To have had enough of step son crying to get out of being reprimanded

[MillyA]

He is 9 and generally a good kid but DH is stupidly reluctant to ever tell him off because he's so sensitive and to be honest I'm tired of it. The other kids get tellings off when needed.

We were all in the living room this afternoon and DSS was playing with the younger ones. He picked up and threw DD (18 months) onto the floor from his standing position, he's quite tall for his age so it was bloody high for a small baby/toddler to drop from.

DD hits the floor with a crash head first and starts screaming, i shouted "no!" and rush over to scoop her up and check if she's hurt.

DSS starts sobbing because he was expecting to be told off, yet upon DH seeing him crying he tells him it's ok it's over with now don't worry

This is just one example in a long line of others where DSS really should have gotten a strict talking to but hasn't.

Two weeks ago he kicked DH full force in the groin (playing) which resulted in DH being unable to talk for a good few minutes and had tears in his eyes, but because DSS turned the water works on he escaped being told off. What should have happened was DH explaining to him in no uncertain terms how that's dangerous and he should never, ever do that.

Obviously I have a DH problem.

WWYD/S?

My dc went nc with their df at 12 +14 for lack of parenting. Their words. They needed boundaries and guidance so now live with me.

Moonjelly, having been a parent for many years, I am able to change a nappy super quick and am able to bath a child whilst talking to another, multitasking is a key skill in parenting

Whilst it's important DSS gets attention here I don't think any of us should be held hostage by his gaming.

Given the amount of 1:1 attention he gets by both me and DH (let alone the other DC who enjoy his company) I don't think it's fair to say I should stop what I'm doing to go and watch his game whenever he asks, especially when I already spend adequate time doing exactly that.

It's never a case of watching one quick thing either. I do often stop what I'm doing and glance over when he asks, but then 5 minutes later he asks again.

I don't know any parent either bio or step who's going to leave a hob unattended to go and watch roblox, or leave a toddler in a dirty nappy longer than nessecary to go and watch a car racing game - esp if said parent has already spent 45 mins to an hour engaging in said play before going off to attend to more pressing things.

He can't be allowed to rule the household.

Plus, if I spend the duration of his time here pandering to his every demand then the other three children in the household are going to be resentful and/or feel neglected.

That would tie in with the fact he never gets disciplined but the rest of them do.

I can't put him on a pedestal above everybody else, but he does receive more than enough attention.

If he had it his way he would receive %100 of our attention and the rest would go without.

Attention needs to be split 4 ways when he's here, but I dare say he already gets more than the others which isn't really acceptable.

I'm afraid I do think there's too much pathologising of bad behaviour, often due to bad parenting in kids these days. I recognise that we needed to, still need to be better at recognising and acknowledging when there actually IS a pathology and handling that appropriately BUT I also have several friends with dc who DO have SN or mh conditions AND their parents wouldn't allow them to get away with behaviour like this either!

Spot on as usual - my approach with my own (now adult) DS with SN was that he'd got problems enough without being a brat as well

I really shouldn't be flippant, and I'm anti-violence to the point of being off the scale, but in OP's position I'd probably feel like kicking DH in the nuts as well ... either way, given his utter intransigence, I worry that sooner or later he'll pull out the "he's not your child so it's not for you to discipline him" card

What a god awful mess

I don't think you're far off the mark puzzled, I could definitely see DH saying that.

I have in the past been told during an argument "he's my son it's nothing to do with you"

@MillyA exactly, he can’t rule the household and it all he about him.

Whether he possibly has SN is neither here nor there really. There are still certain expectations of him. Plus with his age then he needs to grow up

The whole point is that dh doesnt need to shout or even speak harshly to put a consequence in place for dss. So agree if he damages something or hurts someone. Dh tells him he disappointed in his behaviour (if boring the tears) and DSS spends 9 minutes in his room as a consequence. Discipline isnt about screaming, being mean or smacking. Its about consistent pre agreed consequences.

If DSS does something by accident and then panics you have to question does he need telling off?

I'd also put in place a no horse play rule or rough and tumble. Also that we touch touch people unless we ask first - could help with dss irritating your oldest son.

If boring (ignoring)

I don't think you're far off the mark puzzled, I could definitely see DH saying that
I have in the past been told during an argument "he's my son it's nothing to do with you"

I'm very sorry, but not entirely surprised to hear that - though actually I was half hoping you'd shout me down and that in reality he'd never say something like this

Whether or not DH will accept family therapy is probably a moot point, but clearly you're at a crunch point here and as you've said yourself it may be that hard decisions have to be made. It's very obvious that you're an extremely intelligent woman, so I only hope DH can find some of the same so that an even worse outcome can be avoided

I know some PP's are horrified that SS is described as manipulative; I'm sorry to say, it is perfectly possible - but children can, with any luck, be gently but firmly steered on to a better path.
You say that your SS is usually recognised as a well-behaved child; do you think that part of the reaction to reprimands is blind panic that he has fallen short of his "good boy" image? That he is only with you part of the time under sufferance, and is not loved just for himself?
I know this is absolutely not true, and that you give him genuine affection, but is he feeling insecure in this? I agree with the tactic of waiting for the tears to subside, than reassuring him as well as reprimanding him - the old cliche of "Hate the sin, not the sinner", telling him that you want to help him to be a good person because you love him and want the best for him, which may involve the security of structure and boundaries. A child who felt accepted for himself would not be craving undivided attention; they would be comfortably fitting in to a place where they belong.
If you adopt this tactic of bringing him back to the painful subject over and over again, you may find that it gets worse before it gets better (extinction burst) because such a successful tactic will not be willingly discarded, but he's still young enough to be helped to change.
Whether your DH accepts this and comes on board is entirely up to him....I guess he'll be sleeping in the spare room for a while yet.

Banished to the spare room like a naughty little boy

I know you realise how dangerous that was, but stepson clearly doesn't. He should have had to sit with his Dad whilst he rang 111 on speakerphone. Was it not for covid concerns I would have taken him to a&e with her so he gets some sense of the danger of what he had done. Natural consequences.

I have in the past been told during an argument "he's my son it's nothing to do with you"

oh ho ho ho I don't think so.

I would suggest that the next time you're being asked to look at Roblox for the 50th time you just go straight to your not-so-DH and sweetly point out that he needs to come now because there's a child that's nothing to do with me asking for attention that obviously, you won't expect me to give - it's going to have to be you!

Seriously though - you need therapy. If he won't do it, you absolutely will need to get tough on this before your husband's pathetic, cowardly non-parenting drives a wedge between everyone.

I do feel sorry for this little boy, his father is failing him badly... but I feel more sorry for you and your kids, and I would be at the end of my tether with shoring up his petulant, crappy adulting.

He is not your son but his behaviour impacts on you and your children. Pretend he's a neighbours son. I'd have still told him clearly and calmly that behaviour was completely unacceptable. If a child on a play date was nagging for your attention, then they'd be told "I'm busy, when I've finished I'll be in" if they came and asked again I'd ask them what did I say last time?

You can be loving and super clear. If he chooses to cry that's up to him.

You've been told in the past it's nothing to do with you as he's not your son?

And yet he feels free to discipline your son when he does wrong, no?

not on.

For sure there is a huge double standard when it comes to the kids and who reserves the right to discipline.

I do take him to task, rest assured I will always advocate for my children. I've made myself very clear to him. If you don't want to raise your voice or reprimand DSS then you're not doing it to the others.

I'm going to reassess how I handle DSS from now on, I'll reprimand when I feel nessecary and to hell with him or his ex taking issue with it. I'm almost certain that part of his reluctance is because he doesn't want DSS going home and telling tales to his mum but it is what it is.

I will be pushing for family therapy %100

I hope your H appreciates you @MillyA, if not now, then in the future. You are wanting to help everyone and your care for your DSS comes through strongly.
He is lucky to have you

This sounds like a really difficult situation. Both my children have asd and adhd. They still have to be told off for their impulsive behaviour. We’re aware that it’s not often part of their adhd but we have to try and teach them. One finds being told off quite difficult (age 9) and quite often falls apart with the stress of it. But we don’t shout and calmly explain.

Do you think some of it is attention? His siblings are with his dad all the time and he isn’t?

Your dh really should step up but sounds like it’s a case of he doesn’t want to be the bad guy. Rather than parent he wants to play disney dad.

I hope you manage to resolve this and present a United front. A lot of this sounds like a big communication issue with your dh in that he doesn’t want to parent properly.

I agree with @aSofaNearYou a Normal and appropriate ticking off and explanation (or rather solidifying the common sense a 9 year old SHOULD reasonably have) is NOT being "too hard" on him

Tbh I've been involved in guiding and scouting and I came across even then parents who thought even having stern words with a child of this age was being "too hard on them" - utterly ridiculous! And yes those children and their parents were the most awkward and time consuming to handle, both would have benefitted from a little more common sense and discipline and not thinking the world (or at least our meetings and camps) had to revolve around their preciousness! Such an attitude certainly didn't do the children any favours, either within the organisation or at school or generally.

Other kids couldn't be doing with them either and hated doing group activities with them because there was ALWAYS some aspect that they considered beneath them or that they expected others to deal with for them (mainly dirty or tricky things) and they couldn't cope with certain activities if they couldn't be "star of the show" and if they did something that let a group down in some way they wouldn't accept they'd messed up and apologise (these children and their parents HATED apologising for ANYTHING not because they were "upset" but because they never thought of themselves as in the wrong and hated that being pointed out to them or being in a position where they had to admit that even in a 1-1 basis) this is not how the world works!

I've also come across these types (as I'm sure we all have) in the workplace and they also can't cope with being pulled up, in the mildest of ways, when they messed up at work too.

I had one who used to cry every time she was asked to do sluice duty (care home) among other things - tears dried miraculously almost immediately as soon as someone else (usually someone new) offered to do it for them, it got to the point I had to say to newbies not to swap duties with others until they had been there a while and got the lie of the land (I couldn't specify who as that could have got me in bother but man it was annoying!) and yes I had several words with the staff member too but when I wasn't there the other supervisor was a soft touch and fell for her sobbing every time! This culminated in the other staff basically refusing to EVER switch shifts or any duties with her cos she just pissed them all off! She left eventually because it reached a point she wasn't getting away with this shit (other supervisor left and new one was even more no nonsense than me) and couldn't handle it. She went to another home but I quickly heard she was trying same shit there and they plain weren't having it and put her on disciplinary measures! She really couldn't cope with that and left to be a Sahm - how the fuck she dealt with dirty nappies, drool and all the other mess that comes with a baby I don't know she hated anything like that. She couldn't even cope with someone with a snotty nose near her!

From your post on the ball punches op I'm not convinced he isn't disciplined properly at his mums - which means he CAN cope with a proper telling off from dh and he IS just manipulating him.

9 is absolutely NOT too young for this!

I've witnessed my own sister at that age laying on the sobbing, walk out of the room where parent is and the second she knew she couldn't be seen by them wipe the tears away, smile at me and crack on absolutely fine! I'd say by the age of 7/8 she had perfected being able to switch on the tears at will!

Dad was wise to it, mum still (sister in 40's now) falls for it!

He made a comment last night along the lines of "well if I shout at him and then he goes and tells his mum or school that I'm having a go at him"

Classic Disney dad reasoning - and usually wrong! Usually mum is tearing her hair out that all the work she's done with the child in encouraging good behaviour and sanctioning bad is being undone in the time spent with dad, it undermines her "I don't get told off if I do that at dads" "dad says it's ok" maddening!

I'm a "1st wife" op and this shit used to drive me bananas!

Dd was treated at her dads as if she was the same age as her eldest half sibling which when there's nearly a 3 year age gap when they're fairly little still is a significant difference!

On this subject it meant she was getting away with stuff she absolutely wouldn't have at mine and continued certain behaviours at home which meant I was having to work harder to undo the regression!

Wasn't her fault but she was the one left not knowing if she was coming or going. Eventually her stepmum was the one to step in and say to ex it needed to stop! That she was older than her eldest and perfectly capable of knowing how to behave in certain ways.

There were other issues too like ex would insist on dressing her when she was perfectly capable of and preferred dressjng herself or brushing own teeth etc it was hugely infantilising!

The confusion it caused for her made her feel unsettled, excluded at theirs (not part of the family), unsure how to behave and her emotions were all over the place!

@Macncheeseballs yes multitasking is part of parenting - as is triaging!

I can change a nappy one handed super quick but I also know that there are times when a task demands your full attention and another child's (remember there's 4 in ops house when dss is there inc a baby and child with SN) demand for attention for something non urgent may occasionally need to wait 5 bloody mins! It is not unreasonable indeed it's crucial to teach children patience and understanding that their (non urgent) needs/wants will not always be immediately attended to! Again something I've noticed in younger generations is there being too much focus on children's wants/non urgent needs and not enough on teaching children to be considerate of others wants/urgent needs!

This is something my teacher and childcare friends have noted too.

Yes we needed to move away from a point where adults needs and wants were totally centred to the detriment of children, but (at the risk of sounding like my grans!) it's gone too far the other way! The balance needs to be redressed and children taught they are part of a family/group/society and this means that sometimes their non urgent needs/wants won't always be prioritised!

Frankly there are certain posts/posters on this thread I'm fairly sure I can assess their children are also spoilt/being spoilt and not parented in such a way as will allow them to actually cope in the wider world where they will likely get the rude awakening and stunning realisation that hey! No society does NOT revolve around you!

My dc went nc with their df at 12 +14 for lack of parenting.

I had similar with dd. She didn't actively decide to go nc but she did ask that I stop bending over backwards AND over extending myself financially to facilitate her seeing her dad because he pretty much expected me to make almost all the arrangements, pay for and do the travel involved up to and including repeatedly reminding him to book annual leave and telling him when we were due to arrive so he was actually organised his end! Within a year contact had gone by the wayside and he wasn't even phoning her!

She was hurt that he couldn't even make the effort to stay in touch. They recently "reconnected" (dd now an adult) again driven by dd, but the relationship is extremely tense, awkward and difficult. And of course according to him it's my fault, I "stopped" him seeing her - I did nothing of the kind excepting stopping being his "contact pa" he always knew her address (we moved during this time and I wrote c/o his parents address which I checked they were still at to inform him) her sm contact was available to him and he always knew both her and I phone numbers and wasn't at any time blocked from either. She has a disability and has been in hospital a few times as a result. I texted him to tell him inc which hospital and ward and the only response I got each time was "ok thanks for letting me know" not so much as a get well card!! Dick!!

He can't be allowed to rule the household.

You're absolutely right here op

@Puzzledandpissedoff Thank you! I hesitated a little writing/posting that as I am not an expert in SN (beyond minding or babysitting children with SN or their being in a youth group I volunteered with) but the little experience I have and from speaking with my friends/family with children with SN I hear the same sort of approach from them - that their kids have enough obstacles in life without being spoilt being added to them! They mostly have other dc too and their children understand as far as they're able which of course varies, that their siblings have needs too.

I have in the past been told during an argument "he's my son it's nothing to do with you"

Yes that's not on and absolutely cannot happen in front of any dc.

My ex made a similar comment at least once that I know of to wife 2 in front of dd. Dd then attempted to tell on step mum to me about stepmum telling her off. Bad move dd! I then discussed it with her and she had clearly done something she knew fine well she shouldn't! I said to her if she really thinks step mum treats her unfairly then of course she should tell me - but before she does so she needs to think if it would be something her dad or I would also have told her off for and if it is, then step mum absolutely right to tell her off!

I honestly think you may find op that dhs ex isn't as averse to her son being disciplined by you as dh thinks!

I have in the past been told during an argument "he's my son it's nothing to do with you"

That would be my cue to immediately allocate all supervision of DSS to DH. (Arranging custody to times when DH was home only, and allowing no “disappearances”, work or hobbies to get in the way of his responsibilities.)

One thing I think you should consider with DSS that may have immediate and effective impact on his behaviour (my son is older, but I have had issues with his behaviour at times) is to calmly immediately stop his access to gaming as a punishment. (He seems heavily invested and wants you involved as well.) I know my son becomes rude and hostile when he spends too much time on his devices (we call it “Head Up Arse Syndrome”) and he has been like that since he started with the bloody things. (Obsessive.) Anyhow, I think you are probably all over this kind of thing already. You sound like you have a great routine and you are sensible and loving. I don’t for one second think that you dislike this kid or yell at him, like other posters keep blurting out despite what you have stated from the beginning. I think your DH is avoiding the active/accountable parenting role with this child (by being a precious little snowflake himself) and is raising a bully.

My DSS does this a lot and my DH will tell him off then creep round him to stop him crying which boils my piss as my DS is the same age and would never dream of this behaviour. Lately DSS refused to come as I told him off as he wee’d in the garden in front of my son, DH was upset but I refused to get drawn into the games. He was naughty and got told off and I was the only adult here so dealt with it, I won’t not tell him off in my own home if he acts badly and that’s the way it should be!

Great advice above.

Gaming for long periods with younger children makes them very bratty, stubborn and bad tempered.

I certainly saw it here.

Every so often we would do a detox when i had had enough. Within 24 hours this different child would emerge.
And believe me I was a supervising parent with no gaming on school nights etc.

@Graphista makes a great point about children learning to wait.

I recently was chatting with a child physiologist about this and she was saying that smart phones were teaching children that they didn't have to wait for anything.

They had instantaneous access to information and this was following on into other areas of their lives.
They can't seem to wait for anything.

I have definitely seen this in my children and am conscious of it.

Their expectations are huge of those around them, meeting their needs exactly when and how they want it.