"Professional work clothes" are you f**king kidding me

[Wroxie]

Sorry this is more of a rant than a question because I know I'm not the one BU here.

So I'm a freelancer and about half my income comes from a single client. I do lots of workshops and training sessions on Zoom with them. This morning after a 2 hour workshop I was having a debrief with my main contact and he said 'just one more thing, it would be great if you could reflect the business wear standards we present during these sessions' and I was gobsmacked because - no word of a lie - HE AND I WERE WEARING THE SAME SHIRT. The exact same dark blue and white small-checked button down shirt with the top button undone. I also had on small earrings and a little pearl pendant on a fine chain and my hair was in a tidy bun. I would even venture to say that my shirt was ironed more nicely than his - he's generally sort of rumpled looking at the best of times.

When I was office-based, this was basically my uniform - button-down shirt, smart trousers, sometimes a jacket, nice brogues or maybe nice flats if it was ankle-baring weather. This is now what I wear every day in front of my computer at home except for the shoes. Yes, I even wear the smart work trousers because I often stand up to do something on my whiteboard and I can be seen from the knees up on camera.

The other women at this company (finance, if it matters) tend to wear solid, dark-colour tops with round necklines and maybe a chunky necklace, along with full makeup and blowdried hair. I don't wear makeup at all and my hair is natural (I'm mixed race - half Black, half European) and worn in a curly bob or in a bun depending on where I am in the wash-day cycle. So what it comes down to is that my natural face and hair and my choice of business wear would be ok if I were a man, but since I'm not... different standards. I almost wish I was an actual employee rather than a freelance consultant so I could make this into a WHOLE THING.

As it stands, I just said 'Tony mate you realise we're wearing the same shirt' and he blustered a bit and said something like 'well you just seemed a bit casual Friday today is all I mean' and I just let it drop.

Should I wear my 20+ year old Nirvana T-shirt next meeting yes or no?

Ties and cufflinks.

I don't think Tony was wearing either of those, was he? Should the OP still have to accessorise in that case?

Ties and cufflinks.

The guy was wearing the same button down shirt as the OP, with no tie and the top button undone. So... why was he criticising her for not looking professional enough?
That's why people are citing sexism. Because they are (correctly imo) assuming this means that he is expecting women to wear something extra in order to look professional, when the button-down shirt is fine for him. Why is it smart enough for him, but not for her?

I've not seen a man wearing cuff links in a work setting for donkeys years. None of our male senior exec team have ever worn them. Two of our female senior execs never wear make up, one never wears jewellery. It doesn't make them any less professional or good at their job.

Cufflinks are utterly impractical if you're using a mouse every day.

@cuparfull

Trouble is people always want to jump on the "women" "colour" bandwagon..... the client is always right! He who pays the piper calls the tune! He doesn't like your shirt....suck it up!

they were wearing the same shirt

How does that square with your weird assertion?

Different work cultures- all dh’s colleagues - consultants wear cuff links when client facing, always dressed like they are going to an interview especially if the client expects it. Another client Dh worked for always noticed dhs clothes - commented on them frequently - should Dh have assumed that was sexist?

@greyhills

You are a freelancer and self-employed. That means he cannot tell you what to wear. It is one of the factors which, according to HMRC, distinguishes between employees and the self-employed.

Except he can...

Different work cultures- all dh’s colleagues - consultants wear cuff links when client facing, always dressed like they are going to an interview especially if the client expects it.

In this specific case and culture, though, the OP and Tony were wearing THE SAME SHIRT.
Can you explain how Tony considered that he was smart enough but that the OP wasn't?

@IntermittentParps

Different work cultures- all dh’s colleagues - consultants wear cuff links when client facing, always dressed like they are going to an interview especially if the client expects it.

In this specific case and culture, though, the OP and Tony were wearing THE SAME SHIRT.
Can you explain how Tony considered that he was smart enough but that the OP wasn't?

Tony's the client - so it doesn't really matter.

IMO the consultant always looks smarter than the client. If Tony has to convince his boss that you are worth spending £2k a day consultancy fees on then wearing smart business wear is going to add to the illusion that you are actually worth it.

I’d so wear the nirvan T-shirt.

If Tony said it because he had to convince his boss that the OP is worth her consultancy fees (do we know what those are from this thread?), how come a) she’s always worn the same clothes in the office and it’s not been commented on on and b) rather than having a coherent answer when questioned, he ‘blustered a bit’?

It's not like OP was wearing a bean juice stained Tigger onesie with rollers in and a fag hanging out of her mouth is it? And Tony utterly failed to explain what he thought OP should wear. He blustered and fudged it. Because he probably didn't have a suitable answer. If he's that concerned he can email OP a copy of the company dress code for next time. If there's a prescriptive one.

'Presentation is ALL if you want to be seen as professional. Just a fact.'

Maybe 25 years ago yes but the world has changed a lot since then. Few office workers are expected to dress in business wear these days.

I expect the op will decide commercially on how she chooses to respond. Her come back was IMO sufficiently pointed for Tony to not pursue it further and if she delivers a quality service he’ll no doubt continue to employ her services. Or she could decide to report him to HR but we all know how that goes - just look at Boris’s backing of PP.

"Dear Tony,

It's interesting that you chose to comment on my work wear when I have been polite enough to refrain from mentioning your unprofessional appearance. I decided to keep my suggestion that you do up your shirt and wear a tie to myself, perhaps you could do the same in future.

Yours,
Wroxie"

I was feeling all sorts of outrage on your behalf OP, you sound perfectly well presented to me. Then I mentioned it to DP & he reflected for a moment & said, “they can’t see through the shirt, can they?” It’s worth checking - I once had a bra that didn’t cover my nipples & unbeknownst to me were quite obvious during a presentation (ffs).

I should add that it wasn’t a peephole bra lol, just too flimsy material!

I have natural hair and always get comments about how messy it is. Luckily I don't care and my job isn't academic. I'm white so not racist just have crazy fabulous barnet. I think the comment was more of a power trip that backfired. Just ignore, make sure your tidy and moisturised.

Fantastically p-a and political response, Protected. 'decide commercially', 'sufficiently pointed', 'if she delivers a quality service'.
Respeck.

Next time, I’d wear a tie with your shirt as it’s perfect business attire. Maybe go for something slightly floral or colourful that wouldn’t be considered to be stereotypically masculine. Don’t say anything. Then enjoy the misogynist struggling to make sense of the message you’re sending him.

@DameCelia

Hopefully not a derail, a couple of people have almost touched on this. Over the years I've realised that many (otherwise apparently sane and unknobbish) men equate curly hair with sexual freedom, hyper sexuality, wanting to shag a lot, being 'good' in bed or other bizarre attitudes. Where on earth does that come from?

Sorry that's my fault :D

Always natural curly hair and make up only when I want to but I've never had an office job, When I do want to wear it it has always been when I've been much younger and on the pull. I wish everyone would get rid of make up. It's so unnecessary. Heels too!

People can be outraged as much as they want but as they are a freelancer they will have to do the calculations in their head between complaint snd complying. You can’t go to court to force someone to buy from you or use your services. It’s not suing your employer. They’re self employed and the client doesn’t have to use them legally even if it in reality they’re wedded to them

I’d be horrified if a client said something like to me. Can’t just argue back about what they wear. In my job we have to turn up in suits meeting Chinese billionaires who sometimes have eclectic tastes in clothing such as shell suits or a formal blazer but with a hoodie sewn in. Doesn’t mean they’d expect us to. Can wear what they want as pay the bills

The freelancer can’t be forced to work for the client either. So entitled to walk away. Up to them

Wear your normal work attire the next time - do not adapt for this knob - and if he says anything say “ sorry l assumed you’d reflect on how confusing your last request was to me - perhaps you could be more specific about how you think women should dress. I’ll document the conversation too - for clarity. Would you like a copy ? “