"Professional work clothes" are you f**king kidding me

[Wroxie]

Sorry this is more of a rant than a question because I know I'm not the one BU here.

So I'm a freelancer and about half my income comes from a single client. I do lots of workshops and training sessions on Zoom with them. This morning after a 2 hour workshop I was having a debrief with my main contact and he said 'just one more thing, it would be great if you could reflect the business wear standards we present during these sessions' and I was gobsmacked because - no word of a lie - HE AND I WERE WEARING THE SAME SHIRT. The exact same dark blue and white small-checked button down shirt with the top button undone. I also had on small earrings and a little pearl pendant on a fine chain and my hair was in a tidy bun. I would even venture to say that my shirt was ironed more nicely than his - he's generally sort of rumpled looking at the best of times.

When I was office-based, this was basically my uniform - button-down shirt, smart trousers, sometimes a jacket, nice brogues or maybe nice flats if it was ankle-baring weather. This is now what I wear every day in front of my computer at home except for the shoes. Yes, I even wear the smart work trousers because I often stand up to do something on my whiteboard and I can be seen from the knees up on camera.

The other women at this company (finance, if it matters) tend to wear solid, dark-colour tops with round necklines and maybe a chunky necklace, along with full makeup and blowdried hair. I don't wear makeup at all and my hair is natural (I'm mixed race - half Black, half European) and worn in a curly bob or in a bun depending on where I am in the wash-day cycle. So what it comes down to is that my natural face and hair and my choice of business wear would be ok if I were a man, but since I'm not... different standards. I almost wish I was an actual employee rather than a freelance consultant so I could make this into a WHOLE THING.

As it stands, I just said 'Tony mate you realise we're wearing the same shirt' and he blustered a bit and said something like 'well you just seemed a bit casual Friday today is all I mean' and I just let it drop.

Should I wear my 20+ year old Nirvana T-shirt next meeting yes or no?

Wear exactly the same clothes and ask to be addressed as Bob from here on in.

Did he actually ask you to wear makeup?

@Harls1969

He obviously wants you in a skirt suit. Or smart dress. Preferably tight and a little bit short and enough buttons undone on your (sheer) blouse. Oh and heels and a full face of makeup. How dare you ruin his image of women's business dress...

Yes, this- 'secretary' wear has basically become a fetish and he was disappointed you didn't perform.

Love the suggestions to make 'Tony mate we're wearing the same shirt' a catchphrase I can think of so many situations where it would apply!

I think a participant can dress down more than a trainer, that said what you were in sounds fine, although I work in a different industry.

Next time, wear the same shirt with a tie...it will look odd but it will be extremely offensive in the gender stakes if he says anything. If he mentions make-up, act surprised and say you had wondered if he uses eyeliner. I wore make up to meet clients twenty years ago. The world has hopefully moved on since then (I rarely wear makeup at all now).

We really should get it made into a t-shirt...a joke only true Mumsnetters will get. I'd buy it.

@gypsywater

A black man with an afro, even a small one, would 100% be told to cut their hair

I totally believe this.

Sadly this attitude starts when they start secondary school and they must adhere to a simple prescribed cut and often are put in isolation if their hair doesn't meet the standards required - which isn't possible sometimes.

@JohnMcCainsDeathStare

I don't own a pair of heels - never got into footwear that I can't walk in and that damages my kinetic chain. But then I work in STEM.

If any man asked if I wasn't wearing heels I'd ask if they are so great why don't YOU wear them.

Thing is, part of my AS means I value comfort and utility more than image - never got on with pencil skirts or wearing anything tailored if I sitting down all day.

I work in STEM too. On a rare occasion when I wore a skirt, I was told "There's something wrong with your trousers!"

Definitely get 'Tony mate, we're wearing the same shirt' on a t shirt. Or this:
thespark.company/products/sleigh-the-patriarchy-feminist-christmas-jumper?variant=31176649572386

What a day to be wearing the same shirt!!! Absolutely brilliant!! 😂😂😂😂 well done OP!

@bluebluezoo

I got called into partners office (female) for wearing similar to what OP describes in a professional firm. They thought too casual. So it is a thing. Can't offer much guidance apart from suit up

I’d agree with you, except the person doing the pulling up was wearing exactly the same.

If a blue shirt with no tie is “professional” enough for him, then it is professional enough for her. If she needs to “suit up”, then so does she...

The person making the request is a client. They can wear whatever they want. In the Media world, on TV, checked shirts are a no no. They don't present well onscreen. Wear block colour and accessorise.

@cuparfull I mean there's no way for me to know your background but I'm going to hazard a guess that I know far more about 'the media world' than you do, considering the fact that I'm paid extremely well to help multinational corporations manage and execute their media spend, and I'm also a lecturer on the topic of media and culture at a red brick university... (that's probably outing, but oh well). But thanks ever so much for the advice I'll be sure to wear an accessory of some kind next time I'm on telly 😂

Definitely the lack of makeup and natural hair. I don't wear makeup because it a) hurts my face and b) because I'm lazy and can't be arsed spending the time to do it.

I've worn it on the very odd occasion, interviews, that time we had a news crew in etc and people have always done a double take and gone "crikey, you look smart today!"

I ALWAYS look "smart" by the dress code standards. Literally the only thing that I was wearing differently on those days was makeup.

I agree with those above, send him an email asking him to clarify what he means by asking you to be smarter.

Trouble is people always want to jump on the "women" "colour" bandwagon..... the client is always right! He who pays the piper calls the tune!
He doesn't like your shirt....suck it up!

Wear block colour and accessorise.

Why accessorise? What would it add the the content / point of the call. It was a Zoom workshop not America's Next Top Model.

• Trouble is people always want to jump on the "women" "colour" bandwagon..... the client is always right! He who pays the piper calls the tune! He doesn't like your shirt....suck it up!*

Bullshit. He was wearing the same shirt. Just because he is a client he doesn't get to dictate that OP wears a skirt, make-up & hair scraped back.

I'm not black or mixed race but have long, dark naturally curly hair. The only time anyone has mentioned it was when I was working in Tesco as a teenager 30 years ago - I usually plaited it but one day put it in a ponytail instead and was told it wasn't as tidy as usual. I ignored it then, I'd ignore it even more now.

Natural hair is fabulous. If it's clean and colleagues can see your face, that's all that matters.

Not sure about the Nirvana t-shirt as someone will think you are jumping on the same bandwagon as those who have Joy Division t-shirts and could not tell you who Ian Curtis was (RIP).

The debrief was unacceptable though in my opinion.

Its quite amusing wandering around Uni campus - you can almost tell what facility the tutors are in (if you can tell their tutors!) (Social) Psychology (male) in football tshirts or scruffy un-ironed shirts & ditto jeans. Social Workers seem to go for thick tights that matched their skirts/dresses IT looked like they had just got out of bed Sociology black tshirt jackets & jeans - (sweeping generalization here but it was a bit like that )

@iklboogeymum

Wear block colour and accessorise.

Why accessorise? What would it add the the content / point of the call. It was a Zoom workshop not America's Next Top Model.

Presentation is ALL if you want to be seen as professional. Just a fact.

Why are so many folk confrontational. The client wasn't dictating. The OP has a choice.

I still don't get why wearing a necklace & earrings / accessorising is 'professional'. Men don't get dictated to wear it. I'd rather someone knew their subject & presented it well than care about them wearing make up & jewellery. I don't mean they should look like they've just got out of bed obviously.

Dh has a client that is a bit shirt & tie obsessed - so dh wears a shirt and tie for his zoom calls, even when sometimes the client doesn't wear a shirt and tie - it's the client's preference that everyone else does (employees and consultants)...don't think dh wastes a lot of time thinking about it.

Presentation is ALL if you want to be seen as professional. Just a fact.
Don't be so silly.

And pray tell: do men have to accessorise too? If so, how?

@IntermittentParps

Presentation is ALL if you want to be seen as professional. Just a fact. Don't be so silly.

And pray tell: do men have to accessorise too? If so, how?

Ties and cufflinks.

Not Nirvana T-shirt. That's unprofessional.

I think a Hooters one would be much better!!