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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to not let the father of my child take her abroad once a month?

329 replies

tuesdayschild17 · 17/11/2020 04:30

My daughter was unplanned with a partner who I had not been seeing for long. When I found out about her, I informed him and gave him the option to walk away. We did not stay seeing each other romantically after this time.

He chose to be involved in her life and has his name on her birth certificate (allowing him joint parental responsibility). She is nearly 4 now and he has seen her throughout this time with various levels of consistency. His family live abroad and also wish to be involved. I have done everything I can so far to facilitate contact, allowing them to stay in our house and look after her for weekends occasionally and letting her go on holiday to their country with and without me.

However, there have been large gaps in between him/them seeing her where he has been bad with contact. He has either been struggling with addiction issues or just unwilling to be around during these times. I have tried to still remain understanding, believing that it would be best for my daughter to maintain a relationship with him. Unfortunately, after she spent a week away from me in the Summer with his family abroad, I started to reconsider this. Her behaviour was really unsettled when she got back. She suddenly threw more and more tantrums and wouldn't eat properly. The nursery separately commented on a big change in her behaviour and asked if she was unhappy. I felt that this was a result of the change in circumstances and being away from her home at such a young age. Obviously the typical 'we don't have to raise her, so we can say yes to everything' came into play too.

Initially, I was raising her with substantial help from my own mother in terms of costs/childcare. However, since the beginning of this year, I have been doing it solo as a student and with a part-time income. Her father has a well-paid full-time job. Prior to September, I had never asked him for financial support as I didn't want to scare him away from a relationship with her. However, the financial strain of raising her single meant that in September, I asked him to begin contributing. We are struggling to come to an agreement.

As part of his side of the bargain, he wants me to agree to her travelling abroad once a month for a weekend to stay with his family. I am unwilling to do this because I feel it would be really unsettling for my daughter and cause more problems with her behaviour. I have agreed to give him access every other Sunday though, (which is the most regular he wants), as he does have a residence that he's renting and living in near where we live. AIBU to say that I will not agree to her travelling abroad and being away from me overnight, once a month while she is so young? (travel time would be around 5/6hrs each way). He Is threatening me with court, do you think a court would force me to allow this?

Any advice appreciated and sorry for the lengthy post.

OP posts:
OnlyFoolsnMothers · 17/11/2020 04:37

Don’t have any experience on such matters OP but I can’t see a court looking favourably on financial blackmail, “I will pay for my daughter if...”
He needs to pay maintenance, don’t let him bully you with the threat of court!

MadameMiggeldy · 17/11/2020 04:39

That sounds very tough And no I wouldn’t be happy for my child to go abroad once a month. It disrupts her normal life here.
The child support should be separate to the contact bit though. Whether he is seeing her or not he should be paying maintenance.

tuesdayschild17 · 17/11/2020 04:52

@OnlyFoolsnMothers thank you. I think he is aware that I am unlikely to be able to afford a legal battle so is pushing hard to get everything he wants!

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tuesdayschild17 · 17/11/2020 04:53

@MadameMiggeldy Thanks for your support! I am really stressed about the idea of facing a legal battle and all the costs involved, particularly as I've tried so hard to be accommodating. But I am also unwilling to put my daughter in a situation where she's stressed by travel and away from her home so regularly.

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olympicsrock · 17/11/2020 05:00

You have it hard but I’m going to be straight talking. You seen overly desperate for you to have a father in her life. A bad father is not better than no father. A bully with substance issues is not a good father.
He has to pay maintenance legally and needs to have her more regularly than he does. This is why it is unsettling for her.
I think you would have to give permission for any overseas visit and do not have to hand over her passport. I think you need a legal agreement.
Be strong

Somewhereelsewhere · 17/11/2020 05:02

Oh my. I think you have been so very reasonable. I would say too much so.
I know two friends who didn’t allow the father of their child take them out of the country on a holiday until they over 5yeats old - and they were men who were consistent, spent lots of regular time witj their child and transparent and responsible in terms of sharing costs.

I assume if it’s 4/5hrs each way he wants to take her for ah least two nights? Is it a drive or on a plane?
I would be requesting he build a pattern of seeing her for one night for a period of a 6-12montjs near her home, in a stable consistent environment, before then building up to going abroad to somewhere unfamiliar.
And even so; then once a month is too much.
But I don’t get why he should get that privilege given he doesn’t even want her overnight.

Also. The money side is separate. You should not be afraid to ask. The fact he is setting conditions is very worrying as to the type of man he is and the future of the quality of the relationship they may have.

Anordinarymum · 17/11/2020 05:04

What if he takes her abroad and does not return OP

tuesdayschild17 · 17/11/2020 05:06

@olympicsrock I totally agree. I definitely feel for the first three years of her life, I felt desperate for him to be involved with her. I was naive in thinking it was best for her and also wanted someone else to be as invested in her as I was. After the Summer, I did consider that she may be better off without contact but he has said he would take me straight to court if this happened. And I feel they're likely to award him some contact, addiction or otherwise as he has now been out of rehab for over a year.

That's so good to know about the passport and overseas though. This is the bit I am most worried that he will force me on :( He's said in messages that a court 'is likely to grant his fair and reasonable requests' and I can't tell if he is bluffing?

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tuesdayschild17 · 17/11/2020 05:09

@Anordinarymum That's my worst nightmare! I shudder to think.

However, to avoid sounding too biased, I would say that irritatingly he sees himself as very 'moral' and all the pressure he is putting on me is to sign contracts and formal agreements. Therefore, he is unlikely to ever try and break the law.

Although I agree, that there is no certainty. Sad

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tuesdayschild17 · 17/11/2020 05:13

@Somewhereelsewhere I feel like I've somewhat shot myself in the foot by allowing her to go on holiday with him this Summer. I thought it would be good for her and selfishly, it seemed like my only chance of a break for the year. However, I totally agree that under 5 is too young and was shown that so much by her behaviour after it. I still feel guilty about allowing it!

I have tried suggesting politely that he build a consistent pattern over a year before building up to overnights but he is unwilling to concede. I think his parents are pushing hard for him to bring her to their country as the father doesn't like travelling. (I do try not to explode with rage, when I think that my poor three year old is expected to bear the brunt of the stress instead). It is a plan journey each way and an hour drive one end, and an hour and a half the other end, not including time spent inside the airport.

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TW2013 · 17/11/2020 05:16

How will that work with school? EOW and splitting half term so she can go for a long weekend maybe but as something to work towards after consistent input on his side so that he is already able to care for her reliably and consistently. Whether he can achieve that with an addiction is up to him. I imagine he goes away, hands all responsibility over to grandparents who dote on her. Do the grandparents know how unsettled she was on her return? Have you got a paper trail of all the times you have offered contact?

IceFrost · 17/11/2020 05:16

Well court would grant fair and reasonable access.

I would imagine if he shows his addiction is well under control and he’s been out of rehab a year he can ask for every other weekend (1 day like you said he wants ) and 1 weekend a month overnight.

That wouldn’t be an unreasonable request. If he was granted a weekend fri/sat-Monday then he can do what he wants with her in his time. You can’t dictate how he spends his time with her.

My partners ex takes their child on holiday, he never signed any passport forms and he doesn’t give any kind of permission when she goes.

IceFrost · 17/11/2020 05:18

Can you not ask that he has every other Sunday and when she starts school he can take her every school holidays for a few days? Try to compromise?

tuesdayschild17 · 17/11/2020 05:20

@TW2013 I can't see how it will work with school properly at all. I can picture her being knackered at the start of the week after all the change/journey :(

You are right in terms of the grandparents. Although, they too have been inconsistent with contact (being late and cutting time short with her) and never message me to check if she's alright.

I have a paper trail in the sense of whatsapp messages etc?

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IceFrost · 17/11/2020 05:20

By the way.. I think going abroad every month at such a young age is a bit much but she’s nearly 4 and if he pushes for one weekend visit a month at court then he may be granted it.

Specially as she’s already been on holiday with him.

tuesdayschild17 · 17/11/2020 05:23

@IceFrost He definitely needs my permission to take her abroad as he has a different surname to her (she has mine) and the last time he took her I had to write a letter giving it.

I am not trying to deny him access to the full weekend each month, I just don't want it to be abroad when she's so little. He also lives in a flat share so I suspect the grandparents would have to rent somewhere over here/stay in an airbnb if they wanted to have her for that weekend each month?

I would be happy with your second solution. That's what I've suggested and he is refusing to agree to that.

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hulahoopqueen · 17/11/2020 05:24

Does he know the extent of the change to her behaviour after the summer visit? I would raise this with him, and gently let him know that if he tries to force the abroad issue before DD has acclimated to spending more regular time with him, you have the opinion of nursery who noticed a severe change in her behaviour/personality after the last visit.
Also, point out that she's not pay-per-view. Weekends abroad are negotiable, him financially supporting his daughter is absolutely not.

Morechocmorechoc · 17/11/2020 05:27

I would get him to speak to nursery about her change in behaviour after last travel and say flat out it is not happening again si don't bother asking. Call his bluff and tell him maintenance comes with no conditions and if it doesn't start in the next week you will be taking him to court and requesting it is back dated for the years he hasn't contributed.

IceFrost · 17/11/2020 05:27

[quote tuesdayschild17]@IceFrost He definitely needs my permission to take her abroad as he has a different surname to her (she has mine) and the last time he took her I had to write a letter giving it.

I am not trying to deny him access to the full weekend each month, I just don't want it to be abroad when she's so little. He also lives in a flat share so I suspect the grandparents would have to rent somewhere over here/stay in an airbnb if they wanted to have her for that weekend each month?

I would be happy with your second solution. That's what I've suggested and he is refusing to agree to that.[/quote]
Are you sure the letter wasn’t a precaution ?

My step daughter doesn’t have the same Sir name as her mum either and she regularly takes her abroad with no documents except the birth certificate which shows she’s the mother. I presume he could do the same?

Try and drag it out then... keep the convo going for a while and then ignore some messages... by the time it ends up going to court it could be up to a year away by the time mediation is added on etc

tuesdayschild17 · 17/11/2020 05:28

@hulahoopqueen I did explain to him about how she behaved afterwards. I also reiterated that nursery had found the same. It was really noticeable because I've always had feedback saying that she's a really happy child. And they said she was crying a lot and not seeming herself for a few weeks :( .

Since then, he has not seen her overnight and her behaviour has gradually returned to normal toddler behaviour, with the nursery saying the same!

OP posts:
IceFrost · 17/11/2020 05:28

Surname not sir name 😅

Morechocmorechoc · 17/11/2020 05:28

Also you need to start being stronger for her. He can tell you are worried and therfore may concede. Sound strong and confident when you speak with him. And don't hesitate just be firm. You can do this.

IceFrost · 17/11/2020 05:29

Also just go straight to csa for money. Don’t speak to him about that, just open a case and get the money your daughter needs.

OldChinaJug · 17/11/2020 05:29

However, to avoid sounding too biased, I would say that irritatingly he sees himself as very 'moral' and all the pressure he is putting on me is to sign contracts and formal agreements. Therefore, he is unlikely to ever try and break the law.

You're trying to be reasonable so that other people dpnt think badly of you.

Also, people like him tend to work by their own morals. If he thinks it is the morally right thing to do, he will do whatever he wants. As he currently is.

tuesdayschild17 · 17/11/2020 05:30

@IceFrost I am fairly certain he needed the letter alongside scans of my passport etc. because I also have parental responsibility and he therefore needs my permission to take her abroad. It could just have been a precaution though?

I am trying to drag it out, but it seems unlikely I'll be able to afford legal costs/mediation at any point in the near future.

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