To dump DP over his female friend.

[femalefriend]

When DP and I first got together, he opened up a conversation about his female best friend. The reason he initiated the conversation is because this female friend had caused lots of issues for him in his last relationship. He told me that he uses this friend as a confidant, she is the only one he can really be himself around without judgement, they go out for dinner, drinks, nights out. They also kissed on an occasion when they were teenagers. He wanted to know my thoughts as his ex had not liked this friendship and it was one of the contributing factors for them splitting up.

I was honest and said I don't think most women would like to idea of their DP regularly opening up to another woman, going for dinners, going for nights out just the two of them etc. It wasn't something I felt overly comfortable with and could understand why his ex didn't like it either. He said he understood my position and was happy to adapt this friendship into something that wouldn't cause anymore issues for him. Fine.

There have been a couple of instances now relating to this friend. In the first instance, they went for dinner one evening, he never told me about it and I found out much later down the line. This caused an argument as I felt he had lied in the first instance by pretending to be happy to adapt his friendship, and also indirectly lied by not telling me about it.

Every time we go through a difficult patch this 'friend' seems to appear in a big way. After we had an argument about something unrelated he went on a night out with her after work, then booked tickets for them to go to a concert the following weekend together.

Recently, we split up and within 2 weeks he had booked a holiday abroad for the two of them to be away for 4 nights together, staying in separate rooms in an apartment. She posted photos of their holiday all over her social media accounts, knowing full well I, our friends/family and everyone else would see them. To add insult to injury, I had asked him so many times for us to go away together and he kept saying he was worried about covid. He said he only went on the holiday as he was so upset over losing me and needed an escape.

We then decided to get back together and he said he knew he couldn't continue with the friendship in the same way after everything that has happened. After the nights out, dinners and especially the holiday he knew it was inappropriate and he knew he needed to put me first from now on. This was one of the reasons I even agreed to give him a second chance. It has now been 3 weeks and he is saying it will be very difficult for him and it's easier said than done giving up a friendship like that...

AIBU to dump him and not get back together again?

If the friend was a male I can’t see how there’d be any problem with any of this. So if you’ve got a problem with them going for a meal together (perfectly normal thing to do with a mate in my books) or on holiday it’s because you think he actually fancies her and it’s not a just friendship at all.

Of course she will be there for him if you guys break up or have an argument. And why shouldn’t she post pictures of their holiday online.

The issue isn’t their friendship it’s the fact that for whatever reason you don’t believe it is just a friendship and don’t trust him.

After 2 years I would expect a partner to be my main confidant. This clearly isnt the relationship that you want so best call it quits

Au contraire, if a boyfriend effectively told me I'd never measure up to his best male friend, that he couldn't truly be himself around anyone but this male friend (ie, he can't be himself around me), wasn't honest about meeting the guy and holidayed with him and not me, I'd be unimpressed enough to decide the relationship didn't have legs. I admit, I'd also wonder if he was sexually attracted to him, as men just don't generally talk about their platonic friends that way... I'm prepared to accept that that might be my issue, and a wrong inference, and perhaps I need to work on myself, but I won't pretend it wouldn't occur to me. Either way, though, the guy would clearly be unavailable on the level I expect a relationship to operate and that's a fair reason to drop it. Especially if his previous relationship failed for the exact same reason.

I think a lot of women get stuck for years in bad relationships like this because they feel it somehow reflects badly on them to get out; proof that they really are just a jealous bitch and a non-cool girl or whatever, which is a really terrible reason to put up with such obvious crap.

@PrincessNutNut

Au contraire, if a boyfriend effectively told me I'd never measure up to his best male friend, that he couldn't truly be himself around anyone but this male friend (ie, he can't be himself around me), wasn't honest about meeting the guy and holidayed with him and not me, I'd be unimpressed enough to decide the relationship didn't have legs. I admit, I'd also wonder if he was sexually attracted to him, as men just don't generally talk about their platonic friends that way... I'm prepared to accept that that might be my issue, and a wrong inference, and perhaps I need to work on myself, but I won't pretend it wouldn't occur to me. Either way, though, the guy would clearly be unavailable on the level I expect a relationship to operate and that's a fair reason to drop it. Especially if his previous relationship failed for the exact same reason.

I think a lot of women get stuck for years in bad relationships like this because they feel it somehow reflects badly on them to get out; proof that they really are just a jealous bitch and a non-cool girl or whatever, which is a really terrible reason to put up with such obvious crap.

Seconding the last paragraph. You don’t get any brownie points in life for trying to be ultra accommodating and liberal with your boundaries.

This is interesting, saw this thread which seems to be related

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4075377-my-partner-doesnt-want-me-to-be-friend-with-him

Curiously the DH, seems to be in the wrong in the majority of the posts on that thread and also on this, despite both being from an opposing standpoint.

@PrincessNutNut

Au contraire, if a boyfriend effectively told me I'd never measure up to his best male friend, that he couldn't truly be himself around anyone but this male friend (ie, he can't be himself around me), wasn't honest about meeting the guy and holidayed with him and not me, I'd be unimpressed enough to decide the relationship didn't have legs. I admit, I'd also wonder if he was sexually attracted to him, as men just don't generally talk about their platonic friends that way... I'm prepared to accept that that might be my issue, and a wrong inference, and perhaps I need to work on myself, but I won't pretend it wouldn't occur to me. Either way, though, the guy would clearly be unavailable on the level I expect a relationship to operate and that's a fair reason to drop it. Especially if his previous relationship failed for the exact same reason.

I think a lot of women get stuck for years in bad relationships like this because they feel it somehow reflects badly on them to get out; proof that they really are just a jealous bitch and a non-cool girl or whatever, which is a really terrible reason to put up with such obvious crap.

I agree. I think any friendship of this intensity, whether with a male or female, which causes issues within one/both of their romantic relationships is unhealthy. I wouldn't stay with a man who consistently put his male friends above me and was emotionally unavailable to me, and I wouldn't accept it from a female friendship either.

As others said, you either trust him or you don't
If you don't then end it, and let him find some one who does.
I don't think he has behaved badly, and feel you have put him in a difficult position.
Saying that if you feel being able to dictate who your partner speaks to and about is what you think you should be able to do, than I wish you luck on your search

I'm sitting here trying to think how I would feel if DH described another adult as the only person he could really be himself with, and it makes my skin crawl. The holidays and lying by omission aside, to be told that would make things untenable for me. He's basically saying "the me you know isn't the real me, you're not enough to get to see the real me" and that is not what I would be prepared to accept in a life partner.

Stop wasting your time.

Gather up some self respect and get rid.

@Cheeseandwin5

This is interesting, saw this thread which seems to be related

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4075377-my-partner-doesnt-want-me-to-be-friend-with-him

Curiously the DH, seems to be in the wrong in the majority of the posts on that thread and also on this, despite both being from an opposing standpoint.

I think the viewpoint is very much dictated by who originally posts. If the partner of the OP on this thread posted and played down the friendship and gave examples of how the OP had acted unreasonably jealous in the past, then we'd probably mainly agree with him, and likewise if the dh on the other thread posted then we'd probably relate to him. We're biased based on how the OP tells their side of the story.

He's a spineless weasel.

I suspect he enjoys feeling powerful and making you jealous. Do you really want to be with someone like that?

Sadly, she's a tool for manipulation, and one that he rolls out at the right moment to cause the greatest amount of upset and anxiety.

@YoniAndGuy

Oh for fuck’s sake.

Go and find a grown up and leave Mr Wide Eyed Innocence to carry on messing with this woman’s head while crying into his pint that he never seems to find a girlfriend who sticks around.

Twat, and he knows exactly what he’s doing.

‘Wow it’s a real shame that somehow you are so utterly unique that you can only ever open up to one single woman in the whole world... and she’s not your partner! I wonder what amazing quirk in your psyche makes that happen. Perhaps it’s Stirring Little Shitbag Syndrome, have you heard of it? Quite common in men like you until they realise everyone else is sorting out their personal lives and they’re beginning to get left behind. Then they miraculously get cured and start behaving like grown ups. Hope that happens to you too’

This, exactly.

Sorry but you're one corner of a love triangle here. He clearly has deep, deep feelings for this OW (which is what she is, if not physically, which I suspect, then clearly emotionally.) It's beyond a joke and I wouldn't put up with it, I don't care what other posters say about having friends of the opposite sex - that's fine, but it's the degree of intimacy here which is problematic. If my DH went out for dinner, drinks and nights out with another woman, I'd be having words. That's me that he should be doing that with, not some "friend."

And fuck that shit about "she's the only one he can be himself around without judgement." What does that tell you?

He'll probably end up marrying her. Good luck to both of them. And you deserve a man who puts you first.

The only time my husband has gone behind my back and lied about a female friend is when it wasn't an innocent friendship..

Sounds like a lot of hassle, he's going to go running to her everytime you. You're always going to come 2nd best, fuck that

YANBU to end the relationship.

I don't think his friendship is inappropriate, I just think you aren't the type of woman who can cope with a partner with a female best friend. And that's fair enough, I wouldn't feel happy either due to low confidence.

He's entitled to his friendship and to me, friendships include dinners out, drinks, occasional holidays.

But if you can accept it then you need to move on. I'm sure he'll find someone else who can at some point and you'll find someone who doesn't have a female best friend.

@Blobson

I totally understand that, but the facts are pretty much the same.

Either you believe a partners view should take precedence over who you can call a friend or you dont.

Some of those calling him all sorts of names are strangely missing from the other thread. I wonder now I have shared it they will put the same message on the other thread,

Its as if the topic is unimportant but rather they just want a chance to man bash.....

I just think you aren't the type of woman who can cope with a partner with a female best friend.

What total shit.

I am constantly amazed by these threads. Before MN I was completely unaware that so many grown women were incapable of coping with their partners having female friends.

It was completely normal in my circles, from school, for people to have close friendships with the opposite sex. I have always had close male friends. It has never been an issue in my relationships. I always see it as a good sign if I am interested in a man romantically, if he has female friends.

He fancies her, probably loves her, but cannot have her. Dump him, and she is a nasty piece of work too - selfish the pair of them.
Don't get caught in their narcissistic crossfire xx

I think the holiday was a step too far...especially as he knew you were so desperate to go on holiday with him and he always resisted...you have said you'll give him another chance so perhaps you should stick it out for a few months and see how it goes, but he needs to realise how much this is upsetting you and make changes. If not, then leave for good next time!

The other thread is different, though, I was following it. That was about an invitation to the friend's engagement party to another woman, it really was about one event. There wasn't any indication that he was interfering in the OP's relationship with her partner, she certainly never said that she could be herself with this friend in a way that she couldn't with anyone else.

@ThanksItHasPockets

I just think you aren't the type of woman who can cope with a partner with a female best friend.

What total shit.

Completely. But this bullshit narrative is a reason for many women to stay in crap relationships.

@blindinglyobviouslight

I am constantly amazed by these threads. Before MN I was completely unaware that so many grown women were incapable of coping with their partners having female friends.

It was completely normal in my circles, from school, for people to have close friendships with the opposite sex. I have always had close male friends. It has never been an issue in my relationships. I always see it as a good sign if I am interested in a man romantically, if he has female friends.

Likewise, but for opposite reasons. It is amazing to me that anyone would expect OP to put up with her partner of two years having a friend, regardless of gender, who was their main confidant(e) and the only person with whom ‘they can really be themselves’.

@blindinglyobviouslight

I am constantly amazed by these threads. Before MN I was completely unaware that so many grown women were incapable of coping with their partners having female friends.

It was completely normal in my circles, from school, for people to have close friendships with the opposite sex. I have always had close male friends. It has never been an issue in my relationships. I always see it as a good sign if I am interested in a man romantically, if he has female friends.

Oh give over.

You don't get any extra "cool girlfriend" points by pretending that this situation is the same as a normal friendship with a member of the opposite sex.

I cringe for people like you. You either don't have the ability to read the situation correctly or you're deliberately misunderstanding. For what? What's the purpose?

and she is a nasty piece of work too

Is she? Doesn’t that go against the MN mantra that even if a guy’s having a full on affair, it’s 100% his fault?