To dump DP over his female friend.

[femalefriend]

When DP and I first got together, he opened up a conversation about his female best friend. The reason he initiated the conversation is because this female friend had caused lots of issues for him in his last relationship. He told me that he uses this friend as a confidant, she is the only one he can really be himself around without judgement, they go out for dinner, drinks, nights out. They also kissed on an occasion when they were teenagers. He wanted to know my thoughts as his ex had not liked this friendship and it was one of the contributing factors for them splitting up.

I was honest and said I don't think most women would like to idea of their DP regularly opening up to another woman, going for dinners, going for nights out just the two of them etc. It wasn't something I felt overly comfortable with and could understand why his ex didn't like it either. He said he understood my position and was happy to adapt this friendship into something that wouldn't cause anymore issues for him. Fine.

There have been a couple of instances now relating to this friend. In the first instance, they went for dinner one evening, he never told me about it and I found out much later down the line. This caused an argument as I felt he had lied in the first instance by pretending to be happy to adapt his friendship, and also indirectly lied by not telling me about it.

Every time we go through a difficult patch this 'friend' seems to appear in a big way. After we had an argument about something unrelated he went on a night out with her after work, then booked tickets for them to go to a concert the following weekend together.

Recently, we split up and within 2 weeks he had booked a holiday abroad for the two of them to be away for 4 nights together, staying in separate rooms in an apartment. She posted photos of their holiday all over her social media accounts, knowing full well I, our friends/family and everyone else would see them. To add insult to injury, I had asked him so many times for us to go away together and he kept saying he was worried about covid. He said he only went on the holiday as he was so upset over losing me and needed an escape.

We then decided to get back together and he said he knew he couldn't continue with the friendship in the same way after everything that has happened. After the nights out, dinners and especially the holiday he knew it was inappropriate and he knew he needed to put me first from now on. This was one of the reasons I even agreed to give him a second chance. It has now been 3 weeks and he is saying it will be very difficult for him and it's easier said than done giving up a friendship like that...

AIBU to dump him and not get back together again?

He has already had one broken relationship due to this friendship, and he’s about to lose another one. Surely the alarm bells must be ringing for him? How he cannot see that this friendship is the kiss of death to his relationships is beyond me.

Absolutely. Whilst there’s nothing wrong with having a best friend of the opposite sex, you need to realise this will ruin 99% of your romantic relationships. It all sounds very odd.

Ugh, dump him. The issue isn't that he had a female friend but the lying by omission and then the holiday - that was really the final straw. I've had boyfriends like that. Don't want to go out, go for dinner, go away anywhere, just stay in all the time (I was happy to pay my own way). Allegedly couldn't afford it/didn't have time/didn't feel like it. But as soon as their mate(s) suggested it, suddenly skipped off to do all those things. Needless to say I wasn't invited. Such a slap in the face.

As for what's going on with them, may well be nothing but I expect she holds a candle for him and he's keeping her hanging on. I'm struck by you saying she "appears" each time you and he fall out. She seems to be waiting in the wings for her big chance! He may not feel romantically about her but seems to be using her to "punish" you when you argue. If I'm right (I may not be) this is really disgusting behaviour.

I can see your point but I've been in a similar situation as the friend.
We used to go out for drinks and dinner but not on holiday. We were both in relationships so I don't know if that makes a difference.
We talked about everything together and I wouldn't have given up the friendship just because my partner was jealous.
He's actually moved away now but we still talk every week. It's nothing romantic and my husband knows that. If I wanted to have married my friend I wouldn't have married my husband
If you don't trust him or feel the friendship is too much then leave him and find someone who makes you happy. Life's too short to be miserable.

Would he be happy if you had a male best friend who was the only person in your life that you felt most at ease with, who you go on holidays and meals with, excluding him and putting your best friend before him every time?

I doubt it.

It's not the friendship that's the problem, it's the unequal treatment and the lies. She'll always be his priority I'm afraid.

OP,
You have wasted two years.
Move on.

He has zero regard for you.

The holiday should have spelt that out in huge letters to you.

You have been played.
You are not even vaguely a priority to him.

Good luck.

I think this would make most people bloody unhappy OP. Leave him and let them get on with it.

Nah...I just wouldn't be interested in the associated head games with him to be honest. Life is too short OP... with this guy I can almost GUARANTEE drama will always be around the corner. I would move on!

I'd have no problem with the fact that his best friend is a woman but I'd have big problems with the fact that he allows her to cause trouble in his other relationships.
Tell him to jog on and be done.

I disagree with the PP who said that the friend sounds like a troublemaker because she posted holiday pics on her social media. She was on holiday, she's perfectly entitled to post pictures of her holiday. OP and the guy had broken up at that point as well so who knows what bollocks he tells his friend since at no point has OP said anything about her meeting this friend or spending any time with her I assume the guy keeps them apart to prevent any exchanging of notes on what he's saying to each of them.

We all know that friendships this intense can easily cross the line.

It’s not black and white. It’s fine to have friendships with the opposite sex, going out to dinner or whatever. But this is quite intense, there was romance in the past, he goes on holidays with her when he won’t go with you. If the best mate was male it’d be an issue too.

Just being blunt, this is not the behaviour of a man who is smitten with you. He wouldn’t behave like this if he really gave a shit about losing you. Dump him, you will find a better man I promise.

In my mind, it sounds like he's stringing her along. He's possibly into her, and they have a connection etc. But he wants to have fun with other women and see what's out there first. Just in case he can do better. So technically, not cheating, but not being 100% honest either.

I say this as someone who is married and has a very good male friend who I confide in. So I know opposite sex friendships can work.

I have really close male friends who talk to me about their love lives and confide in me in general and we go out for dinner and other stuff regularly...

They have been friends for years and I have never jeopardised any of their relationships. In fact I am also friends with their partners.

If you are insecure about your partner having female friends it just says more about you than about them.

I would also have an issue with a male partner who asked me to give up my friendships with my male friends.

They have been there for me when I was going through hard times and there is no way I am giving them the brotherly friendship I have with them.

You should move on.

I have to admit I’m very curious why he and this friend aren’t a couple. The person that you can open up to like no other, the person you go to in times of stress. That’s the person you spend your life with.

Regardless of whether his relationship with her is out of order, he is not respecting your boundaries.

If you are considering not leaving him, you are also considering not respecting your boundaries, will cause a far more pervasive and long lasting problem in your life.

Move on, forget him, and have a look at yourself so that you have strong boundaries for future relationships.

@Respectabitch

Well, as an alternative view, it's hardly surprising that he turns to his best friend when you two are on the outs, and dinner and chatting with a best friend is hardly the height of impropriety. It's entirely possible for a man to have a female best friend and still be faithful. Either you trust him and trust he doesn't have feelings for her or you don't. You clearly don't, so it won't work, so stay split.

Yes, this. Obviously, I don't know any more than you've posted, but there often seem to be double standards on Mn about the way in which men's and women's best friends are 'allowed' to behave in relation to their romantic/sexual relationships.

I mean, it seems normal enough on here for women to tell their best friends about how their new relationship is developing, confide their doubts etc, and cry on their shoulder or go on holiday with them after a break-up. No sexual component.

Is it fair to require your boyfriend to not confide in his longterm best friend about your relationship, especially if you're confiding in yours about it? Is it fair to expect your ex not to go on holiday with his best friend after you've broken up?

You seem to see her as a 'rival', as if each man only gets to have one woman in his life, and you should displace her.

For me, the issue is that he isn’t including you in the friendship at all. Besties don’t need to only go out one to one; why are you never included in their nights out? Or as part of a group? I would expect to have the friend come to visit occasionally as well. They’re acting like a couple, but without the sex IMO.

It’s also really not on that he’s involving her in your relationship issues, especially as he knows you’re uncomfortable with the friendship.

You can't dictate who your partner is friends with and making them "tone down" or discard a friendship is isolating and abusive. You knew he had a best friend going into the relationship, if you couldn't handle that you should have found someone friendless. But even then they are perfectly entitled to make a friend once they start a relationship with you.

She feeds his ego and he loves it. He's also very immature having to run to her every time you dare to disagree with him about anything. Her sex is irrelevant even if this was a bloke the dynamics of it are downright irritating.

Just bin him and find a man as opposed to a needy kid.

I am usually cool about female friends.

But I suspect she is a vulture, after him, hovvering, and everytime he is upset, alone of vulnerable, she swoops in.

The worst thing, perhaps, is that he is too weak to say no and put her right, and uses her when he is down but isn't clear that he does not fancy her, or whatever.

Or maybe he is hankering after her.

Was she friendly with you? Did he introduce you to her early and let you get to know her freely?

It's called triangulation, google it. It's bullshit behaviour and he's using her as an excuse to not get close to you. (Piss him off one evening? Oh well there's always someone else who will be a listening ear...) Real friends are supportive of their mates partnerships and will enhance your relationship. A pseudo-relationship like theirs will always undermine yours with him. Get out, and don't look back or you'll be wrangling with him over this for the next 15 years before you give up in the end anwyay. He won't change.

The friendship itself isn't the issue. I see three main issues here: First, his description of her in the early conversation as 'the only one he can open up to'. That wasn't necessary. 'We get on really well and I'd like to keep seeing her as a friend' would have been sufficient. The implication of a level of emotional involvement suggests to me you were being set up to accept her as a priority (over you perhaps). Second, the secrecy about seeing her. If there wasn't some kind of meaning being invested in this, he would be entirely open about it. Third, the fact that he seems to gravitate to her when you are having a rough time. I wonder if what's going on is that he likes to use her to keep his girlfriends on their toes and play them off against her (possibly manipulating her feelings for him, if she has them, too)? The 'I know it's inappropriate' followed by lamenting about how hard it is for him would also be suggestive of a tendency to game-play and manipulate.

So yes, I'd be getting out IIWY. But this isn't about the woman nor about the fact that he has a good female friend. It's about his actions.

I finished with someone for this reason, much sooner in though when it first become obvious that it would be a future problem.

I felt like we were shitting on her when we were together even though he was supposed to be a single man when I met him. He also said before that it had caused problems in past relationships, I think it helped him to see it as women having a problem with other women being around.

I think I have a problem going out with people who need such intense friendships where the friend is always calling, always reassuring my partner they are available to talk etc, to my mind that is what partners naturally do over the course of time, if there is never a vacancy for the partner then they don't need one, it's like the friend is already the partner they don't fancy. I'd say the same if it was a single male friend with loads of time for my partners emotional needs, I'd just move on.

@HallieKnight

You can't dictate who your partner is friends with and making them "tone down" or discard a friendship is isolating and abusive. You knew he had a best friend going into the relationship, if you couldn't handle that you should have found someone friendless. But even then they are perfectly entitled to make a friend once they start a relationship with you.

Its abusive to be upset that your boyfriend took his female friend on a holiday when refusing to go with you? That your boyfriend has basically told you that he'll never be able to be as emotional close or open with you as with female friend? Come on, I know the word 'abusive' gets thrown out a ridiculous amount on here, but that is a new low when there are some obvious massive red flags from his end.

Its a sad indication of how much shit some women will turn a blind eye to though, just to not be seen as the nagging, mean girlfriend. No wonder so many men have their cake and eat it, that emotional affairs get dismissed as this sort of 'we're just really good friends!' excuse.

The emotional intimacy he is sharing with her should only be reserved for a partner. There will lots of people on here who tell you they have friendships to the extent they're almost emotional affairs, but their partners are ok with it. They don't know however what long term impact this has had on their partners. I know, because I was the cool gf for many years over my ex's best friend- he would have said it wasn't an issue in our relationship, but I detached from him for years and finally ended it when I met someone who gave me the emotional connection he never could, as i shared that with his best friend. He's still single as no other gf since me has put up with it either.

Friendship of the opposite sex is ok. But her being the only person he can be himself with, his one confidant, taking her on holidays instead of you. The fact they did once kiss. No. You are not unreasonable for dumping him over this. Don't settle for crappy behaviour just to seem cool and secure. That makes you a doormat ignoring your own needs in a relationship. Life is too short for this drama and friendships with no boundaries.