To have had enough of step son crying to get out of being reprimanded

[MillyA]

He is 9 and generally a good kid but DH is stupidly reluctant to ever tell him off because he's so sensitive and to be honest I'm tired of it. The other kids get tellings off when needed.

We were all in the living room this afternoon and DSS was playing with the younger ones. He picked up and threw DD (18 months) onto the floor from his standing position, he's quite tall for his age so it was bloody high for a small baby/toddler to drop from.

DD hits the floor with a crash head first and starts screaming, i shouted "no!" and rush over to scoop her up and check if she's hurt.

DSS starts sobbing because he was expecting to be told off, yet upon DH seeing him crying he tells him it's ok it's over with now don't worry

This is just one example in a long line of others where DSS really should have gotten a strict talking to but hasn't.

Two weeks ago he kicked DH full force in the groin (playing) which resulted in DH being unable to talk for a good few minutes and had tears in his eyes, but because DSS turned the water works on he escaped being told off. What should have happened was DH explaining to him in no uncertain terms how that's dangerous and he should never, ever do that.

Obviously I have a DH problem.

WWYD/S?

He is frightened of his own emotions. He is frightened of his own emotions because his idiot father is frightened of his emotions and has never taught him that we feel strong feelings of shame or remorse, we sometimes deserve to feel those feelings because of our behaviour, but life goes on and relationships can be restored

I feel like this comment needs a big fat

FFS I thought this was a medal. Didn't MN used to have a medal emoji?

I need my eyes tested

It looks like a lime to me

If your husband reckons DSS has panic attacks, then I'm sure he won't mind taking DSS to the GP about that because panic attacks in kids aren't usual. Bet husband backs away from the panic attack nonsense sharpish if you suggest the above! I'm sorry he is being so utterly useless, and letting his whole family, including DSS, down so badly.

You're a very wise bunch here. Thank you. I've taken everything on board and will apply the advice in moving forward.

DSS being frightened of his own emotions makes alot of sense.

Was he being thoughtless genuinely throwing her to the ground or was he trying to throw her and catch her but missed?

He was being genuinely thoughtless as it was a deliberate throw, witnessed by us all. His intention was for it to be fun for her, so it was a huge error of judgment and lack of sensible thought making.

The kicking DH in the balls incident i mentioned in my opening post turns out not to be a one off. I didn't know that. DH said tonight that when he took DSS home and explained what had happened, she said to DH that he has been in trouble for doing the same to his uncle, so he should have known better.

Good suggestion to urge DH to take DSS to the doctor over these alleged panic attacks.

They are most definitely not panic attacks, I know that and I think he does too.

When I corrected him tonight he changed 'panic attacks' to 'panicking'

@GlummyMcGlummerson

FFS I thought this was a medal. Didn't MN used to have a medal emoji?

I need my eyes tested

It is showing as a tennis ball to me

@user68634 to be honest I think just the APPEARANCE of remorse doesn't mean the child (or indeed adult, as I and others have said we've seen similar behaviour in adults too - adults who probably wouldn't be like this if they'd been parented properly)

That's EXACTLY what crocodile tears are - a show of apparent remorse that lack genuine remorse! Or indeed signify not remorse but fear that they will be in trouble and receive sanctions for their actions

I don't think you should be treating any of your dc differently simply because they DISPLAY emotion differently.

Some of the children and adults I've known who feel MORE guilt and regret when something they've done has caused harm to another and are quite hard on themselves have been among those LEAST expressive emotionally

And I'm afraid I do think there's too much pathologising of bad behaviour, often due to bad parenting in kids these days. I recognise that we needed to, still need to be better at recognising and acknowledging when there actually IS a pathology and handling that appropriately BUT I also have several friends with dc who DO have SN or mh conditions AND their parents wouldn't allow them to get away with behaviour like this either!

They'd deal with it slightly differently than they would with a neurotypical/mentally healthy child but they definitely wouldn't get away with badly hurting a person or an animal.

From all op has said I feel confident in saying this is far more likely down to dh's shit parenting (which he apparently also had - care to comment on that op? Not required of course just interesting)

Indeed poor parenting can be a cause of poor mental health and lack of resilience too.

I really feel for you in this situation it's hard not to be flummoxed by your DH lack of action

Have a look for the visible child method of disciplining or correcting your children it may even out the planning field

To me your DSS sounds like he is struggling to fit into either household. He's not a whole part of either (I'm not saying this is true) but from his perspective all the other children live with both parents with the exception of your elder son.

The fighting for your attention is an asking to be treated the same way as the siblings at 9 he knows he's being treated differently and will be internalising that difference perhaps thinking there's something wrong with him. I wonder has anyone actually had a conversation with him about feelings and healthy ways to express them if he doesn't have the vocabulary then he's stuck and the sulk or the crying could be a reaction to that. Shame is awful for a child desperate to please and to fit in. Perhaps if you explained it like that to your DH he may have a different opinion. There's a great book quick read how shame affects children well worth a look

I’ve read the 15 pages of this thread, and was getting ready to post about your DH being terrified of ever feeling uncomfortable emotions, and then projecting that onto his son, and passing it on to him, when I see mathanxiety has posted what I wanted to say.

DH needs therapy to learn to tolerate his own emotions and then he can properly parent his children. Including teaching them how to do so too.

I think you have a big struggle ahead of you OP, but I really admire how clear eyed you are on this, and your willingness to sort this out for your family. I wish you luck.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/panic-disorder/

I would show your DH this from the nhs. From what you described the child is not having a panic attack and that need to get out of your DH had as it's a disorder that he would need medical help from.

The child doesn't want to be told off and starts crying so he isn't. He doesn't need to be yelled at, but he can still be spoken to and explained that he's done wrong

He is doing the child wrong but not teaching him right from wrong

Think about what will be when he's a teenager.... this will morph into something else to not be told off

I haven’t read the full thread, but some of the replies here are downright nasty, and shocking to think some of them are by parents.

Calling a 9 year old a manipulative scheaming little brat? What an ugly, unkind way to talk about a child.

Many other replies have been more thoughtful.

It wasn’t on purpose and he is crying therefore he HAS understood the consequences of his actions. What he hasn’t got is the ability to self-regulate. Either his behaviour, or his emotions.

Questions I would be thinking about:

1. What is parenting like in your home / his mum’s? Is it driven by the parent’s need to express their emotion, or the child’s need to recognise and manage theirs?

Parental behaviour that is putting adult emotions first includes shouting, silent treatment, punishments, enjoyong lots of sun and silly times playing with the children but with inconsistent boundaries about this, i.e. when the parent is in the mood for it. Also over-protectiveness, as parent cannot bear their own anxiety or seeing child take risks/experience failure/get hurt/feel bad things.

Parental behaviour that puts child’s emotional needs first: positive reinforcement of clear boundaries, natural consequences but not punishments, not shielding children from difficult experiences and emotions but coaching them through it and helping them to put the situation right, moving on quickly and making a ‘fresh start’, explaining risk and consequences and then allowing children to make their own choices and own the consequences (within reason), soothing upset and letting the child know they are loved (this is not excluded by any of the above).
It is worth considering what sort of school he is in too. Is it an emotionally-literate environment? Bringing me on to the next question...

1. What is he like in school? Difficulties with self-regulation can show up in lots of ways and is probably showing up there too. School nurse, Ed Psych or Occupational therapy input might be appropriate? Maybe there are family support services in your area that could offer relationship based play therapy? It’s great for helping with regulation. Just an idea.

Good luck.

I seriously think you need to start stepping in and disciplining your SS yourself in these moments OP, don't leave the room, just speak up. I do this with my SS and if your DH doesn't like it, you can point out how extremely inappropriate it is that he disciplines your son but you aren't allowed to discipline his.

It's an uphill struggle because he's only here EOW and (having ADHD) it often takes a VERY long time for lessons to sink in with my SS but some of the things I have taught him and discussed with him, including when he has been in trouble, have stuck with him and made a marked difference to his behaviour. You could lead by example and show both him and your 'D'H that the world does not end when he gets told off.

I dont think either of you are are completely right or wrong. Raising mixed families can be a complicated and messy business, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and ultimately the boy is only 9, which is still very young. I wouldn't be so hard on either him or your dh. We are all human.

The kicking DH in the balls incident i mentioned in my opening post turns out not to be a one off. I didn't know that. DH said tonight that when he took DSS home and explained what had happened, she said to DH that he has been in trouble for doing the same to his uncle, so he should have known better.

It's ridiculous that people are still trying to argue that his behaviour is accidental. Kicking someone in the balls once is not accidental. It might be impulsive rather than premeditated, but it isn't an accident. Doing it more than once definitely isn't.

I dont think either of you are are completely right or wrong. Raising mixed families can be a complicated and messy business, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and ultimately the boy is only 9, which is still very young. I wouldn't be so hard on either him or your dh. We are all human.

You wouldn't be so hard on him as to firmly tell him not to throw a toddler to the ground and that this is not good behaviour? Because that's what OP wants to happen.

9 is more then old enough to know not to throw a living creature or person to the ground, he isn't a baby. I wouldn't expect it from my SS beyond 4, and there would have been serious consequences for it.The other children should not have to live with the risk of brain damage or worse because their half/step brother is "only human" and can't even be told when his life threatening behaviour is inappropriate. How could that possibly be deemed "hard" on him?

We have the same situation here, only now after years of getting away with it, and now a teenager the behaviour is appalling and she cannot be reprimanded for anything. Tears and lies to deflect and the lies are dangerous. Sad to say I'm scared of her as is my husband because the tears lead to lies. We cant now deal with any bad behaviour as she's learnt how to manipulate her way out of it. Your husband needs to deal with him, I wish I'd known this years ago

@Macncheeseballs

I'd probably stop what I was doing and give them 2 minutes of my time.

Not something you can do easily if you are mid nappy change or toddler's bath time.

Seems like his mum is more on the ball (sorry, pun not intended) by saying he was in trouble for kicking his uncle. The parents should have a discussion now that the subject has been broached. What punishment does she give him, so his dad can get a backbone follow through on this too and not wimp out at the first sign of tears

When I pressed him on that he said he just gets scared when people shout which also isn't true as he doesn't bat an eye when DH raises his voice to the others.

It's not as if anyone even has to shout at him. With the incident with your daughter, for instance, your DH could have sat down with him, crying or not, and very firmly told him how dangerous what had happened was, how much pain he had caused a smaller child and how frightening it was for you and him as her parents, how this wasn't the first time he had harmed someone by acting without thinking, and how he really had to learn to be more sensible. His reaction minimised a serious incident and your DSS will learn nothing from it. At some point he needs to parent his child, otherwise he is doing him no favours at all.

My DD aged 11 is very sensitive and will cry easily, she likes being ‘the good child’ too and she’s usually remarkably well behaved.
We know that she will cry at the slightest hint she is about to get told off too. The difference being that doesn’t stop us from disciplining her in an appropriate way.
I think what your DH is doing is bottling it as he doesn’t want to appear as the bad guy, but as you yourself know it’s doing your DSS no favours whatsoever. I think you are doing all you can to resolve the issue, but ultimately you DH needs to get onboard too.

What is parenting like in your home / his mum’s?

I honestly couldn't tell you how parenting is at his mums, but here we have set times for dinner / screens / homework and his school reading must be done before play. There's alot of positive affirmations / praise / time spent playing with the kids. It's quite a fun and loving household.

What's he like in school?

Well behaved generally. I've never got wind of him kicking off or being rude to teachers. The only feedback worth noting in terms of negative behaviours is that sometimes he lacks concentration.

I agree with those of you saying I have to step in and reprimand myself from now on, I will be doing.

I don't even know if DSS' mum knows about the incident with my DD. I wouldn't put it past DH to not have mentioned it.

DH bottles it yes, spot on.

DSS getting tearful and panicky when he expects to be told off - unnerves DH.

He made a comment last night along the lines of "well if I shout at him and then he goes and tells his mum or school that I'm having a go at him"

We just got a text as I was writing this post from DSS mum. A child in his class has tested positive for covid so he has to isolate and she won't be sending him here this week.

He made a comment last night along the lines of "well if I shout at him and then he goes and tells his mum or school that I'm having a go at him"

I think dropping your DD on a hard floor does warrant some shouting tbh. It sounds like your DSS is continuously being allowed to dodge consequences by getting in there first with crying to dis-arm your DH.
If your DH doesn’t want to shout as he think DSS panics, then there can still be a chat about how dangerous it was, why didn’t he think that for himself, it’s not ok to be careless with smaller children etc etc. That would still be disciplining in an appropriate way but not allowing DSS to disengage with the ‘aftermath’ for want of a better phrase. Although I do suspect you know all this yourself!