to think that not having friends isn't that unusual

[faginssidekick]

AIBU to think that this isn't actually all that unusual in this day and age when people have moved away from their families, have smaller families and work such long hours or have a long commute? At the school gate people (pre covid) seem to stand on their own and not engage with others and children going round to other's houses to play seems to be a rarer thing than it used to be a few years ago? Mine were always in and out of other's houses when they were younger as we lived in a road with a lot of similar aged children but that doesn't seem to happen any more. Obviously that's before this year and covid.

Yes, I don't think realistically there are many people doing a 1 strike and they're out approach to friends. It's understood life gets in the way - one friend and I once spent about 3 weeks mutually cancelling and rearranging times to meet because work/ parental responsibilities/ extreme weather got in the way. Neither of us held that against the other, shit happens.

However there will be certain people where they are always cancelling, always have something more important, or are always passive and waiting for you to make the first move. I know that in one group, I was always the instigator and arranger, orchestrating meetings every few months. I stepped back from this several years ago and since then we have met as a group twice! The last time was in January last year.

Equally I have another group where 1 person is always the organiser. I have tried to share that responsibility, put forward some suggestions of meet ups etc but I didn't get many responses, another person in the group has also tried but again met with a fairly lacklustre response from everyone else. When the organiser proposes something however, there is a much more effusive response, which means it's difficult for us to share the burden.

Of course, in the group where I was the organiser, no one even tried this!

Just another observation on friendships...when I was younger - late teens/ early 20s- most of my friends were male. However, one by one they all drifted as soon as they got into LTRs, as the girlfriends - many of whom later became their wives - were not comfortable with me being around, so we all lost touch. I can see why, but it did mean that I've always been slightly wary of male friendships going forward.

When I was young my Mum didn’t have any friends of her own having moved to my Dad’s area, away from family and friends and given up her job. I saw how it really affected her and tbh it wasn’t great for us as she made us aware of the fact.

I’ve always worked hard to keep up friendships and enjoy making new friends, even though I’d call myself and introvert and need time alone. I think friends are important if you can make the effort.

"Exactly. I find this attitude so frustrating. If you go into every friendship expecting it to last a lifetime of course you're going to be hurt and disappointed. Not every friendship will last to the end of your life and not every friend will be with you forever. It doesn't mean that it hasn't been a worthwhile experience."

Have been ghosted in the past, by someone I went to uni with years ago now. She stayed single and worked full-time, I went a different path by having a family and putting my career on hold. It all fizzled out at that point. Yep, it's hurtful so I sympathise with others who are disappointed when friendships don't last forever. I get it. That is why I prefer not to get involved anymore. Can't get hurt that way again.

(When I say I work hard, I’m not a pushover and have cut off people who have a negative effect. I just make time to see them etc, chat to new people at the school gate and so on)

I have got entirely too wrapped up in this thread; it is a subject cllose to my heart and one that I have spent a lifetime contemplating.

I think so much about it because my mom was widowed relatively early, at only 62. She has a ton of friends despite having being an SAHM all her life because she works at it. The women in my family generally live past 90. That means, she is likely to be "alone for nearly 30 plus years, almost as long as she was married. Without her friends, she would be incredibly lonely because her children are scattered. That said, I think she made most of her friends in her late 40s and 50s,, when most were done with childrearing. Never too late!

On the 'girl's holiday' point, I went on one of these with the group I mentioned in my previous post (where I was always the organiser). And it was a total nightmare! Having agreed we'd like to go away as a group, I ended up having to:

-find and book (and pay for, although they eventually paid me back) the holiday
-arrange to pay for baggage - Ryanair! - and go through the pain of trying to explain to them what was and wasn't included, what size bag they could take and so on
-tell them what time to be at the airport and arrange where to meet
-organise what we did every day and where we ate

We only went for a few days; by the time I came home I needed another actual holiday. It was the last nail in the coffin of me organising that group!

I don't think it's that unusual

I don't think it's that ideal

"These people can organise when it suits them". Some of them can't. I speak from experience: I used to be really really bad at organising stuff. I just hadn't ever had to do it.

But I know these people,went out with them.Whereas I don't know you or what you're capable of.

You're basically saying: "you have to be exactly like me or I won't bother with you."

Nope I don't expect everyone to be exactly like me @thepeopleversuswork but I do expect a person who says they are a friend,to say hello now and then.

@MrsMarrio that's exactly what I mean.
Also similar circs,being with my do since I was 18.

Have no brother or sisters.
I did have a big group of friends.One ghosted me,I left a job and met my friend for a night out.It was like breaking up with a bf.The spark and fun were gone.We here like strangers There were no statics,we just knew it had run its course.

These are grown women

Yes, grown women with friends

Have been ghosted in the past, by someone I went to uni with years ago now. She stayed single and worked full-time, I went a different path by having a family and putting my career on hold. It all fizzled out at that point. Yep, it's hurtful so I sympathise with others who are disappointed when friendships don't last forever. I get it. That is why I prefer not to get involved anymore. Can't get hurt that way again.

This is such a strange attitude. You had a perfectly normal experience, a friend from uni and you went off and had totally different lives and your friendship fizzled out as you no longer had anything in common and did not actually see each other. That's to be expected. That's what happens.
Yet you chose to see at as something being done to you, that you were "ghosted". And you chose to never bother making another friend. That's weirdly obsessive and actually rather worrying. Not to mention extremely self absorbed.

I see some posters saying it's easy to make friends at school, uni, work etc...

My own experience has been the opposite, partly through circumstances. I have also come to realise over the years the more friends you have, the easier it is to make more - and vice versa.

It goes all the way back to my childhood - when I started school, almost everyone in the (small) class group had been to nursery together and their parents knew each other. I was a shy only child and always struggled to really get into their close group. When I started uni, I had a close family bereavement a couple of weeks into the first year and completely missed out on the socialising due to that. My flat mates in halls were almost all exchange students who went home after 6 months so even though we were friends at a time, it didn't last after they left. I've then spent most of my career so far working for a very small organisation where everyone was at least 20 years older than me and had completely different interests. Again, we were friends at work but it hasn't lasted after I left. Now I'm self-employed and only speak to work contacts remotely...

I find it easy to get to know people initially (neighbours, through hobbies/volunteering etc.) but always find people already have their old friends they are close to so I'm very far down the list for them.

I wonder if there is something evolutionary in our behaviour that means we are more attracted to people that already have friends in their lives than an equivalent person who doesn't.

It makes it even harder for a lone person to get started, kind of like someone without any money trying to build a credit rating to get money? Couldn't think of a better analogy.

I lost old school friends when exh and I got divorced, but looking back they weren't really friends they were just people we would see in the pubs. I also lost my job after 15 yrs so lost all my close work colleagues which was really painful.
I didnt make many friends at my kids schools as it was so clicky. I made friends with 1 mum who I still see every few months now so we've been friends for about 10 yrs now.
I tried joining groups etc but I found people go to them already as a pair so always hard to make friends if people are already paired up?
Anyway there's people I know in my neighbourhood who i say hello to, so I have to feel fortunate for that.
But if anyone wants to chat DM ? :) xx

An open heart and giving people the benefit of the doubt will go a long with friends.

You don't really know why your friend is cancelling for the third time - maybe her anxiety is sky high and she is too ashamed or proud to admit it. The flakey friend actually has a rather abusive husband and she is struggling to cope. That one that never pays for anything, she was struggling to pay her bills. The one that forgot your birthday is having serious problems at work. What I am really saying is, unless you know for certain that something is deliberate then let things go, because life is really hard - it can be unbearably hard once we hit 402/50s with sick parents, demanding jobs, menopause etc. The kindest thing we can do is to overlook what we can, cherish the time when it does all come together and know in our hearts that we are all doing our best, in some form of another - sometimes against the odds of a broken childhood they can not talk about or unseen mental health challenges. Even the most perfect life will have its thorns and its pain.

**way

GoJoe had been friends for over 11 years with that person. Bit weird they just suddenly never responded to texts when making arrangements for lunch. If you have had a longstanding friendship with someone and then they suddenly just don't respond it is hurtful. Just be glad it wasn't you.

Have been ghosted in the past, by someone I went to uni with years ago now. She stayed single and worked full-time, I went a different path by having a family and putting my career on hold. It all fizzled out at that point. Yep, it's hurtful so I sympathise with others who are disappointed when friendships don't last forever. I get it. That is why I prefer not to get involved anymore. Can't get hurt that way again.

I also find this attitude really bizarre. Its like saying you've been on one holiday where it rained a lot so you're determined never to go on holiday again. Don't people have the resilience to just dust themselves down and try again?

Also why are some of you apparently so hardline about these infractions from your friends but presumably not when it involves your spouse or partner? Have your DHs never been late home or not texted you when they said they would? I can't believe all of you who basically have written off having girlfriends have entirely model partners who are totally above all reproach.

There seems to be this weird double standard applied whereby girlfriends are subjected to these massively high bars in terms of their behaviour. Which is fine except most of you are married or coupled. Clearly if you have a partner you usually live with them so its not subject to the same logistics issues, but still there is a requirement for commitment there.

Which leaves me to wonder why its apparently one rule for the friend and another for the spouse?

@thepeopleversuswork
Well...
My husband is a lot more committed to me than said friends.
I agree to meet him at a pub after work for dinner and he doesn't feign illness three times in a row as an excuse not to turn up.
Madness that partners and friends have different standards.

We had been on holiday together, hill walking together, she was my bridesmaid at my wedding etc. Long after uni days were over.

I think my vibe is off. My mum has done school runs for us over lock down and everyone is lovely to her. The same people have blanked my greetings for months. I had lots of friends in my 20s and had a great time but that has fizzled out and now I have a few mum friends, who are very competitive, and that's it. I miss close friendships and the pleasure of laughing with people. I am now thinking this is it for me, as I can't imagine making new friends now. I get jealous of the friendship group holidays and spa weekends and hen parties people go to.

Have been ghosted in the past, by someone I went to uni with years ago now. She stayed single and worked full-time, I went a different path by having a family and putting my career on hold. It all fizzled out at that point. Yep, it's hurtful so I sympathise with others who are disappointed when friendships don't last forever. I get it. That is why I prefer not to get involved anymore. Can't get hurt that way again.

As others have said, you had a perfectly normal experience. Which, absolutely, is also sad and disconcerting I don't deny those feelings for a moment and have felt them myself on more than one occasion but which happens to virtually everyone at some point.

I've actually been on both sides of your situation I didn't plan to have children and had an absorbing career, so lost some friends when they 'vanished' into parenthood though not all -- and when I decided to have a child, just short of 40, some friends couldn't handle it at all, because I'd moved categories in their heads, or because the idea of me having a child caused them pain.

Two very close friends (an apparently contentedly childfree couple in their 50s, but the man in particular was one of my closest friends in the world), faded away, and only gradually did I realise that, long before I'd known either of them, they'd tried to have a child, early IVF failed multiple times, and they had almost split up over whether or not to adopt.

Another friend, also very close I'd stayed at her house and at her parents' numerous times over the years simply never contacted me again after I told her I was pregnant over coffee, where she seemed very happy for me. Eventually I stopped just leaving her messages. Nine years on we're tentatively back in contact, though we've never discussed the split, which I think may also have been down to her own feelings about not having had children -- was too old when she met her partner, though this had been years earlier. But I value her friendship, even on the terms we're on now.

I think the most hurtful one, though, was a friend made when we were both postgraduate students at the same institution, saw one another daily for two years, did social things together, confided a lot in one another etc. Then he got a fellowship at a different college less than a mile away, and simply never got in touch again. What had been an important friendship for me had for him been purely a friendship of circumstance for him, and when I eventually ran into him a year after I'd stopped leaving him messages, he simply didn't understand why we couldn't just go out for a drink as if we'd just seen one another the day before.

I was hurt by all of these I had a dream about the couple the other night, and that all happened ten years ago! but they're no reason to give up on friendships entirely, any more than individual bad experiences are a reason to give up on something life-enhancing.

GrandUnion

You make some really interesting points: I also had a child relatively late in life and I had a couple of friends successful, career-oriented, child-free women have that "category adjustment" moment with me. One in particular, who had been a partner in crime for 20 years or so when we were both mainly single, really struggled with it and we had some tough years when I felt she was judging me and trying to control the way I ran my life and brought my child up. We've more or less got past it now.

I think having children or not having children can be a real flashpoint for female friendships and if they are not fundamentally strong they sometimes don't survive.

But I think its important to remain optimistic and open. People come around and adjust. It's perfectly fine to decide that a person doesn't fit with your emotional needs at that point but I don't think its helpful to see the door as being closed forever.

Don't get me wrong, I do have friendships at present but one is in Europe (pen friend from when we were both in high school, still very close to this day. Been to each others weddings, shared significant news etc over the years - that's roughly 23 years) and another couple of friends but hardly see each other now. As I have said upthread, I tend to mainly see acquaintances regularly, chat to neighbours etc.

Fair enough, thanks for setting the record that it was a friendship of circumstances and to just accept it as that. Didn't realise it was that common. I also do believe that I valued that friendship more than she did.

It is painful to realise you value another person and their friendship much more than they do. I had a friend some years ago we were close and then when she was in an abusive relationship I supported her and helped her get out, with housing, money, furniture as well as emotionally and even renting a van to move her and her stuff out while he was at work.

Then a year later my father became very ill. My father and mother had helped her also and she knew them. When he was ill I was very upset and depressed. I didn't expect anything from her but a bit of emotional support. Instead she froze me out, told me I was dragging her down. I literally got upset once in her company, I cried because I was scared my Dad was going to die and it was too much for her to just give me a hug.

She then pretty much cut me out. A while later I passed her on the street, I didnt know what to do but decided to just say hello. I wasn't demanding we be friends again but thought we could say Hello. She looked at me as I said hello, then turned her head and walked past me. It was awful.

Obviously I valued the friendship far more than she did. Its also occurred to me that as she rebuilt her life after her abusive relationship I was an unwelcome reminder of her past.

So its true some relationships will mean far more to you than they do to the other person.

That said, I think she made most of her friends in her late 40s and 50s,, when most were done with childrearing. Never too late.

@Frequentflier makes an interesting point about her Mum making new friends when she was less bogged down in family life. I’m 46 and am somewhat experiencing the same thing - now mine are teenagers and I don’t need a babysitter, I can do more ( well, prior and hopefully post-pandemic) so I’m meet more people.

It also helps that I’m more confident than I used to be because nowadays I couldn’t care less what people think of me.🤣 We either get on or we don’t- if they act “off” with me, I move on.