To have made DH apologise to DS?

[PleaseLetItBeNapTime]

Sorry if this is a bit of a ramble...

I was in the kitchen making dinner. DS(4) has dinner at nursery and isn’t really hungry when he gets home so will just have fruit/ yoghurt/ crisps and be fine. DS decided that he wanted some wotsits. DS is particularly attached to the “rainbow” shaped ones and tends to leave them to the side and eat them last if he eats them at all. We’ve had tears before when he’s accidentally broken one. Rediculous I know, but he is only just 4 and he isn’t generally the sensitive type.

Anyway, DS is in the living room with DH and I hear him crying and he sounds inconsolable. I call him to the kitchen and he tells me “daddy’s eaten my rainbow”. DH follows and his attitude is so self righteous. I asked DH to apologise. He refused and said that DS’s reaction was disproportionate. I said he shouldn’t be eating DS’s crisps without asking. DH continues to refuse to say sorry, saying it’s not a big deal. I did tell DS that DH was being naughty at that point, which on reflection probably wasn’t appropriate. I told DH clearly it was a big deal for DS and he eventually says sorry and goes off in a huff. DS calms down, goes off to play, and is fine.

I asked DH to talk to me about the incident awhile later and he basically told me that he doesn’t believe I should have expected him to apologise to DS. He thinks I was out of line for labelling his behaviour as naughty and he was hurt that following the incident DS said he didn’t want to sit next to him.

I personally think the thought that he shouldn’t have to apologise is a form of toxic parenting - we need to mirror the behaviours we expect from DS and that includes admitting that we are wrong sometimes and apologising. DH has basically ignored me for the rest of the evening and still believes I’m wrong.

So WIBU? I’m genuinely interest to hear from people who think I was who can articulate why because I’m struggling to understand how DH is so firm in his position.

Thanks

I think you handled it badly and made it into a far bigger deal than it deserved. You also infantilised and chastised your son’s father in front of him which is setting yourself up for problems. FWIW his views on parenting aren’t less important or subordinate to yours. I’m not sure he handled the situation perfectly either (he could have said he didn’t mean to upset him, but that he thought he was being a bit dramatic/silly, for instance), but I don’t think it needed to be what you turned it into.

I think your DS’s reaction was OTT. I sometimes “steal a crisp” from a family member, and they do it back too. It’s hardly a terrible thing to have done and I’m sure he could have been consoled without a big apology- why couldn’t you have said “oh dear, well it’s not the end of the world and I’m sure Daddy didn’t mean to upset you- let’s go finish the crisps” or something similar? Because, unless your DH is usually setting out to upset your son (in which case you have bigger issues than this) he probably didn’t mean to upset him and what he did was not bad enough to warrant a big hullabaloo from unique son. It’s a crisp, after all!

I think if my child started wailing inconsolably about this sort of thing I would not be overly sympathetic. I think you encouraged silliness by making it into something that it wasn’t. I’d be angry on your DH’s shoes too. You undermined him and made yourself the sole arbiter of the rules and parenting decisions. Will you also be angry if he leaves you to it? I’ve seen this before with a friend and a cousin where one parent gets defensive of their children over all sorts of things, wants everything done their way and then when the other parent has no authority as child runs to other parent- knowing they can play divide and conquer- and/or feels there is no point in trying to do anything (it’ll be wrong/picked apart etc) the other parent gets annoyed as they are “doing all the work of parenting”. I’m not saying that you are there yet (or ever will be) and maybe this is just a one off- but both of you need to be careful about how you as parents speak to each other and about each other. And you need to remember your views on parenting aren’t the only ones that matter.

@Couchbettato

It's not "just a wotsit" though is it.

It's a big bloody man using his authority and power over a tiny little boy to get what he wants, and going the wrong way about it.

Not "Hi son, would you mind if I had a wotsit please?", It's just "I'm going to take what I want without question because I'm bigger and I don't have to answer to any one, not even mummy".

It's made that little boy feel completely unprotected and OP did right by her son.

When a kid cries like it's the worst thing that's ever happened to them, it probably is likely the worst thing that's ever happened to them so treat their responses appropriately, not dismissively.

I'm glad some of you lot aren't my parents.

Agree - it's the imbalance of power and the total lack of regard for the other person.

And why didn't your DH just say - "Oh, son! I'm sorry! I didn't realise you were saving those for last."

All he had to do was apologise and acknowledge that he respected his child's feelings.

Yes I think it’s ok for someone (a parent) to eat a crisp without asking for permission. It really is

Absolutely!! I think this is another example of how MN has weird attitudes towards food.

I often say "yoink" and pinch a crisp or chocolate button from my kids, and they do the same to me - have done since toddlerhood. I've raised mine in a house with a sense of humour and as a result I have very thick skinned kids. They still somehow manage to not steal from other kids at school, because - and I think this is really important for people on here to hear....not every tiny little micro action we do is a "life lesson", "setting an example" or "sending a message" as people here claim. Some things you do are utterly, utterly inconsequential. Kids are stupid. They absolutely have the ability to differentiate from behaviours at home to behaviours in the outside world. Half of MN likes to think that one tiny non-event when they're 4 means they'll go on to behave certain way as adults. but the truth is that's total bollocks - however I can guarantee that a normalisation in the house of "know one can ever upset you and every sensitivity will be dealt with in a melodramatic way rather than being nipped in the bud" will give you a child who grows into an adult with absolutely no coping skills. Play the long game.

*Kids AREN'T stupid that should've said

YABU to have undermined your partner in front of your child. You're meant to be a team. How would you feel if he scolded you in front of your son?

@TweeBree

YABU to have undermined your partner in front of your child. You're meant to be a team. How would you feel if he scolded you in front of your son?

Well according to most people on this thread she'd have been a dick.

But I suspect if the OP said "I pinched a crisp from my son and my DH scolded me and made me apologise" there'd be cries of "LTB" and posters telling her she's in an abusive relationship

draughtycatflap

"I know a mother who accidentally ate her child’s saved sacred rainbow wotsit. She reached down into her own stomach and ripped it back out.

That’s just what mother’s do."

Thank you for giving me a laugh first thing.

Lucidas at 4.08 and 4.28 excellent posts and wise words.

@PleaseLetItBeNapTime ignore him. He needs to get over it being the adult that he is.

I imagine it's a pride thing. He should have ASKED for a wotsit and in this situation, should have apologised.

Can't believe there's been 10 pages on this... Its 1 bloody wotsit, your son overreacted but your husband should have apologised when he realised how upset your son was. No need for you to undermine him, the whole thing is ridiculous, must be more to it, some sort of backstory or underlying reason for the reactions. And don't even get me started on the it's not telly, tv/television thing...

I have a just turned 5yo. An adult here threw away some bubble wrap she was waiting until after her snack to pop.

She was also inconsolable. It mattered very much to her. The adult apologised, sincerely. After our next delivery her other parent saved her the bubble wrap to pop.

A) your DH shouldn’t be eating other people’s food
B) he should have apologised
C) he should have made it right.

I think it's mad to encourage your kid to think he's right for being inconsolable after someone ate one of his crisps, regardless of if it was a rainbow!

I'd have just said it was a shame but I'm sure daddy didn't mean to upset him and he'll have plenty more rainbows in his next bag so never mind. He is 4, not a little toddler who doesn't understand.

I've raised mine in a house with a sense of humour and as a result I have very thick skinned kids.

Oh the sense of humour argument. Because people who think you should have basic respect for other people's stuff can't possibly have a sense of humour

"Sense of humour failure" "can't you take a joke" "you're so oversensitive" these are all ways of making someone submit to crappy, boundary-trampling or disrespectful behaviour of all kinds, from trivial to very serious.

I've also raised my kids with a sense of humour, but I don't think that's incompatible with understanding others' boundaries and that you ask before grabbing other people's food.

I can actually see that if there is a shared culture of taking each others' food and being OK with it, it could be fine. The same goes for any kind of "banter" or other rudeness - in the right context, where everyone's on board, it can be a sign of closeness and friendship. But that does not apply to a thoughtless parent grabbing their child's specially saved wotsit. It has absolutely zero to do with how many wotsits were involved, and everything to do with giving your child the message that you don't give a shit about their feelings.

As PPs have said, the fact that he did could have been recovered with a simple (but genuine) apology, acknowledging it and helping him find another one.

I grew up with parents like this which is maybe why I think it matters. The parent deciding its all cool to do what they like and tell you you're wrong to object, is not good enough. The parent's the one with the power. Listening to your kids and validating how they feel is important for self-esteem - that doesn't mean spoiling them, giving them everything they want and turning them into a snowflake, it means just letting them know they are respected as a person.

@flaviaritt

*It means I don’t do things which are unnecessary and I know will upset them. It means if I upset them and it’s my fault, I apologise. He’s 4, he won’t feel this way about his special shape wotsits forever. Whilst he does, don’t take them. Simple really. 🤷🏻‍♀️*

No, he won’t. It will be ‘his’ pizza, ‘his’ bike, ‘his’ X box or whatever. Because he will never have learnt to share with family, because this is being pandered to.

It's not a sharing issue though. You don't learn to share by people helping themselves to your stuff without asking. Personally I think that shows an entitled attitude on the person helping themselves to other people's things. Like they've never been told no, and don't feel they need to ask because of course they will get what they want. It's a lack of respect to the person who's item it is.

@ShadyBansheeThing

I've raised mine in a house with a sense of humour and as a result I have very thick skinned kids.

Oh the sense of humour argument. Because people who think you should have basic respect for other people's stuff can't possibly have a sense of humour

"Sense of humour failure" "can't you take a joke" "you're so oversensitive" these are all ways of making someone submit to crappy, boundary-trampling or disrespectful behaviour of all kinds, from trivial to very serious.

I've also raised my kids with a sense of humour, but I don't think that's incompatible with understanding others' boundaries and that you ask before grabbing other people's food.

I can actually see that if there is a shared culture of taking each others' food and being OK with it, it could be fine. The same goes for any kind of "banter" or other rudeness - in the right context, where everyone's on board, it can be a sign of closeness and friendship. But that does not apply to a thoughtless parent grabbing their child's specially saved wotsit. It has absolutely zero to do with how many wotsits were involved, and everything to do with giving your child the message that you don't give a shit about their feelings.

As PPs have said, the fact that he did could have been recovered with a simple (but genuine) apology, acknowledging it and helping him find another one.

I grew up with parents like this which is maybe why I think it matters. The parent deciding its all cool to do what they like and tell you you're wrong to object, is not good enough. The parent's the one with the power. Listening to your kids and validating how they feel is important for self-esteem - that doesn't mean spoiling them, giving them everything they want and turning them into a snowflake, it means just letting them know they are respected as a person.

It's a wotsit.

JFC.

When I pinch my kids crisps they say "Oi you greedy" or similar and laugh. And vice versa. I may even chase them in the pretence of getting the crisp back, while they shove it in their mouths laughing at me and saying haha.

I didn't realise that I had to be so very serious and every tiny little incident has to be about bOunDAriEs - I can't imagine what utterly boring households you live in if you use every action as an opportunity to teach lessons/boundaries/modelling behaviour. UNCLENCH. It's fun.

One thing I've learn a a mum and teacher - parents very much pass anxiety on to their kids and if you're constantly worried if you've overstepped boundaries with tiny everyday actions like nabbing a crisp, while you think you're doing good you are actually setting them up to fail.

@Marmite27

I have a just turned 5yo. An adult here threw away some bubble wrap she was waiting until after her snack to pop.

She was also inconsolable. It mattered very much to her. The adult apologised, sincerely. After our next delivery her other parent saved her the bubble wrap to pop.

A) your DH shouldn’t be eating other people’s food
B) he should have apologised
C) he should have made it right.

See I think you're better off helping them calm down and put things into perspective, rather than affirming that it was terribly wrong to accidentally bin bubble wrap away, and that their reaction is proportional to what happened. it's bubble wrap, nothing to cry over, certainly no need to make a fuss and start grovelling

Seriously some of you lot are doing your children no favours at all.

tigger1001

I just don’t feel that way about crisps. I am happy to teach my child that she will sometimes be given a snack and if her dad (or her mum) wants a crisp they can one, and don’t be so tight. But that’s me. People have different opinions.

See I think you're better off helping them calm down and put things into perspective, rather than affirming that it was terribly wrong to accidentally bin bubble wrap away, and that their reaction is proportional to what happened. it's bubble wrap, nothing to cry over, certainly no need to make a fuss and start grovelling

Yes. Some people are raising melodramatic children.

I agree @flaviaritt - and the favour can be returned when I have something they want a piece of.

I'm assuming all the heartbroken posters who think that the OP's DH has done a hugely traumatic thing would also agree that, when dad has his favourite crisps, his 4yo son can never take one from him - boundaries afterall are important for everyone.

When I pinch my kids crisps they say "Oi you greedy" or similar and laugh.

Are they FOUR?

Have they been careful saving their favourites?

Are crisps a rare treat for them?

If you inadvertently upset them, do you apologise or just tell them "it's a joke" and go off in a huff?

Or have they had the opportunity to grow a little and develop the realisation that not everything is quite black and white? Young children have a huge sense of fairness, and also take everything literally. They can't learn what is a "joke" by adult standards until they reach a particular developmental level - and this isn't tightly linked to age (some people never develop it - one way or another).

@flaviaritt my friend has a 8yo DD, went to her house before lockdown 2.0 and my friend had made tea for all our 4 kids. Her 8yo saw that her tea was on a dinosaur plate, was all "ew ew ew mum, come here, look - that's gross, there's NO WAY I am having my tea on THAT plate". My friend swapped the plate out. I was it a plate FFS. And she can't understand why her DD is stroppy and demanding. At what point do we say "actually we are now going to stop pandering to the tiny whims and you'll have to just deal with inconsequential things to at happen day to day" - 5? 8? 18?

I teach secondary school, 14-18 year olds and I can tell you exactly which kids' parents are the "plate swappers" - their children can't handle the slightest bit of criticism (such as "you're late, you need to be here on time"), expect amazing results from very sloppy work and are genuinely bewildered when they don't get their way with everything. It makes my job so much harder, sometimes they've made a turnaround by the time they leave school but some 18yo's leave school that way and it's very worrying wondering how they'll cope in the world alone with other people to consider.

I think the difference is in how DH initially reacted. DH takes something DS wanted. DS says "you just took it, I wanted it" DH says "oh sorry pal I should have asked first, I didn't realise you were saving it, but I'm sorry" then DS either accepts apology and moves on or doesn't, if he doesn't then hes told he's over reacting, daddy apologised and it's just a crisp.
But DH didn't apologise so the problem wasn't that he took the crisp but that he wasn't nice to DS when he upset him.

If I took a chocolate out of DH box while he was at work and he came home and said "babe did you eat my last bounty? I was saving it" I'd apologise.

Kids who are raised where someone who has more power than them takes advantage of that power, take advantage of any power they have. Its important to teach children to appologise and to accept apologies gracefully. Like teaching them to be gracious winners and losers, you always let them win, they're sore losers, you make a show of beating them they're poor winners.

@SchadenfreudePersonified

When I pinch my kids crisps they say "Oi you greedy" or similar and laugh.

Are they FOUR?

Have they been careful saving their favourites?

Are crisps a rare treat for them?

If you inadvertently upset them, do you apologise or just tell them "it's a joke" and go off in a huff?

Or have they had the opportunity to grow a little and develop the realisation that not everything is quite black and white? Young children have a huge sense of fairness, and also take everything literally. They can't learn what is a "joke" by adult standards until they reach a particular developmental level - and this isn't tightly linked to age (some people never develop it - one way or another).

My son is 4 yes. Crisps aren't a treat as such, they'll have a pack at the weekend usually. TBH if he made a big fuss over one crisps I wouldn't apologise no, I'd tell him it's only a crisp there's plenty of other on his plate. I'd remind him he takes mine and his sisters all the time and we are happy with that. Absolutely nothing wrong with handing your children a grip now and again.

YAdNBU

At what point do we say "actually we are now going to stop pandering to the tiny whims and you'll have to just deal with inconsequential things to at happen day to day" - 5? 8? 18?

Bingo. I have a child in my family who has been liable to tantrums and sulks over small things since forever and because it has never been tackled properly she is now still the same at nearly 7 and will feign tears over the smallest things.

It hasn't done her any favours to pander for so long.