To have made DH apologise to DS?

[PleaseLetItBeNapTime]

Sorry if this is a bit of a ramble...

I was in the kitchen making dinner. DS(4) has dinner at nursery and isn’t really hungry when he gets home so will just have fruit/ yoghurt/ crisps and be fine. DS decided that he wanted some wotsits. DS is particularly attached to the “rainbow” shaped ones and tends to leave them to the side and eat them last if he eats them at all. We’ve had tears before when he’s accidentally broken one. Rediculous I know, but he is only just 4 and he isn’t generally the sensitive type.

Anyway, DS is in the living room with DH and I hear him crying and he sounds inconsolable. I call him to the kitchen and he tells me “daddy’s eaten my rainbow”. DH follows and his attitude is so self righteous. I asked DH to apologise. He refused and said that DS’s reaction was disproportionate. I said he shouldn’t be eating DS’s crisps without asking. DH continues to refuse to say sorry, saying it’s not a big deal. I did tell DS that DH was being naughty at that point, which on reflection probably wasn’t appropriate. I told DH clearly it was a big deal for DS and he eventually says sorry and goes off in a huff. DS calms down, goes off to play, and is fine.

I asked DH to talk to me about the incident awhile later and he basically told me that he doesn’t believe I should have expected him to apologise to DS. He thinks I was out of line for labelling his behaviour as naughty and he was hurt that following the incident DS said he didn’t want to sit next to him.

I personally think the thought that he shouldn’t have to apologise is a form of toxic parenting - we need to mirror the behaviours we expect from DS and that includes admitting that we are wrong sometimes and apologising. DH has basically ignored me for the rest of the evening and still believes I’m wrong.

So WIBU? I’m genuinely interest to hear from people who think I was who can articulate why because I’m struggling to understand how DH is so firm in his position.

Thanks

I’m with you OP

My Nan used to pinch food from ds’s plate when he was a toddler and then got annoyed because he threw a right temper tantrum.

Ds didn’t share food! (He does now)

I kept telling her, leave his food alone, and I’ll get you something if you want it. She would say “it’s just one!” In which case, leave him alone!!!!

She eventually got the message but she was very huffy over it for a while

Soubriquet That's not the same as taking ONE crisp which wasn't even in the bloody bag.

Taking food from a plate is bad manners unless invited. A lone Wotsit on the side? Fine.

@NiceGerbil

'In this case, it's not like his dad accidentally trod on his favourite toy and broke it - he's literally eaten a crisp.'

He ate the crisp deliberately knowing his son was saving it...

Did he though?

I doubt he took a specific Wotsit out of spite in order to deliberately upset his own son.

Will purchase some Wotsits specifically to see how many rainbow ones are in one bag, on average. Results forthcoming.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

Haven't rtft so this may well have come up before, but to those in Camp 'Just a Wotsit':

Imagine you're at the end of a knackering day at work, and have decided to treat yourself to your favourite meal. You're one of those people who like to save yourself a perfect mouthful for the very end - crispy bit of crackling, perfectly crunchy roast potato, whatever. Then your DH swoops in and nicks it without askung. THAT'S the equivalent situation here, and I'd say that anyone in that situation has a right to be pissed off (and to expect an apology).

I forgot this tidbit of information in the OP:

“tends to leave them to the side and eat them last if he eats them at all.”

So sometimes they don’t get eaten. What happens to them OP? Do they sit there til stale then get thrown away? What if DS didn’t want to actually eat them on this occasion? Does that change things?

@sst1234

Imagine if the dad had written this. He would be accused of being emotionally abusive towards OP by nitpicking and undermining her in front of their son.

This is what you think would happen. However, it's not a valid argument.

Pretty much every time a woman on here starts a thread about some low-level twattery by her DH, you can count on someone to say: 'If the roles were reversed, the DH would be told he was abusive'. It seems to be some sort of universal MN law.

Ex used to eat crisps my little Dc used to eat. He was an arsehole in many ways including this.

Is it because it's a four year old many on here think it's fine to casually eat his crisps without asking first?

Would people on here who are saying it's crisps and he's an adult, be happy for friends/colleagues/family members to help themselves when they're trying to enjoy a pack of crisps, without asking first?

The H is an idiot and then again for sulking. He shouldn't be taking anyone's food without asking, and so what if the child sometimes doesn't finish the crisps, if the crisps have clearly been abandoned then he'd be fine eating them, taking one the poor kid has put aside to eat last as it's a special one is mean and rude and greedy.

This is nothing to do with sharing.

taking one the poor kid has put aside to eat last as it's a special one is mean and rude and greedy.

The “poor kid” sometimes does, sometimes doesn’t eat them. Dad clearly misjudged whether this would be a does/does not occasion.

@Jellycatspyjamas

taking one the poor kid has put aside to eat last as it's a special one is mean and rude and greedy.

The “poor kid” sometimes does, sometimes doesn’t eat them. Dad clearly misjudged whether this would be a does/does not occasion.

why could dad not just ask 'can I have on mate?'

Do you go around helping yourself to family members food without asking?

@Lucidas

Will purchase some Wotsits specifically to see how many rainbow ones are in one bag, on average. Results forthcoming.

Not as many as you might think - I find you get more rainbow shaped ones in the giant worst bags than the small sized bags. Excited to see if your results correlate with mine.

I think your husband was being cunty. He knew your son was saving it and he knew how upset he’d be. And then he took it just to upset him

He then proceeded to ignore you for calling him out on it.

Why did he deliberately wish to upset his son, because that’s what he wished to do.

And it is very bad manners to take someone’s food without asking. Is he trying to teach him bad manners?

Honestly I’d be giving him the side eye over this for some considerable time. Anyone who left alone with a child decides to upset them for fun is not right in my view.

Lets hope that all your family grow up soon.

I think you're in the right OP. I disagree with those saying it's a mountain out of a molehill or the child needs to toughen up. He is 4. Things like that matter when you're 4! If the child was at school or nursery and snatched another child's food you can be sure the teacher would tell him off. So why is it ok for his own father to do it? Much less to then stubbornly refuse to apologise to a sobbing 4 year old. Your husband ought to have given him a cuddle and said he was sorry his actions upset him. Simple.

Do you go around helping yourself to family members food without asking?

If my child was sitting with a bag of crisps, I might take one from their bag - it’s well known in our house that stolen chips taste better, all in good humour and the kids will do the same with us. It’s part of being a family.

And before you extrapolate that into something kind of power grabbing abuse, no I don’t steal their last biscuit or take the food from their evening meal but a crisp left to the side or a stray sweet is fair game.

@Jellycatspyjamas

Do you go around helping yourself to family members food without asking?

If my child was sitting with a bag of crisps, I might take one from their bag - it’s well known in our house that stolen chips taste better, all in good humour and the kids will do the same with us. It’s part of being a family.

And before you extrapolate that into something kind of power grabbing abuse, no I don’t steal their last biscuit or take the food from their evening meal but a crisp left to the side or a stray sweet is fair game.

This. Surely it's a fairly standard family dynamic? I've honestly never heard so much fuss over ONE WOTSIT, not to mention the DH undermined by the OPs superior parenting and spoken to like a naughty child to boot.

@Jellycatspyjamas

Do you go around helping yourself to family members food without asking?

If my child was sitting with a bag of crisps, I might take one from their bag - it’s well known in our house that stolen chips taste better, all in good humour and the kids will do the same with us. It’s part of being a family.

And before you extrapolate that into something kind of power grabbing abuse, no I don’t steal their last biscuit or take the food from their evening meal but a crisp left to the side or a stray sweet is fair game.

That's a different family dynamic to the one in OP's post though clearly.

Presumably your children aren't four years old?

My little ones wouldn't understand and would be incredibly upset, older ones, would be nonplussed and not care about a crisp here or there, but again in our family we don't take each others things without permission first.

Presumably your children aren't four years old?

They have been 4 years old and with more reason than most to be anxious about food and yet they’ve learned there’s always enough to go round, that sharing food is a good thing and that they don’t need a create merry hell when something doesn’t go their way.

Getting upset is not creating merry hell.

But as I said your family dynamic is different to the OP's.

would OP's H be fine with someone stealing food he'd set aside ot savour last, I wonder.

Would OP be fine with her husband telling her off in front of her child and intervening in her interactions with him, I wonder.

@frazzledasarock everyone's children have been 4yo at some point so that's an odd thing to say!

The dynamic in OPs family seems to be a DH who's undermined in front of his small child, an OP who regards herself as being a superior parent, and a child who's overreaction is fully supported by his mum who instead of playing down the situation added fuel to it. God help them when they have to deal with actual problematic events if this is what a 'stolen wotsit' causes!

A 4 yr old cannot self regulate. They just arent there developmentally. If they stop 'overreacting' when they perceive a trusted adult to have behaved badly by them, you have not achieved 'teaching' them to reason and self regulate. You have taught them that if they show that response either nothing will happen or they will be made to feel worse. It is much like 'controlled crying' does not 'teach' sleep.

Thank you Beardy

This is what I was trying to say but couldn't think of the proper words. There are some aspects of behaviour that require a degree of physical and mental maturation - they can't be rushed.

And teaching a child that their feelings mean nothing is the right way to put them on a road to depression and low self-esteem.

There’s a wide road between communicating to a child that their feelings don’t matter and responding proportionately in a way that helps them move on.

Telling the child you can see how upset they are, using distraction or problem solving “let’s see if we can find another rainbow wotsit” recognises their feelings and helps them know how to problem solve. It teaches them that feelings pass and they can cope with disappointment. Children learn to self regulate through support from adults who can self regulate and help the child reflect and move on.

Telling daddy off, calling him naughty and demanding an apology isn’t modelling appropriate, measured responsiveness. Picking a fight with your partner isn’t measured, going off in a huff isn’t measured - neither parent has covered themselves in glory.

And teaching a child that their feelings mean nothing is the right way to put them on a road to depression and low self-esteem.

Children with depression and self esteem issues have much more going on with them than a stolen crisp. Parents are human, we don’t get it right every time, the concept of “good enough” parenting is a useful one for those who think every single interaction in a child’s life must be carefully stage managed lest the child ends up damaged for life.

Yes of course I casually lean over and take food without asking. People don’t???
I find it astonishing that people ask permission before helping themselves to a crisp. And then self flagellate and apologise if any upset is caused. As an Asian person this is so strange and outside of my family food dynamic that I don’t even know what to say.

And yes I have a soon to be four year old. And an older child who was once 4. Same dynamic.
And if they were disproportionately upset over something as four years olds can frequently be- I would have gently acknowledged their feelings and nudged them along without describing my spouse as naughty. This all sounds like an exhausting way to live.

Take food from family that is. Not random strangers.

I would always say can I have one/ some of your X even when the kids were small. I understand that some families don't do this but it doesn't sound like the norm in the OP family.

I also don't understand how taking without asking = sharing.

If a kid is playing with some things and another kid comes and takes some, the kid who took it should be told, you should ask first.

If a kid comes and says can I play with those things then if the one playing with them is all hoardy then they get told, you should share.

I don't understand how people taking your stuff without asking if sharing. At all. I suppose that was the view my brother took when he pinched my stuff. I mean sorry. Shared my stuff from out of my room, damaged it, and was never told off even slightly by my parents. I expect that were impressed at how good at sharing he was. And maybe thought I was in the wrong for being utterly fucked off.