To have had enough of step son crying to get out of being reprimanded

[MillyA]

He is 9 and generally a good kid but DH is stupidly reluctant to ever tell him off because he's so sensitive and to be honest I'm tired of it. The other kids get tellings off when needed.

We were all in the living room this afternoon and DSS was playing with the younger ones. He picked up and threw DD (18 months) onto the floor from his standing position, he's quite tall for his age so it was bloody high for a small baby/toddler to drop from.

DD hits the floor with a crash head first and starts screaming, i shouted "no!" and rush over to scoop her up and check if she's hurt.

DSS starts sobbing because he was expecting to be told off, yet upon DH seeing him crying he tells him it's ok it's over with now don't worry

This is just one example in a long line of others where DSS really should have gotten a strict talking to but hasn't.

Two weeks ago he kicked DH full force in the groin (playing) which resulted in DH being unable to talk for a good few minutes and had tears in his eyes, but because DSS turned the water works on he escaped being told off. What should have happened was DH explaining to him in no uncertain terms how that's dangerous and he should never, ever do that.

Obviously I have a DH problem.

WWYD/S?

What he tends to do when there is an argument is fall quiet. He is never the one to revisit the topic after the period of silent treatment. He mills about barely speaking to me and then when he wants to move on from the bad atmosphere he'll become upbeat and try to carry on as usual as though nothing had happened.

So basically he does the same as DSS, makes sure he never has to bear the consequences of what he does, but is bright enough to realise that at his age (whatever that is) crying really wouldn't cut it so he uses a different MO.

@twoshedsjackson

Sorry, I hadn't spotted your post when I wrote the above^^. I wasn't copying, honest.

@MillyA

Oh and a blanket ban on picking DD up off the floor.

I don't mind him putting her on his knee if he's sat down but I'm putting my foot down about lifting her when stood up.

It should be a blanket ban on picking up any child 6 or younger so both the toddlers and any other young child around you is included. Then he can't drop or throw them on the floor or ground.

He clearly hasn't worked out that due to his bigger size he can easily hurt younger children.

DH does exactly the same as DSS minus the crying, yes.

To be honest I'm sick and tired of DH's lack of communication in general and this is just another example of him failing to discuss like an adult.

As sad as this may be to admit, I sometimes think me and the kids would be better off on our own. Me and DH are polar opposites in terms of communication and problem solving.

I would not stand for this,why are you op?
Your baby should have both parents protecting her but neither of you are prepared to do it.
Your dss has learnt from this he can throw your dd around and neither of you will do anything about it.
You are all to blame and I'm shocked that this little child is in danger in her own home.
Sort the situation out before she gets seriously hurt.I would not allow him anywhere near my child until he had been properly told off and totally understood he was never to touch her again.

I rather suspect all four kids, DSS included, would be better off with you as their resident parent. Have you thought about discussing with DSS the crying and wanting boundaries - he sounds nice enough to at heart that it might help. Even something as blunt as "mate, why are you crying, you're just being told off the same way as everyone else is, because you are just as much part of the family".

Glad the links were informative op, I've seen similar play out in my family, golden child is now in their 40's a single parent and being regularly bailed out by my parents as they WON'T eg stick to a sensible household budget. My mum is genuinely worried that when parents pass as all the help they give will then disappear that they'll end up broke and homeless...

...they won't, they'll find some other sucker! They already manage their "friendships" according to what people can and will do for them eg potential "new" friends husband owns a car dealership "great, I can get a cheap car out of them" potential new "friend" is a Sahm as they're supported by high earning husband "great, I can get loads of free childcare out of them and they'll feed my kids well and I won't have to" potential friend is well off "great, I can 'borrow' money and never pay it back" you get the idea

As a result they've never held a job longer than a year, an address longer than 2 and a relationship longer than 5. Friendships fall by the wayside when the "friends" realise they're being used and get wise and drop them, at which point golden child slates them widely and publicly and moves on or rather "promotes" the next sucker to "best friend" having been grooming them in preparation.

It's quite skilful the manipulation!

However gc also moans that they're lonely, can't understand why they've been unable to build a career and feels incredibly jealous of people with close relationships to others - aggressively so.

I doubt your dh wants this future for his son.

I'm willing to bet dh was/is a gc too given his own dysfunctional response to criticism and conflict.

My sibling will LITERALLY stamp their feet, put fingers in ears and shout over the person trying to confront them.

Lax parenting invariably comes back to bite parents in the arse during the teen years IMO.

Yep! I've seen this happen so much not only with dds peers but also as someone who was in voluntary roles dealing with teens. It ALSO backfires on the kids as other kids WILL NOT tolerate "spoilt brat" behaviour and they're a LOT less diplomatic than adults! These children are excluded, have trouble making friends (because they tend to want the friendships to centre their needs and don't reciprocate) and even have other kids outright and blatantly rolling eyes each time they stamp their feet and demand they get their own way (literally or figuratively) and will explicitly say to them that the reason they've not been invited to play a game or a party or day out or whatever is BECAUSE their behaviour is unacceptable

Kids don't pull their punches!

Excellent doggie video @ArnoJambonsBike and point was spot on!

Good luck with the talk tonight

Glad to hear you've found the information useful. You seem like a great caring parent who wants to make things better for everyone.

It does sound like your DH has poor communication skills and the therapy can help him learn healthy ways to deal with conflict and to be more assertive. I would insist on the therapy and parenting classes. It would be a turning point for everyone to make things better as a family.

Best wishes with the talk.

OP.... I don't see anywhere that indicates you don't love him in your posts. People will see what they want.

For example. If he's playing on a game and asks me or DH to watch but we're busy cooking/cleaning/working on the laptop etc and say to him "Sorry DSS can't watch you right now busy cooking/whatever"

He will say ok but then a minute or two later come back and say the same again.

Cue repeating "can't right now mate, bit busy"

Ok he says.
5 minutes later "come and look at this"

That can go on for the duration of him being on the game.

Yeah....most 9 year olds would get it.

I'd probably stop what I was doing and give them 2 minutes of my time.

Well it was a complete waste of time talking to DH, nothing but petulance from him.

His POV was that he didn't tell DSS off because DSS has a 'panic attack' when he goes to address anything. He doesn't have panic attacks at all. He cries.

He said he doesn't want DSS to be scared of him (there has never been a reason for him to be scared of DH)

When I pressed him on that he said he just gets scared when people shout which also isn't true as he doesn't bat an eye when DH raises his voice to the others.

I pointed out how he treats them all so differently and he said he doesn't but if he does then it was an isolated incident.

I gave many other examples to show that he was talking rubbish.

He then said the reason he may treat them differently is because DSS knows when he has done wrong, whereas the smaller ones don't, so he needs to make more of a point with them.

His ending statement was "well I'll just treat DSS worse than I do the others then" implying that I want him to mistreat him or something - that fucking hurt.

I don't even want to look at him now.

The conversation about this came at the tail end of an argument about something totally unrelated so it probably wasn't the best time to address it but I wasn't going to bed for a second night without it being resolved.

I'm rapidly reaching the end of my tether with him and this thread will serve to remind me why he's an absolute shit who can't be communicated with. I've had enough.

I'm sorry to hear that you've had such an abysmal poor response from DH, but possibly not surprising as this is his learnt and ingrained behaviour. The backlash of saying he'd treat DSS worse was an attempt to get you to back down. In his mind this should work, because he knows that you are fair, scrupulously so, and you should stop him doing this. But in reality, it's because he knows you are right, everyone on this thread knows you are right.
It's going to be a difficult time for you; not only changing the way you treat DSS by adjusting your kid-glove handling to something more realistic, fair, and in line with how you treat the others. But at the same time, dealing with the sulky man-child that is your DH. And you know this change needs to happen.
So, give him a taste of his own medicine. Tomorrow, carry on as though he has accepted all your points; that you will both start dealing with DSS in a fair manner, and that you and DH have agreed you will both speak to DSS and explain how things will be different in the future. It's for everyone's benefit, not least DSS, and the whole family will gain from the change.

Forgot to say - Good Luck!

One of my kids is like this. If he hurts or upsets us he’ll totally over-react, start crying, say ‘you hate me’ etc. I’m trying to explain that you are a good kid, but your behaviour in this case isn’t good and you need to explain yourself, apologise, go to your room or whatever.

Yes, my kid does this. Only at night when he's shattered and unreasonable. "No, I'm not staying with you until you go to sleep". "THAT'S BECAUSE YOU DON'T LOVE ME".

Only, he's just six. And he's growing out of it, because he gets firmly but lovingly told not to be so silly. Every time.

I'm with you, OP.

So, give him a taste of his own medicine. Tomorrow, carry on as though he has accepted all your points; that you will both start dealing with DSS in a fair manner, and that you and DH have agreed you will both speak to DSS and explain how things will be different in the future.

That is more or less my plan exactly yup.

I managed to get all my points across so if there's any good that came from the discussion then it's that. I've said my bit and he has heard me.

There's no more picking up the younger ones or rough housing.

The only thing I didn't bring up was the question of whether there is SN involved. He wouldn't even take it in, the mood he's in, so I'll save that for another day but will definitely raise it.

He has acknowledged however, that DSS' response to the situations I referenced is disproportionate.

I've shared my concerns about how I'm worried he'll become a target for bullying, he acknowledged that part and said he has the same concerns.

I asked whether he was like DSS when he was a child and he said yes (the extreme crying) although DH would be smacked when he did that, his mum was very heavy handed. Nothing like us.

All in all not a completely fruitless 'discussion' but he undermined the whole exchange with his childish remarks.

We're back to an awkward silence now.

This will be his second night in the spare room.

What a way to live.

For those who asked about DD (that's kind, thank you) she's absolutely fine.

I spoke to our GP this morning who did a consultation over the phone, she didn't think I needed to have her seen based on her assessment of what i told her about how DD is but I'm still keeping a close eye incase anything changes.

She was extremely lucky not to have been seriously hurt.

Wow! That's one hell of a case of denial he's got!

You definitely need to push for family therapy I think and parenting classes and reading parenting books for dh (which I recognise seems completely unachievable at this point)

But this really cannot continue and dh HAS to be made to see what he's doing wrong.

I'm afraid I'm thinking worse case scenario is actually you split, dh gets awarded unsupervised contact and dss ends up seriously harming one of your little ones! And I don't think that's unrealistic to be honest.

In this scenario I would

Go broken record - this conversation is NOT over until he changes and improves his parenting of dss

Refuse to allow dss unsupervised time with ANY of the other dc and certainly have and enforce rules like your eg of no lifting/carrying the little ones while stood up

Tell dss (with or without dhs agreement frankly as his perspective is FAR too biased for sensible decision making!) clearly that he is NOT to be so rough with ANY of the other dc in the way he has been, with specific examples

NO MORE bopping your eldest on the head with ANYTHING (because he clearly is incapable of correctly assessing which item to use and/or the effect)

NO MORE tripping anyone up or similar

NO MORE pushing m

I'm sure you will have a long list op!

I'd also include

If you're feeling the need to cry that's fine, we all need to express emotion BUT it will NO LONGER work in terms of getting him out of bother!

If he's acted or spoken in such a way that someone else has been hurt (physically or emotionally) by his actions or words there WILL be sanctions (you'll know what things would have the correct impact on him and for how long) and he will be expected to be suitably apologetic and learn NOT to do that thing again.

Perhaps even discuss scenarios with him - not necessarily ones that have happened but ones that could happen and ask him to make suggestions on how such a scenario can be best avoided, make it a little game/role play (maybe use soft toys or dolls?) and how the person who gets hurt in that scenario might feel both as a result of the actions and towards the person who caused the hurt.

There's a LOT to unpick and it's going to take time and lots of effort and patience from all concerned, but for all the dcs stake and for the parents it needs to happen.

He actually sounds like a lovely boy to me, and I get the impression he cried because he is so remorseful? In which case, he doesn't need a reprimanding. If he feels shame/guilt/regret/remorse in such strength then a telling off is completely unnecessary. A reprimand is to teach kids the gravity of their mistake. Sounds like he knows, which is why your DH treads him differently. I have two kids who are impulsive and lack remorse and they are disciplined much more seriously than the one who is a mix but much more often apologetic and doesn't need telling off repeatedly for the same thing. Different personalities absolutely do need parenting differently. It sounds like all his misdemeanours are accidental and not wilful? Exactly the type of thing that would be harsh to discipline for?

It sounds like your protective instincts kicked in hard seeing your poor DD land on her head like that so I'm not at all surprised you are so upset, but we're DSS's tears really waterworks to avoid a telling off or remorse? Was he being thoughtless genuinely throwing her to the ground or was he trying to throw her and catch her but missed?

@user68634

He actually sounds like a lovely boy to me, and I get the impression he cried because he is so remorseful? In which case, he doesn't need a reprimanding. If he feels shame/guilt/regret/remorse in such strength then a telling off is completely unnecessary. A reprimand is to teach kids the gravity of their mistake. Sounds like he knows, which is why your DH treads him differently. I have two kids who are impulsive and lack remorse and they are disciplined much more seriously than the one who is a mix but much more often apologetic and doesn't need telling off repeatedly for the same thing. Different personalities absolutely do need parenting differently. It sounds like all his misdemeanours are accidental and not wilful? Exactly the type of thing that would be harsh to discipline for?

It sounds like your protective instincts kicked in hard seeing your poor DD land on her head like that so I'm not at all surprised you are so upset, but we're DSS's tears really waterworks to avoid a telling off or remorse? Was he being thoughtless genuinely throwing her to the ground or was he trying to throw her and catch her but missed?

Welcome to the thread Mr MillyA

He said he doesn't want DSS to be scared of him confused (there has never been a reason for him to be scared of DH)

When I pressed him on that he said he just gets scared when people shout which also isn't true as he doesn't bat an eye when DH raises his voice to the others.

@MillyA
DSS is a frightened child.

He is frightened of his own emotions. He is frightened of his own emotions because his idiot father is frightened of his emotions and has never taught him that we feel strong feelings of shame or remorse, we sometimes deserve to feel those feelings because of our behaviour, but life goes on and relationships can be restored. The world doesn't come to a shuddering stop because we have an unpleasant few hours experiencing the consequences of our choices.

He is also frightened of the power he has over his own father - the power to make his father tread on eggshells around him, the power to make his father treat him differently from the others, the power his tears have. A child needs parents who are not afraid of anything, including him. It is terrifying for a child to sense that his parents are afraid.

But it's not terrifying for a young teen. Your H needs to know that he has about two years before this son of his starts to enjoy his power, and after he gets a taste of that he will be hell on wheels.

Fwiw, it is also terrifying for a child to see himself as the cause of a disruption in the relationship between his parents. (Or even between his parent and step parent). Did your H and his exWife clash over this child and how your H handled discipline?
Make sure that DSS does not overhear any heated discussions between you and DH.
But you are right here and your H simply MUST change his tack. So you need to persist. In a fair and just world they should both thank you some day.

I've been in his life for a good few years but I still don't feel comfortable disciplining him and want DH to fulfil his role in that regard

You need to start being in a position where you discipline him like he's your own. Take yourself out your comfort zone and don't send the message that he rules the roost.

Also give your DH a kick up the arse while you're there!

I actually hadn't read the full thread before replying but had read about 2/3's and I'd not seen the OP's update with her DH's response just after I posted. I had a conversation with a friend about exactly this last week, how one of my children shows remorse so doesn't need such strict discipline. Things like reckless toddler behaviour or manipulative behaviour needs firm discipline. Accidents where the wrongdoer feels so bad they cry do not need a kicking when they are down. Obviously I haven't seen the reaction in person, and haven't been worn down by his frequent tears, but it sounds like the DH understands his sons tears more. I'd be surprised if the boy was turning in tears as an avoidance tactic though.