AIBU to not let the father of my child take her abroad once a month?

[tuesdayschild17]

My daughter was unplanned with a partner who I had not been seeing for long. When I found out about her, I informed him and gave him the option to walk away. We did not stay seeing each other romantically after this time.

He chose to be involved in her life and has his name on her birth certificate (allowing him joint parental responsibility). She is nearly 4 now and he has seen her throughout this time with various levels of consistency. His family live abroad and also wish to be involved. I have done everything I can so far to facilitate contact, allowing them to stay in our house and look after her for weekends occasionally and letting her go on holiday to their country with and without me.

However, there have been large gaps in between him/them seeing her where he has been bad with contact. He has either been struggling with addiction issues or just unwilling to be around during these times. I have tried to still remain understanding, believing that it would be best for my daughter to maintain a relationship with him. Unfortunately, after she spent a week away from me in the Summer with his family abroad, I started to reconsider this. Her behaviour was really unsettled when she got back. She suddenly threw more and more tantrums and wouldn't eat properly. The nursery separately commented on a big change in her behaviour and asked if she was unhappy. I felt that this was a result of the change in circumstances and being away from her home at such a young age. Obviously the typical 'we don't have to raise her, so we can say yes to everything' came into play too.

Initially, I was raising her with substantial help from my own mother in terms of costs/childcare. However, since the beginning of this year, I have been doing it solo as a student and with a part-time income. Her father has a well-paid full-time job. Prior to September, I had never asked him for financial support as I didn't want to scare him away from a relationship with her. However, the financial strain of raising her single meant that in September, I asked him to begin contributing. We are struggling to come to an agreement.

As part of his side of the bargain, he wants me to agree to her travelling abroad once a month for a weekend to stay with his family. I am unwilling to do this because I feel it would be really unsettling for my daughter and cause more problems with her behaviour. I have agreed to give him access every other Sunday though, (which is the most regular he wants), as he does have a residence that he's renting and living in near where we live. AIBU to say that I will not agree to her travelling abroad and being away from me overnight, once a month while she is so young? (travel time would be around 5/6hrs each way). He Is threatening me with court, do you think a court would force me to allow this?

Any advice appreciated and sorry for the lengthy post.

Oh and start gathering all evidence of any harassment, blackmail and every contact date, length of time, affect on your dd etc.

@MessAllOver I have directed him to the child support calculator multiple times. He hasn't declared his income to me but keeps making excuses such as he 'didn't rent his current accommodation with the idea of paying for her as well' in mind.

I am very torn about whether or not she would be better off without him. However, I don't think legally I would be able to prevent access entirely in a court, as he is willing to have a relationship with her. I have definitely considered whether she would do better without him though.

@Mummyoflittledragon I totally agree. I think the situation of being 'seen as a good dad' without the work is his ideal position.

I will try and speak to the nursery ASAP about putting something in writing. I didn't go to the GP/health visitor at the time but now wish I had. I mostly just tried my best to get her back into a consistent routine and try and get the tantrums/crying back to normal toddler levels.

I just feel he wants to have his cake and eat it at the moment. He wants to have the right to dictate exactly how and when he sees her without any responsibility. He has stated that he can rearrange any Sunday at a weeks notice, and can arrive anytime between 9-12am to pick her up .

@Mummyoflittledragon I have been trying to compile a folder of messages showing his inconsistency. Fortunately, I have one incidence to show where he didn't turn up and messaged me a minute after he was meant to arrive saying he was cancelling. I should also have records of him being late. He's always at least 15 mins late, often much more.

To be fair, he has never harassed me over message. He tends towards passive aggression and being incredibly assertive/patronising.

I would not sign any parenting agreements ever, I view quite suspicious being so formal when been he has been so flakey yet claiming label of co-parent. You need to protect yourself and not sign away anything, especially not without full legal advice and full understanding of all ramifications. Sounds like trying to back you into a corner and trap you.

You really need to post this in legal, and specify which country you're talking about. Do not assume the country has similar laws to ours.

I would be very worried that he wouldn't bring her back. Particularly because you say he thinks of himself as a moral person - in my experience people use their self-belief in their own morality to justify the most terrible behaviour (a kind of moral version of the Dunning Kruger effect).

Also Google th Hague Convention's provisions on child custody. (The wiki entry has a useful map of countries covered).

I am guessing you're talking about an EU country, but even there I'd take legal advice. For eg a 5 hour flight could include counties in the Middle East which are not signatories to the Hague Convention on Child Custody. And even countries which are signatories can cause huge problems - there have been threads on here with British women having huge problems with American partners refusing to let children return.

Get legal advice.

And as someone upthread said, stop thinking a bad father is better than no father.

If you have been the driving force in their father/daughter relationship then stop doing that .... when he is flakey and inconsistent, don't chase him. Don't send photos and updates, don't call and text. Of and when he backs off, let him. Same in terms of grandparents, don't be the driving force.

Are you saying he will pitch any time between 9 and 12. No way is that ok. With his addictive tendencies, I would be wondering if he were taking a bit of recreational drugs or getting drunk and having to sleep it off / wait to be sober. Not saying this is the case.

No way is it ok to be expected to be at his beck and call. This is again about control. So I would take it back. Tell him that doesn’t suit you. Pick for example 10 and iterate if he’s not there by 11, you will be out.

@Lizadork I totally agree and am refusing to sign the parenting plan he's provided on this basis. I never want to end up in a court situation having signed something that suggests we have 'equal responsibility' and 'equal rights' when it's not reflective of the situation.

@CaraDuneRedux I currently live in the UK and my daughter is only a UK passport holder. I would have thought that any custody arrangements would therefore be decided in a court over here.

In terms of the abroad worries, I have visited their address abroad and know people with contact to their family so the likelihood of them being able to abduct her without me being able to trace them is very slim. Obviously it's not without worry of that though.

I don't think that a bad father is better than no father, but I don't think I have the legal right to stop him seeing her entirely unfortunately. I think a court would be unlikely to support this.

First, CMS is essential. Good fathers provide for their children. He is a shit. Stop asking nicely for maintenance that he is legally required to pay!

Second, he is all about what is good for him. A mediator or court will be interested only in what is best for dd. No one on here can say for certain what a court might decide, but it seems unlikely that anyone thinks that an exhausting foreign trip once/month is a good idea for a young child. They will be even less impressed once she starts school.

You have evidence on your side. The nursery commented on her behaviour. You have history of facilitating contact with the father and the grandparents. You are raising a reasonable objection based on her welfare. You have a paper trail (WhatsApp).

So go get the money you are owed. Contact is a completely different issue - do NOT let him tie the two together or use maintenance as a bartering tool.

Very good luck! Your dd is lucky to have you.

@Mummyoflittledragon That's how I feel. I am going to give him a specific time to pick her up. I think the idea of going out if he doesn't turn up on time, is a great way of reinstating some control.

To be fair, he does appear to have been teetotal since rehab, although I can never be certain. I think it is more that he's lazy, as he's asked to collect her at 11.30 rather than 9 before, so that he can have 'more sleep' . I did want to scream that I haven't had a lie in for approximately 2 years but didn't bother in the end. Just told him to turn up on time at 9.

Your main concern here is that he takes her abroad and doesn’t bring her back.

The second one is that he has addiction issues.

Buy your guilt about him not living with her has made you over look these two very important issues.

You don’t know what the legal situation is because you havnt even spoken to a solicitor about it. Why?

Sometimes in life you have to be that person who is difficult to protect your kids.

Apply for CM regardless of what he says but your main worry here is him leaving the country with her. It wouldn’t be the first time a father has took his children/child for a ‘family’ holiday and never brought her back leaving the mother with no real legal standing in bringing her back.

You need to find a solicitor who is under understanding of your financial situation that is going to to help you secure her in the U.K. and give your real advice - today.

@Calligraphy572 Thanks so much. Your words are reassuring and help me to remind myself that a court will try and decide on what's best for my daughter, and not just on who has the better lawyer.

I will get onto CMS immediately to try and separate the two issues. Part of me has considered forgoing the money if he would be willing to walk away and leave her to be raised just by me. I thought this might still end up being better for her. Unfortunately, he's absolutely set on pursuing contact (with the abroad weekends included) whether I ask for maintenance or not, so seems sensible to start CMS proceedings immediately anyway and continue to refuse the time abroad until a court orders me otherwise.

@olympicsrock

You have it hard but I’m going to be straight talking. You seen overly desperate for you to have a father in her life. A bad father is not better than no father. A bully with substance issues is not a good father. He has to pay maintenance legally and needs to have her more regularly than he does. This is why it is unsettling for her. I think you would have to give permission for any overseas visit and do not have to hand over her passport. I think you need a legal agreement. Be strong

This except you won't be able to look at finances if he works abroad. Most countries don't have a repriocal arrangement. I'm sorry but he hasn't paid anything for 4 years. Taking the child once a month abroad -no. It's far too unsettling for a 4 year old -and I would not have done it before. He has contact if he comes to you AND pays.

I would be emailing separately one about money and one about contact.

Money -I'd state clearly that he hasn't paid anything and in the UK you pay 15% of your income to the RP. Ask him why he hasn't done this to date and if he will make a back payment for CMS to bring him up to date and pay going forward direct into your bank. State this is separate from contact.

Contact -state your issues clearly. State you have concerns over addictions -state what they are. State contact is for him, in the UK. It is the welfare of the child -travelling abroad away from 5 and consistent routine is not in her interests. State you have concerns over her behaviour on return. Offer zoom calls with family once HIS relationship is better established. But also state the times, he had let the child down etc.

State always the interests of the welfare of THE CHILD. His father is an adult and he can travel. You daughter is a young child -she doesn't.
End of.

@LauraBassi I agree that talking to a solicitor would be sensible. I think I am relinquishing the idea that this will be resolved without court. Currently I am not allowing him to leave the country with her at any point and will not be doing so in the foreseeable future.

I do not feel guilty that he doesn't live with her. I made the choice when she was born not to block contact with a father who stated that he wanted to be involved, because I believed that it would be best for my daughter not to actively prevent this.

I am mainly thinking about what a court would decide was best for her. Do you think they would take into account his addiction issues if he has been sober for a year? At this point I would use any avenue to pursue getting what I feel is best for my daughter. His opinion of me being fair/reasonable no longer matters, but the court's does because it may have influence over their decisions.

@tuesdayschild17.

You are trying to keep HIM happy as your priority. I think you need to stop doing that. Take control of the situation and your life and stop letting him dictate terms. Do what you think is best for your DD instead.

1. Child maintenance. If he won't pay, put in a formal claim. In fact, even if he agrees to pay, ask for proof of his salary - I wouldn't put it past him to fiddle the figures. What he pays in rent is irrelevant... he'll just have to move or get a lodger if he can't afford both. Fathers supporting children is not an optional expense.

2. On access, he doesn't call the shots. You do, until there is a court order. He's unlikely to take you to court as it costs money. So message back "9-12 doesn't suit us. If you can't give a more precise time, don't bother as we will be making other plans for the weekend". He doesn't get to keep you waiting in the house all weekend for him to grace you with his presence.

I think you need to admit something to yourself - this is the sort of man who, however hard you try, will always paint you as unreasonable. However much you do, it will not be enough. You are trying to fix everything, because that's what women are socially conditioned to do. Stop trying and focus your energies on making sure you and DD live your best life (with the financial support she's owed from her father).

@WindblowingSW I have already stated many of these things repeatedly, emphasising the impact that the travel would have on my daughter and the ongoing affect of his inconsistency.

I think sending two separate emails about finances/arrangements is a good idea though and will definitely do this.

The only thing I have not raised with him recently is my concerns over his addiction. However, you are right that now seems the time to do so.

A court will look at keeping the status quo -but building up contact with her father.

This will be done in the UK. Build up to overnights -although I would question a flat share with unknown people etc as a safeguarding issue.

They will not be impressed you have already let her go -with someone who was only out of rehab for a short amount of time. Protect the child.

@MessAllOver

1. I agree and will do this immediately.

2. I will also make plans and state that he has to arrive at a certain time on the weekend or no contact will happen.

I would say that recently I have tried to change my tone to make it clear that I do not care whether he considers me reasonable or not. However, I am also trying to tread carefully so that my words cannot be used against me in court for denying him access out of frustration/bitterness. I keep trying to restate that is just my daughter's interests and what is best for her that matters, as this is genuinely how I feel.

Cms for financial support
Can you put a block on him applying for a second passport? That way any trips will have to wait till court. Have your notes on how it affected her and how often he wants to take her away as support.

For him-
this parenting agreement you are looking for seems to be you will only financially support your child if I go along with every thing you want to play fun dad without regard for her welfare. I have brought our daughter up pretty much solo and will never put her welfare second to your ego.

If you can keep to the Sunday schedule for 4 months you can have her overnight (maybe once a fortnight?). If you can manage this for 6 months we will talk about overseas trips again, the last one was very disruptive for her, it took weeks for her behaviour to settle and nursery was asking me if she was ok. Some more regular parenting from you is needed before you can do an extended period away with her again, it was too much for her.

I’ve put in a maintenance claim and cms will be in contact.

Yes definitely CMS

Also I think it’s the time for proper legal advice and as a first port of call sending out a solicitors letter setting out clearly the amount of reasonable contact you are offering (every other Sunday with a move to EOW) and let them handle it

I think his focus on contracts/agreements/court on his side has you thinking not only are you wrong in not agreeing but that a court would agree with him. Court very much be where you need to end up but I would start with a solicitors letter

@WindblowingSW I have already raised the issue of a flatshare with safeguarding. I have stated that she will not be spending any time overnight with him until he has somewhere without flatmates.

I also regret the decision of letting her go abroad with him. I do think it is hard to see what's best for a child in black & white. She has shown affection and interest when seeing him and from what I can tell is keen to have someone to call 'daddy'. I know this is a result of social conditioning but it has made me more flexible in giving access previously, as I have been swayed by some of the emotional leverage it gives him. I have definitely not made perfect decisions in this process but it's so hard to foresee how someone will behave when they claim to want a relationship with her.

Just for clarity, I had no idea of his addiction problems until she was over two years old. I also didn't know that he wanted her to be taken abroad so regularly until he stated that this year.

Completely agree about the need to make it clear you know access arrangements and financial support are two separate systems. Have you tried pointing out to that mediation exists if you can't agree the parenting plan between you? The family court is the last resort. It might also be worth contacting Gingerbread for advice and support:

www.gingerbread.org.uk/

You have been incredibly flexible about this. Don't let him use the trip to his parents as a precedent for the future. Instead, highlight how it showed that it showed the need for consistent parenting and stability.

@timeisnotaline I definitely think that stating that he has to build up contact and consistency with her before I agree to anything overnight is key. That is what I have already told him and will reiterate to him.

I agree with everything else you've said. Playing 'fun dad' is the perfect expression. And same applies to the grandparents!