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Donald has barricaded himself in the WH and we have Georgia on our minds. (Trump thread #113)

999 replies

TheNorthWestPawsage · 11/11/2020 09:31

Will Donald pardon the turkeys or will the turkeys pardon Donald?

Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4072846-He-can-thcream-and-thcream-until-he-s-sick-but-the-US-has-taken-its-future-back-Trump-thread-112?watched=1&msgid=101645744#101645744

OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
maggiethecat · 16/11/2020 07:46

Concerned that he’s determined to burn the house down on his way out. 11 million Covid cases in the US and he doesn’t give a shit.

TheNorthWestPawsage · 16/11/2020 07:50

Excellent (if somewhat depressing)

Democracy’s Afterlife (Fintan O’Toole)
Trump, the GOP, and the rise of zombie politics.
www.nybooks.com/articles/2020/12/03/democracys-afterlife/

One thing we can be sure of is that for Trump and his followers there are not five stages of grief, leading from denial to acceptance. The furthest their sense of it can go is to the second stage, anger. Just as there is “long Covid,” there is long Trump. The staying power of his destructiveness lies in the way that disputed defeat suits him almost as much as victory. It vindicates the self-pity that he has encouraged among his supporters, the belief that everything is rigged against them, that the world is a plot to steal from them their natural due as Americans.

...

Usually, at this point, we get the postmortem. But there is no body. The malignant presidency of Donald Trump seems moribund, but also vigorously alive. Trumpism, after all, is a narrative of death and resurrection, in which bankruptcy becomes The Art of the Comeback and American carnage becomes American renaissance. Life after death is its governing trope. On its mental map, the point of no return can never be marked. We have, after all, already witnessed the Good Friday and Easter Sunday of Donald Trump. In a grotesque parody of the Christian narrative, Trump presented his contraction of Covid-19 not as a consequence of his own narcissistic recklessness but as a Jesus-like self-sacrifice—he caught the virus on behalf of the people. Trump “died,” was in the “tomb” of Walter Reed hospital for three days and then rose again and appeared to many. This fable seems to have worked for his supporters, electrifying them with its evidence of their leader’s indefatigability. The deaths of others—230,000 victims of Covid-19 by election day—did not prompt a turn against the president who presided over them. His base acted, rather, as the foil for his miraculous, manic display of vivacity in the last days of the campaign.

OP posts:
Roussette · 16/11/2020 08:19

That's an excellent and true article NorthW.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/16/donald-trump-concede-joke-precedent-us-institutions-democratic

VeryLittleOwl · 16/11/2020 09:33

Chelsea Clinton said there were Trump supporters outside her parents' house last night shouting 'Lock her up'.

twitter.com/ChelseaClinton/status/1328096263523487751

Anon778833 · 16/11/2020 09:48

This is getting out of hand.

Lweji · 16/11/2020 10:01

Yes, institutions rely too much on the good will and character of the people involved.

The Supreme Court shouldn't be for life, but with limited number of years. 10 would seem fine.

The electoral college is anacronic and sensitive to manipulation. Not to mention how undemocratic it is. In fact, some votes don't even count towards an elector.

Meanwhile, the new Administration is shaping up nicely and diverse.

trib.al/TNgJXS8

Grrrpredictivetex · 16/11/2020 10:30

Can I ask who is actually paying for all these failed lawsuits? Seems just madness on every level.

Yohoheaveho · 16/11/2020 10:54

long Trump
Does that have anything to do with 'long pig'🐷?

maggiethecat · 16/11/2020 10:57

I've been examining this morning why I feel so invested in what's happening in the US and it's hard to work out.

But I do know that I feel shock and disbelief that this is happening. It's one thing to think he's a lunatic. It's an entirely different thing that he's duped millions of people and the consequences of that.

littlebillie · 16/11/2020 10:59

His tweets appear crazy

DGRossetti · 16/11/2020 11:05

@Grrrpredictivetex

Can I ask who is actually paying for all these failed lawsuits? Seems just madness on every level.
He's raising money from his supporters. Most of whom probably aren't aware that less than $8,000 goes straight into his political campaigns.

This is one reason why there's a reluctance in Republican circles to stop backing him. He is bringing donations into the party.

However as things stand no lawsuit is going anywhere. And lawyers are withdrawing.

It's all grandstanding and trying to start an end run around the 2024 Republican candidacy to make it look like Trump is the only choice. Be interesting to see how that plays out. I can't see many top flight republics being happy at having to put their 2024 chances on hold for the Trumpster. (Although they may have told him they are, in a shocking display of lying and falling far below what is expected of them ....)

DGRossetti · 16/11/2020 11:09

I've been examining this morning why I feel so invested in what's happening in the US and it's hard to work out.

because for better worse or whatever, the US is a superpower. It exerts great influence far beyond it's geographical borders (pretty much a textbook definition of a superpower). Look at the seismic changes in the UK these past 8 days. You'd have to be a little bit naive not to wonder if they are related to wider world events.

Just as Trump is fighting in the US, the chummy chums who helped the network that put him in power - the Cambridge Analyticas, Steve Bannons, Farages Banks - are either also fighting to stay relevant or (much more likely) taking advantage of all eyes on Trump to slither back into the shadows. Where they can select a new totemic twit to put up in 2024.

MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes · 16/11/2020 11:14

^ This. Where the US goes, the UK follows. Delegitimising democracy there and the installation of new emperors would be echoed here. It would be worse in fact as they’d just take what they wanted from us.

maggiethecat · 16/11/2020 11:30

DGRossetti - I'm not so naive to be unaware of the US' global influence and that what's happening there is consequential to the rest of the world.

It's just deeply depressing that there is so much support for him.

Roussette · 16/11/2020 11:42

How encouraging to see the diversity within Biden's transition team/Administration.
I felt so depressed when I saw this picture of Pence at a womens health caucus meeting discussing health and maternity rights. Not one woman. Not one person of colour.

Donald has barricaded himself in the WH and we have Georgia on our minds. (Trump thread #113)
Anon778833 · 16/11/2020 11:50

So how likely is it that he could actually overturn the election result? I am hoping very unlikely. Can you imagine the fall out of that ever did happen?

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 16/11/2020 11:53

Until we became properly aware of American foreign policy, people in England, at leats of my generation, were inclined to admire the USA uncritically: they may have come in late, but we couldn't have defeated Hitler without them, and after WWII they were not (as England was) effectively ruined, rationed and hapless: they were strong and full of vigour and hope. It wasn't really until Nixon that the gilt came off the gingerbread, in fact. Then we started noticing retrospectively that JFK, whom we had thought to be wonderful (and Tragic and Arthurian and all that hype) might not have been such a great guy after all, and in fact that America had nobody else's interests at heart at all, only her own. It's hard to admire Vietnam and the Bay of Pigs fiasco and the Somali Intervention and the Invasion of Iraq and the whole Contra business. As for Syria ... less said the better, but the absolute betrayal of loyal allies is always ugly.

America is full of good people -- every country has good people! It also (like every other country) has some absolute stinkers, and unfortunately it's always difficult to stop scum from rising to the top. Germany has had that problem, Russia has that problem, China has that problem, the UK has that problem; it would be silly for us to expect America to be uniquely immune.

(Well, not uniquely: the oldest continuous democracy in the world doesn't seem to have had too many stinkers in power over the centuries, once they grew out of their Sagas. But Iceland is a bit of a special case.)

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 16/11/2020 11:56

(That little outpouring was replying to MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes because I started to wonder what I actually think about America, and why. Oh, and I meant "least" not "leats".)

DGRossetti · 16/11/2020 11:56

@SugarbabyMilly

So how likely is it that he could actually overturn the election result? I am hoping very unlikely. Can you imagine the fall out of that ever did happen?
All the grown up reporting I've seen and heard says no. But it sells papers to suggest otherwise.
Anon778833 · 16/11/2020 12:22

The thing I don't understand is, if the reason he doesn't want to lose is to protect him and his family from indictments, won't they all just be there waiting for them at the end of the next 4 years? Plus more probably by then!

knittingaddict · 16/11/2020 12:36

@Roussette

How encouraging to see the diversity within Biden's transition team/Administration. I felt so depressed when I saw this picture of Pence at a womens health caucus meeting discussing health and maternity rights. Not one woman. Not one person of colour.
That is completely nuts. I can't imagine that happening most countries and it's like they don't even care about how it looks, let alone how it's getting the job done.

If the whole Trump thing has shown us anything, it's that the US is an incredibly backward country culturally, and that's been a surprise.

TheABC · 16/11/2020 12:48

I get the stink of desperation. All of the lawsuits are failing in court, but they offer a nice reason to solicit more donations and shore up support.

I can't see Trump succeeding with the "faithless electors" stunt. He can slow down the handover, block funds and generally be an arse. Even this would not matter if it were not for the Coronavirus reaching critical mass in the States.

But it is. At this stage of the game, Trump's neglect has turned actively evil; his failure to act will cause more unnecessary deaths. I suspect the history will be very critical.

Biden (to his credit) is simply ignoring Trump and getting on with the assumption of power. Those decades of political experience are paying off now - he is losing out on the briefings and money, but he is already pressing ahead with preparations.

PatriciaHolm · 16/11/2020 12:48

@SugarbabyMilly

The thing I don't understand is, if the reason he doesn't want to lose is to protect him and his family from indictments, won't they all just be there waiting for them at the end of the next 4 years? Plus more probably by then!
Yes, but there is a lot of legal shenanigans that can take place over the next 4 years if he, essentially, becomes Dictator in Chief. At present he can't be pardoned from State related crimes (as opposed to Federal ones) but who knows what he could manage to change over the next four years?
HoldingTight · 16/11/2020 12:48

I was just reading a very interesting (if disappointing) article about how the Dems might not seek justice re Trump misdemeanours in the interests of American unity. But I've lost it :( If anyone finds it can they pls post? Thank you.

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