Donald has barricaded himself in the WH and we have Georgia on our minds. (Trump thread #113)

[TheNorthWestPawsage]

Will Donald pardon the turkeys or will the turkeys pardon Donald?

Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4072846-He-can-thcream-and-thcream-until-he-s-sick-but-the-US-has-taken-its-future-back-Trump-thread-112?watched=1&msgid=101645744#101645744

Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time ...

I breathed a long sigh of relief less than 2 weeks ago but starting to panic again with stories of court cases, non certification and appointing electors and the election ending up in the House.

It's just mind blowing that this is happening in the US - hitherto the land of the leader of the 'free world'.

It's all dangerous stuff. Even after we get to 20 January, how can Joe Biden even begin to heal a country (and its democratic process) which has such divided and different views and** sort out Covid.

Oh I know that him not attending the inauguration doesn't mean anything with respect to Biden taking office. Do you reckon he'll changes the locks to the WH??? Can you imagine?

@CoteFolie

I breathed a long sigh of relief less than 2 weeks ago but starting to panic again with stories of court cases, non certification and appointing electors and the election ending up in the House.

It's just mind blowing that this is happening in the US - hitherto the land of the leader of the 'free world'.

It's all dangerous stuff. Even after we get to 20 January, how can Joe Biden even begin to heal a country (and its democratic process) which has such divided and different views and** sort out Covid.

He's just a wasp in a bottle.

There's 2 ways to look at it. One the one hand, for all the pressure it took, the US electoral system appears to have stood up remarkably well. In a pandemic.

And if the US constitution is worth saving, it will save itself, if that makes sense.

I'm suspecting the harder Trumps heels dig in, the easy he will make it for Biden. A lot of people in government are very serious that they work for America. Not POTUS.

Also the more out of control he goes now, the easier it will be to work out the best way to prevent it happening in future. He's a one man stress test.

This is the enemy.

Mitch McConnell’s Senate has effectively broken our government.

The Senate is a part of the government in the same way a deadly intestinal blockage is a part of the body.
Thread:
twitter.com/juliusgoat/status/1328994291839070208?s=21

And the center of the coup is perhaps our government's greatest single point of failure, which is the U.S. Senate.

And at the center of the Senate is this fucking guy. The most evil man of his age. Perhaps the most evil man this country has produced.
...

Today, the Senate was insane. It was so detached from reality. We voted on judges and nearly confirmed an appointee who believes in the gold standard. Meanwhile, a pandemic is raging, and we are doing nothing about it. (1/2)
The government is going to run out of money in about three weeks, and we are doing nothing about it. One of our members apparently asked the Secretary of State for Georgia whether he could trash actual legal votes, and we are doing nothing about it. (2/2)
twitter.com/sentinasmith/status/1328869292117532674?s=21

I mostly agree with that.

What's scary about the orange one is that he's surfaced that fact that this profoundly anti-democratic movement is not just one man: he couldn't have done what he's done without enablers in Congress, in the Senate, in the White House, in the country.

* It's all dangerous stuff. Even after we get to 20 January, how can Joe Biden even begin to heal a country (and its democratic process) which has such divided and different views and sort out Covid.*

Sadly this is very true. The reassuring thing is that Trump is being thwarted at every stage, and his lawsuits are being thrown out. He can’t interfere with the court process at state level, as they’re independent from the Federal Government.

He can’t do anything about the media other than complain on Twitter.

I am very worried that this will end in serious violence, Trump supporters are armed and could start shooting, with Trump’s encouragement.

abcnews.go.com/Politics/infighting-attempted-coup-trump-team-erupts-chaos-giuliani/story?id=74257079

[quote lionheart]abcnews.go.com/Politics/infighting-attempted-coup-trump-team-erupts-chaos-giuliani/story?id=74257079[/quote]
I wrote this of the UK last week.

It's all gone a bit Downfall, hasn't it ?

@Mittens030869

I am very worried that this will end in serious violence, Trump supporters are armed and could start shooting, with Trump’s encouragement.

This is America we are talking about. Trump detractors are also armed.

In fact it's possibly that which is preventing escalation ?

@DGRossetti True enough. Hopefully that will continue to be the case.

In fact - paradoxically - this is probably exactly the situation the people that big up the second amendment were envisaging. In nothing else I bet it gets referenced the next time there's a debate.

Anyone else remembering the end of the T1000 in Terminator 2 ? Thrashing through all the layers of deception as it's consumed by the unforgiving molten steel ?

(I can think in pictures, just can't draw them. If anyone wants to make a GIF )

Thanks @DGRossetti and others for your insights and confidence.

The Mitch McConnell/Lindsay Graham/ Ted Cruz stuff makes me worry more than Trump and Guiliani tbh. They give an aura of respectability to the efforts to overturn the election. I read on Twitter that Graham's comment to VP -Elect Harris yesterday was 'if you can pull it off, congratulations'.

If you can pull it off'

The trouble with twitter is that you can't tell the real nutjobs from the pretend nutjobs just whipping up the froth. I suspect there are a lot of TikTokkers just lighting blue touch paper and standing back
But I did find this exchange funny , starting with a (possible) vaccine refuser...

NO! I will NOT allow ANYBODY to inject microbes into my body! They have been proven to develop and become GPS signals so the government can track you. For the future of America and for our CHILDREN, DONT TAKE THE VACCINE!

My cell phone can barely keep a charge to GPS me to McDonald's. And you think some microbe can track you via GPS

@CoteFolie

Thanks *@DGRossetti* and others for your insights and confidence.

The Mitch McConnell/Lindsay Graham/ Ted Cruz stuff makes me worry more than Trump and Guiliani tbh. They give an aura of respectability to the efforts to overturn the election. I read on Twitter that Graham's comment to VP -Elect Harris yesterday was 'if you can pull it off, congratulations'.

If you can pull it off'

I had to swallow the US constitution whole to help my DB get his citizenship. That's a lot of history too. (I've probably forgotten far more than I ever knew though.)

I won't say it was designed to withstand this sort of situation. But I also bet that Washington, Franklin, Jefferson et al wouldn't be surprised either. It's not perfect. But the people who are clever enough to know how to circumvent it are also the people that are least likely to do it.

The price of liberty is eternal vigilance

and if as a society we find it "too hard" to be vigilant then we pretty much get what we deserve anyway. The UK was lost years ago, but maybe there's a chance for the US to save itself.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/rudy-giuliani-trump-court-pennsylvania-election-b1724816.html?amp
A rusty Giuliani returns as an attorney as he argues Trump has been robbed of the election
Over the next several hours, he fiddled with his Twitter account, forgot which judge he was talking to and threw around wild, unsupported accusations about a nationwide conspiracy by Democrats to steal the election.
No such evidence has emerged since Election Day.
Giuliani needled an opposing lawyer, calling him “the man who was very angry with me, I forgot his name.”
He mistook the judge for a federal judge in a separate Pennsylvania district who rejected a separate Trump campaign case: “I was accused of not reading your opinion and that I did not understand it.”
And he tripped himself up over the meaning of “opacity.”
“In the plaintiffs’ counties, they were denied the opportunity to have an unobstructed observation and ensure opacity,” Giuliani said. “I’m not quite sure I know what opacity means. It probably means you can see, right?”
“It means you can’t,” said U.S. District Judge Matthew Brann.
“Big words, your honor,” Giuliani said.

the most powerful man in the world .... is represented by this useless old fart🤣😂🤭

the most powerful man in the world .... is represented by this useless old fart🤣😂🤭

I read a few legal commentators noting that in the US (I also imagine the UK too) there are severe sanctions - up to disbarment - for attorneys who knowingly submit, or allow their client to submits false and time wasting claims and evidence.

There was a interesting line in the reporting from a link earlier in this thread where a judge said that they weren't going to allow counsel to withdraw immediately. Which suggests they may have a few choice words and possibly sanctions in mind.

I don't expect any of this to change a single Trump supporters mind. They'll just increase that list of people who are "in on it", in much the same way the Apollo Hoax morons have to keep adding the FBI, the CIA, the KGB, MI5, MI6, MFI and Uncle Tom Cobbleigh into their universe to explain away the wrinkles.

There's an old folksie saying about not wrestling with a pig. You both get dirty. And the pig likes it.

Very disturbing that there is trouble with certification at county level in the run up to state certification. I think we all feel that it would be too far a stretch that states could certify against the will of the people but then there is so much that's already happened that we once felt unimaginable.

I think Biden supporters may need to adopt the "Stop the Steal" 😱

apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-local-elections-michigan-64c18e12e0d409d9629871cda3c07293

I agree Northwest we have a much more dangerous enemy in McConnell and he's not going anywhere for another 6 years. Viperidae Crotalus McConnellii is content toslither through the grass and do his real dirty work quietly. He'll make public statements, sure, just like the rattles of a rattlesnake, but the danger is in the silent strike not the rattle. The rattle is just a warning.

Scrotus is a more 'visible' enemy because of his need for constant validation and publicity but it's not the enemy you see that you truly worry about the most. McConnell'smain work is done behind the scenes. Luckily Pelosi is well up to wielding the power of the House just as well as McConnell does in the Senate. Checks and balances. And now that we'll have a responsible man in the WH we may be able to see those checks and balances work again.

The thing is, Trump doesn't care if Rudi loses.
He just wants to challenge these losses in front of SCOTUS, unfortunately he has to go thru the lower courts first.
But I assume there is a procedure to get to SCOTUS otherwise every single lost case would end up there?

Michael S. Schmidt
@nytmike
NEW: Giuliani wants to be paid $20,000 a day for his representation of Trump to overturn the election results, raising concerns among Trump allies that Giuliani is encouraging Trump on spurious legal fights so he can make money off of them. w/
@maggieNYT

Giuliani is gifting the grifter...

I'm guessing but I expect there must be some threshold to get to the next level court but even if it did manage to get to the next level it's likely to get dismissed there too if it basically lacks merit.