did, I wouldn’t be united with him on anything.

But you have no idea how the dad was going to handle it. OP heard crying and called her son away before his dad had a chance to handle anything. She shouldn’t have been a part of the situation at all. She made it a problem by chastising her husband and undermining him in front of their child. The most OP should have done was as her husband later what all the crying was about. Then if she thought he should apologize (if he hadn’t already) she could have told him without their child around. It would still have been his choice to do that or not depending on how he felt since OP isn’t the boss parent.

But you have no idea how the dad was going to handle it. OP heard crying and called her son away before his dad had a chance to handle anything. She shouldn’t have been a part of the situation at all. She made it a problem by chastising her husband and undermining him in front of their child. The most OP should have done was as her husband later what all the crying was about. Then if she thought he should apologize (if he hadn’t already) she could have told him without their child around. It would still have been his choice to do that or not depending on how he felt since OP isn’t the boss parent.

She said husband had a bad attitude before she even said anything to him. A nice parent wouldnt have done it or if they did without realising the importance to the child, then they would apologise.
So glad my partner isn’t a dick.

@ChaBishkoot

It does matter that it was one. Because as I keep saying even if he HAD asked for permission DH might have eaten the wrong one. Had he eaten the whole bag and left none for DS that would be a different story. We are not calling the small hurt child a ‘snowflake’. And DH was called naughty to his face. In front of his small child. We are saying that this behaviour creates snowflakes.

If DH said to DS ‘you are a snowflake’ that would be a bit unkind. But if he said, ‘hey look come on, it was one wotsit. Let’s look for more.’ Or as I said to DS over his Happyland saga ‘come on let’s snuggle up and read a book and we can think about this later’...

Just because a small child is hurt doesn’t mean that the small child is RIGHT. It’s possible to acknowledge their emotion (yes it’s so sad and disappointing isn’t it) without apologising for something that doesn’t need apologising for.

As I said it demeans what an apology really is.

So you don't think someone should apologise for taking something off you without asking? And causing upset in the process? You think it's ok just to take other people food without asking and if they get upset they are the ones in the wrong?

The very least the dad should have done was apologise - and not only after being promoted either. What he did was rude and would put money on it that if the child had helped themselves to something the dad was eating and subsequently refused to apologise for it the dad would have something to say

@Jellycatspyjamas
We’re talking about the dads behaviour here not the sons. Had the 4 year old stolen a chip/crisp no issue at all. Seriously my son thinks all my food is his! They are children it’s what they do.

As adults you are teaching your child the correct way adults behave. Adults don’t steal food without asking. Children already feel smaller and less in control than we are, food is one of the few things that’s ever ‘theirs’.

Little boy taking a crisp off dad without asking vs dad taking a crisp off little boy without asking, not the same thing!

Just to clarify, DS had been crying for a little while before I called him to me, it wasn’t an immediate thing.

DS isn’t autistic, and I say that from a place of education and experience.

The mood continues this morning ...

The idea that two adults will agree on every single parenting decision over the course of almost two decades is ludicrous. It doesn’t matter how kind or mature you are. At some point, one will think the other is bang out of order. The framework of trying not to belittle or undermine the parent holds true.

What if OP wasn’t in the house that evening? There would have been hysterics for a whole hour? Probably not. Dad would have just opened another packet of wotsits.

@NiceGerbil

''If someone takes your lunch away and leaves you hungry in school, make a big fuss. If daddy eats the wrong wotsit, not such a big fuss.'

Yeah I'm not sure.

4 is pretty little.

Learning that it's ok for people to take your stuff (whatever it is) at that age is not great.

I'm trying to think of what my kids liked. Say for instance they had a few jelly babies and black is favourite. I know this. They have put the one black one to the side to eat last. I snaffle it.

It's a dick move. It just is.

I agree. It is just a dick move. I still keep red skittles to eat last - everyone in my family knows this, so if they then reach in without asking and eat the red ones, I would say something.

It's just minimising the child's feelings while saying it's ok for an adult not to apologise. I always make sure if I do something wrong I apologise - I don't get to not apologise just because I'm an adult. I still get things wrong.

@PleaseLetItBeNapTime

Just to clarify, DS had been crying for a little while before I called him to me, it wasn’t an immediate thing.

DS isn’t autistic, and I say that from a place of education and experience.

The mood continues this morning ...

How depressing. Sort it the fuck out.

And therein shows the ultimate futility of ‘making someone apologise’ in the moment. Adult or child.

@BadTattoosAndSmellLikeBooze

But you have no idea how the dad was going to handle it. OP heard crying and called her son away before his dad had a chance to handle anything. She shouldn’t have been a part of the situation at all. She made it a problem by chastising her husband and undermining him in front of their child. The most OP should have done was as her husband later what all the crying was about. Then if she thought he should apologize (if he hadn’t already) she could have told him without their child around. It would still have been his choice to do that or not depending on how he felt since OP isn’t the boss parent.

She said husband had a bad attitude before she even said anything to him. A nice parent wouldnt have done it or if they did without realising the importance to the child, then they would apologise.
So glad my partner isn’t a dick.

Of course he had a bad attitude. I’d have an attitude too if I was with my child handling something the way I saw fit and my husband called him away and interfered. OP should not have been involved at all. She needs to let her husband parent their son. I guarantee she doesn’t get it right each time either, but she’s been given the time, space, and respect to find out what works for her. She is not allowing her husband the same and will ruin her sons relationship with his father.

Yes I think it’s ok for someone (a parent) to eat a crisp without asking for permission. It really is.
As I said earlier DH ate my last chocolate barfi from Diwali.
I glared at him and said OI. And got on with life. He’s a good man and an excellent and equal partner/husband.

If he was an obnoxious selfish family a rainbow wotsit might be the last straw. As it happens it’s not.

Are people THIS formal in their family life??! We are not. As I asked earlier is this degree of formality and apologising over minor things a British habit??

And just because it isnt minor for a 4 year old, as I said earlier, it doesn’t mean it isn’t disproportionate. DS had a meltdown over his Happyland last night. Sobbing as if his life depended on it. Was it disproportionate? YES.

And I firmly believe kids can be taught nuance. If someone bullies you at school, do take it lying down and complain. If Daddy takes a crisp, let it go.

I think people should apologise IF it was worth apologising over. Do we really go around asking for permission over small issues? I am using DH’s headphones this morning. I didn’t ask him for permission...
This sounds like a highly strung and exhausting way to live.

Do Not*

@ChaBishkoot

Yes I think it’s ok for someone (a parent) to eat a crisp without asking for permission. It really is. As I said earlier DH ate my last chocolate barfi from Diwali. I glared at him and said OI. And got on with life. He’s a good man and an excellent and equal partner/husband.

If he was an obnoxious selfish family a rainbow wotsit might be the last straw. As it happens it’s not.

Are people THIS formal in their family life??! We are not. As I asked earlier is this degree of formality and apologising over minor things a British habit??

And just because it isnt minor for a 4 year old, as I said earlier, it doesn’t mean it isn’t disproportionate. DS had a meltdown over his Happyland last night. Sobbing as if his life depended on it. Was it disproportionate? YES.

And I firmly believe kids can be taught nuance. If someone bullies you at school, do take it lying down and complain. If Daddy takes a crisp, let it go.

I think people should apologise IF it was worth apologising over. Do we really go around asking for permission over small issues? I am using DH’s headphones this morning. I didn’t ask him for permission...
This sounds like a highly strung and exhausting way to live.

It’s unusual to me too. But then again, I had a childhood where we grew up eating every meal like this. Don’t get me wrong, it had its downsides, but territorialism over your own plate of food was an alien concept.

exLtEveDallas

What the OP is teaching is that it’s normal and desirable to have a crying fit because your dad took one of your wotsits. Now I know it might be normal (he’s only 4), but actually, by ‘telling off’ her DH and demanding apologies, she is cementing this idea in her child’s head that his dad taking a crisp is the same as a stranger stealing from him. It’s daft.

OP should have calmed her son down and made him see that crying over one crisp is not acceptable. It's really not.

If his Dad had eaten the entire bag then that would warrant an explanation and apology. One crisp off the side? Ridiculous.

It means I don’t do things which are unnecessary and I know will upset them. It means if I upset them and it’s my fault, I apologise.
He’s 4, he won’t feel this way about his special shape wotsits forever. Whilst he does, don’t take them. Simple really. 🤷🏻‍♀️

No, he won’t. It will be ‘his’ pizza, ‘his’ bike, ‘his’ X box or whatever. Because he will never have learnt to share with family, because this is being pandered to.

You need to teach your child that there are things in life that they don’t need to tantrum about.

Four year olds will overreact. That’s what they do. Especially when tired or whatever. It is for you to teach them when it’s not proportionate by not entertaining it. Not by pandering to it.

No, he won’t. It will be ‘his’ pizza, ‘his’ bike, ‘his’ X box or whatever. Because he will never have learnt to share with family, because this is being pandered to.

I don’t think it’s a sharing issue. He’s 4 and is a bit obsessed with rainbow shaped wotsits...that’s all. Lots of kids have these quirks. Mine certainly did, both older now and grew out of things like this.

The obsession is fine, crying because one of his favourite crisps is fine - 4 year olds still need to learn how to regulate their emotions, mum not leaving dad and child to work things out isn’t fine, it’s undermining and infantilising dad which is already impacting on the child relationship with dad.

*knew there would be a pile on of ‘it’s just a crisp’ on this as soon as I read it but let’s remove for a moment that this is a 4 year old and their dad.

Imagine you’re in your work canteen eating loaded nachos. There’s one particularly good looking one right on top and you eye it up whilst scoffing a few of the slightly dryer ones around the sides. (Come on who doesn’t sometimes save the best for last even as adults). Then out of nowhere a colleague comes and swipes your food off your plate without asking.

NOT OK*

Actually I’d say “oi wanker” and they would probably laugh.

Because I wasn’t babied to death as a kid and can maintain normal adult relationships, that don’t require a trip to HR and a formal letter of apology over a nacho...

He’s 4 and is a bit obsessed with rainbow shaped wotsits...that’s all.

Yes, but unless that is the message to him, he might not learn that lesson. The OP has made him think his dad did something terrible, not that he has overreacted.