To want to know if the Republicans have any grounds to suspect fraud

[DynamoKev]

Not a fan of either Trump or Biden.

Due to Trump's pathetic behaviour it is easy to dismiss his claims.

But some claims (if true) seem to be worthy of investigation.

@Ihaveyourback

Yes and to finish!

Challenging election results, even with demanding recounts or bringing lawsuits, is part of democracy, when the ultimate loser notes the results and concedes defeat, as Gore did back in 2000. Trump and his lawyers should not be condemned, as they have been by many, for pursuing the lawsuits. Once the remedies are exhausted, the American way demands that the loser concedes with the final mandated outcome.

nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/11/bush-v-gore-and-the-2000-election-never-ended.html

The Supreme Court here OP ended the recount. By ending the recount Al Gore in effect lost.

Trump in this case is Gore - except he is arguing it in multiple states and of fraud rather than recounting.

Gore did the right thing 20 years ago to allow the US to continue with democracy - he did not let it burn.

Trump and this lawsuit is not doing what you think it is doing. It is doing the exact opposite. He is putting his own needs ahead of the country and the rule of law

But some claims (if true) seem to be worthy of investigation.

Which claims exactly would these be DynamoKev? (nice user name take on Dynamo Kiev btw)

And how come not of the media from the BBC in the Uk all the way through to the Mail and from CNN right through to Fox in the US have managed to get hold of these supposed alligations and find any degree of substance whatever?

I'd really like to know what you think counts as substance or what evidence you've found that even own team of lawyers have had to appeal for examples of, because they literally have the sum total of fuck all.

Well that was interesting input from what I have to say did sound like the ex-president's PR team. :)

Back to the real world there is no need to urge people to allow the courts to decide claims of fraud since that already happens. There are procedures in place already. No one is stopping them and implying that they are is trying to rewrite history.

I expect one or more of Trumps team will write books later. "The stolen Election!" "Trump Trumped" and "The NWO lizards did it".

There won't be civil war. That's just coming from a lizard fearing, covid denying, moonshine drinking minority who thought he was their saviour.

I don't even like Biden much and some of his opinions bother me, but he's probably a relative safe person to be steering the US for a bit. At least he won't be staying up late tweeting nonsense. I imagine he needs his sleep.

So in the PA late votes story, those votes seem to have been cast in good faith as the rules stated this was allowed as long as they were posted on Election Day.

Seems very sensible to allow this given the covid situation.

So now Trumps trying to find a legal way of moving the goalposts? And you think such a process would be an important part of maintaining the integrity of an election?

Sorry, I’m scrolling past too, read enough of this now and it smacks of desperation.

Anecdotally, I am second hand aware of a woman who claims to have cast an absentee ballot on behalf of her recently deceased husband. For Trump, incidentally.

I am sure that some fraudulent votes have been cast, but not a significant number and not in an organized attempt in favour of one candidate.

BBC has a rundown on the legal cases they've filed and the biggest impact would be if they managed to get the courts to cast out votes that arrived after the election date. This is in Pennsylvania.

While civil war is probably overstating it, longer term civil stability is at risk. 70% of registered Republicans think that Biden has won through voter fraud. That is a serious issue, and won't be resolved through the series of state court actions being brought (and lost) because it's coming from the world of conspiracy theory: the courts finding no cause for concern just stoke those people.

I genuinely fear that Trump will spend the next years stoking resentment, fear and suspicion, and 2024 could see someone like Trump, but brighter and saner, in the Whitehouse on the back of it.

BBC has a rundown on the legal cases they've filed and the biggest impact would be if they managed to get the courts to cast out votes that arrived after the election date. This is in Pennsylvania.
But that went to the Supreme Court a week before the election.
It cannot be overturned

Lets wait and see shall we, because this has a long way to run, and we are not privy to most of the information.

@Ihaveyourback

Lets wait and see shall we, because this has a long way to run, and we are not privy to most of the information.

We rather are though.

Wait and see? No. Hell no. We should all be angry as hell that the current leader of the free world is trying to destroy democracy. This is appalling and we should be fighting the torrent of misinformation flowing about it (primarily from him).

@Dailyhandtowelwash that is exactly my worry too.

@ListeningQuietly

BBC has a rundown on the legal cases they've filed and the biggest impact would be if they managed to get the courts to cast out votes that arrived after the election date. This is in Pennsylvania. But that went to the Supreme Court a week before the election. It cannot be overturned

I thought the Supreme court hadn't ruled on it because it was too close to the election. That's why the ballots were already being put aside before the Supreme court judge told them to put them aside.

Apart from the principle of people who were genuinely casting a legal ballot (at the time) not having their vote counted because of a ruling that might get made after the election, it's not going to make any difference, anyway. For a start even if those ballots aren't counted it won't make enough of a difference to affect the result in PA. And then even if it did make a difference, Biden would only need any 1 of Arizona, Georgia & Michigan or Wisconsin & one of those to lose the election.
And so far the Trump campaign hasn't come up with any evidence of fraud for those states, let alone any fraud big enough that it might overturn Biden's lead in those states. The Wisconsin recount is just wishful thinking.

This election isn't close whatever some people might say.

Biden would only need any 1 of Arizona, Georgia & Michigan or Wisconsin & one of those to lose the election.

win the election.

Actually, there's plenty of evidence of "fraud" -

Voter intimidating and attempted vote suppression (including documented voter intimidation by Trump's BFFs the Proud Boys).
Suing to limit the use of ballot drop boxes in Democrat-dominated areas.
Intervening in a lawsuit brought by members of the Navajo Nation in Arizona over Native people being denied access to mail ballots.
Attempting to shut down absentee ballot access in New Hampshire.
Explicitly telling Republican voters in Wilmington North Carolina to commit voter fraud by voting twice (via voting in person after sending a mail-in vote) to "test" the voting system.
Lobbying for restrictive voter ID laws which would disproportionately discriminate against black voters.
Lobbying for an end to same-day voter registration.
Launching over 40 court cases designed to create barriers to make it harder from people from marginalised backgrounds and people in Democratic strongholds to vote.
Spending months attacking and trying to damage the credibility of mail-in votes, while exhorting Republicans to not use mail-in votes.
All manner of abuses and oppressions of the US Postal Service, designed to destroy or damage the mechanism of postal voting so that postal votes would not be received in time.
Openly admitting to having sabotaged the USP in order to engage in voter suppression.
Encouraging heavily armed militia groups to patrol election sites.
Recruiting election count watchers from amongst known Neo-Nazi groups, leading to violence and arrests.

nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/10/historic-voter-turnout-trump-voter-suppression.html
www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-call-for-poll-watching-volunteers-sparks-fear-of-chaos-and-violence-on-election-day/2020/09/30/76ce0674-0346-11eb-b7ed-141dd88560ea_story.html
time.com/5902729/black-voter-suppression-2020/
www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/01/ben-ginsberg-voter-suppression-republicans/
www.nytimes.com/2020/10/29/us/elections/trump-pennsylvania-voter-suppression.html
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/13/donald-trump-usps-post-office-election-funding

Every single attempt to interfere with voting, has been committed by Trump and his party. So yes there's been "fraud". BY TRUMP. Every single piece of wrongdoing, it's been by Trump. Every single attempt at voter suppression and voter intimidation, it's been by Trump. There's not a single tiny bit of evidence showing Democrats trying to prevent Republicans from voting, or attempting to exclude legally-cast votes on the grounds they are votes for Republicans. There's certainly no evidence to suggest that Trump's current claims are remotely based in reality, and this election and the mechanisms of voting have been scrutinised so carefully it's simply not physically possible that this fraud could have occurred unseen. And some of the claims are just batshit, eg the claim that Trump has a witness who saw people drive up in a Biden/Harris van and start destroying ballots. Does Trump believe we're living in an episode of Scooby Doo? Do people committing crimes of this level usually do them out of a van with their names written on the side?

Trump has been acting illegally and doing underhand and illegal things in an attempt to fix this election for months, maybe years. And yet he still lost. The current sound and fury is just another underhand tactic to engage in voter suppression and sow the seeds of discord. No one in his own party believe that this "fraud" nonsense has legs.

It's either a blatant money-grab (Trump is dead broke, and is attempting to exploit naïve people into giving him money to ensure "a fair count" when his own documentation admits the money can be used for other purposes) or Trump has gone so far off the deep end that he's in some kind of state of psychosis and no one knows how to control him. He's just angry his own attempts to fix the election didn't work, and is now trying to lie to the American people to cause chaos and financially exploit them.

I’m applauding so many posts above. I am so far beyond wanting to be ‘reasonable’ or polite or remotely shy of saying that I want the US President to be law abiding, respectful, intelligent, non-racist, all the very basics that anyone elected to high office should be. After that, I want the UK prime Minister to be those things too.

@PizzzaExpressWoking the scary thing is that people in his party maybe don't believe him, but are going along with it. See Sec of State Pompeo today saying "there will be a smooth transition to a second Trump term". I'm getting seriously worried about what exactly they have planned. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say we're getting into coup territory here.

And agencies have been told not to cooperate with Biden’s transition team. No funding released. It’s all endorsing the fantasy.

It’s funny because people who have talked about Trump’s extreme narcissism predicted exactly this. It’s in Cohen’s book but I always thought it was being over called.

I’ve always personally thought a lot of Trump’s bluster and rage was neurological - the jerking, slurring, foot dragging, difficulties with ramps and drinking water - but maybe he’s just a narcissistic sociopath. Sad that people are being conned to donate money to essentially pay off his campaign debts though.

It’ll be interesting to see how things play out in 4 years with the next republican challenger. Trump won’t be well enough - watch him struggle with stairs, ramps, standing from a seated position - but he did have a unique charm that made the uneducated, white male feel like a king. It’ll be interesting to see if anyone else has this, plus the ability to appeal to more conservative, traditional republicans who fell for his rich, businessman illusion.

You know they're going to find 20 people who died in, say, Michigan in the week before the election and whose votes were counted but probably shouldn't have been according to state laws and claim fraud. Which people will remember the headlines while conveniently forgetting that Biden leads by nearly 150K votes and removing those 20 would make no difference at all to the result.

@nolongersurprised

It’s funny because people who have talked about Trump’s extreme narcissism predicted exactly this. It’s in Cohen’s book but I always thought it was being over called.

I’ve always personally thought a lot of Trump’s bluster and rage was neurological - the jerking, slurring, foot dragging, difficulties with ramps and drinking water - but maybe he’s just a narcissistic sociopath. Sad that people are being conned to donate money to essentially pay off his campaign debts though.

It’ll be interesting to see how things play out in 4 years with the next republican challenger. Trump won’t be well enough - watch him struggle with stairs, ramps, standing from a seated position - but he did have a unique charm that made the uneducated, white male feel like a king. It’ll be interesting to see if anyone else has this, plus the ability to appeal to more conservative, traditional republicans who fell for his rich, businessman illusion.

Tucker Carlsson from Fox is being talked about as the next big thing in American fascism.

No, they absolutely do not. It's a dangerous attempt by a desperate lunatic who can't bear to lose power. And the cowardly, sycophantic, morally bankrupt Republicans have fallen in line behind them. As a U.S. citizen, I am appalled.

Oops, in my outrage I wrote "them" instead of "him."

[quote Timshortforthalia]@sst1234

Here's how I vote in the uk: I turn up, I tell them my name. They let me in. No id required, never even been asked to even give my address. How is that system any less open to fraud than the intricate, crossed checked systems being run in the us this year (oh yeah, and many years before this, which everyone has somehow forgotten)[/quote]
Interesting. In the Netherlands they tell me which polling station (close to home) I can vote. I turn up, three people are present. One checks my id, one checks that I haven't voted yet that day, number 3 oversees the other two. Then I get the voting paper, fill it in and throw it in the locked bin. At the end of the day they unlock the bins and count the votes. That is a process that can be viewed by the public.

It is possible to vote in another polling station (say if your out of town or at your job) but this needs to be requested in advance via the local authority with your id.

Tucker has the perfect racist credentials And a huge platform but he has that resting “duh” face. He also lacks Trump’s so called “business genius”. People voted for Trump so he could “tear it all down and build it up better”. Or maybe now it’s all just about the racism/fascism and there’ll be no pretense that policy beyond that is even important