To want to know if the Republicans have any grounds to suspect fraud

[DynamoKev]

Not a fan of either Trump or Biden.

Due to Trump's pathetic behaviour it is easy to dismiss his claims.

But some claims (if true) seem to be worthy of investigation.

Trump cannot concede the election
because Twitter have said that the moment he does
he'll be subject to the same rules as the rest of us

looking forward to the POTUS account going live again in January

When people talk about Trump’s appeal to working class, disenfranchised voters let’s be clear about where that appeal lies. It’s nothing to do with the policies he’s championed because he hasn’t offered any practical help. Trump has stoked their racism, bigotry and hatred and made them feel legitimate and like kings. That’s it.

I’m sure the next batch of Republicans will try to emulate this from now on but it’ll be interesting to see whether more mainstream, conservative Republicans go along. With this election there was greater popularity for the GOP down ballot than for Trump himself.

Trump has stoked their racism, bigotry and hatred and made them feel legitimate and like kings. That’s it.
You don't think much of the ethics of the working classes do you?

This attitude is what turned lots of non-racist voters away from so-called liberal policies in the UK and the US.

You want to discuss how immigration affects culture and jobs? Shut up bigot.

You want to discuss the reasons behind and impact of racial differences you see in your area? Shut up racist.

You think it is OK to offend people. There's no right to be protected from feeling offended. Shut up hater.

Lecturing and "educating" people in right-think does not win hearts and minds. You create a political vacuum and we all know what happens then.

Trump has stoked their racism, bigotry and hatred and made them feel legitimate and like kings. That’s it

Wow, just wow.

Breathtaking arrogance right there.
Jesus christ.
So just because some Republicans are poor they are now racists and bigots and 'feel like kings' around Mr Trump. Okay

Indeed you need to look at yourself, perhaps it is people like you that are the reason for the surge in support for Mr Trump.
You think so little of half the nation. I am appalled and horrified and done with this thread now. I can not condone senseless posts that are so deeply offensive. I wonder when the Republicans will start fighting back if they are reading this....and then you will have a class war on your hands too, and we know where that leads. Great job. Well done you

Ihaveyourback
I am appalled and horrified and done with this thread now
Bye then.
The sun will be setting over St Basils soon

@Ihaveyourback don't forget to take your fake outrage with you!

It is not fake, I am genuinely disgusted. I am a decent person, and find this kind of behaviour repulsive. I am out. Good luck, you are going to need it.

StrippedFridge I happen to agree with you about identity politics undermining left-wing parties!

However...Trump still lost the election, and there is absolutely no basis to suspect fraud. They have lost I think 13 legal challenges in a row now and yet it seems that Republican voters are more, not less, willing to accept he lost as this plays out. I think the whole Republican party is massively playing with fire by undermining confidence in our electoral system.

Sorry that should have read that as the legal challenges are lost one by one, Republican voters seem less willing to accept he lost. Instead it seems to be fuel to the fire that the courts are rigged against Trump as well and Republican leaders are doing nothing to damp that down.

@Xiaoxiong

Sorry that should have read that as the legal challenges are lost one by one, Republican voters seem less willing to accept he lost. Instead it seems to be fuel to the fire that the courts are rigged against Trump as well and Republican leaders are doing nothing to damp that down.

This is what actually scares me the most. The supposed conspiracy just gets wider and wider in their heads.

It's the lack of critical thought that is so worrying in all of this. And at a bigger level it's really making me question education. We need to be working harder to teach people how to think critically and logically.

It's the lack of critical thought that is so worrying in all of this. And at a bigger level it's really making me question education. We need to be working harder to teach people how to think critically and logically.

Not sure that's such a great idea. It's always the "intellectuals" that get taken out when the populists rise ...

@DGRossetti That made me laugh/snort.

I'm not trying to create a population of intellectuals though. Just raise basic thought processes above those of my 9 year old. Although there's also an element of common sense. Admittedly, my main reason for not buying into conspiracy theories is that I don't believe you can get a massive bunch of diverse people to all do and think and say the same thing all of the time. It just doesn't work that way. But apparently, according to many conspiracy theorists I've met, it's no problem. It's why we don't have a cure for cancer or how supposedly millions of fake ballots are cast.

[quote SpaceOP]@DGRossetti That made me laugh/snort.

I'm not trying to create a population of intellectuals though. Just raise basic thought processes above those of my 9 year old. Although there's also an element of common sense. Admittedly, my main reason for not buying into conspiracy theories is that I don't believe you can get a massive bunch of diverse people to all do and think and say the same thing all of the time. It just doesn't work that way. But apparently, according to many conspiracy theorists I've met, it's no problem. It's why we don't have a cure for cancer or how supposedly millions of fake ballots are cast.[/quote]
It's almost boring, but you can lead a horse to water

And part of the problem is as you raise your learning and critical thinking, it becomes that bit harder to have quite the same level of respect for that person who has a degree and is your boss but is spouting QAnon* bollocks. Especially when it seems all they have to do to dismiss your carefully researched points is say Ah, but you would say that wouldn't you ?

*Other claptrap is available. Sadly.

I think the Internet has a lot to answer for, especially Social Media and YouTube. Obviously conspiracy theories have been around for a long time, but they spread so much more quickly and easily now. They make a certain kind of person feel very powerful and validated. I guess it's like being part of a special club. I don't know what we do about it going forwards really. All we can do is, like @SpaceOP says, try to improve education so people are more equipped to pick out genuine information from the chaff.

Just popped up via FB ...

...
Via @bessel
What will happen on January 20th & the time leading up to it. These are the rules.
On March 4th 1801 the second president of the United States John Adams refused to hand over office to his main rival at the 1800 election Thomas Jefferson.
The rule of midday January 20 had not been written yet. Despite his stubbornness THE OFFICE SIMPLY LEFT HIM!
After Thomas Jefferson was sworn in at an event which the incumbent refused to attend Whitehouse staff started to remove the president’s belongings from the White house (Adams was the first president to reside at the new official residence). All security organs cut all official communication. All presidential staff stopped taking instructions from Adams – THE OFFICE MOVED.
From that time all incumbents at the White House prepare early to leave in-case they see signs of losing to avoid humiliation by the independent organs of state (The Military, The secret Service, The CIA, FBI and all White House staff. They all operate under a code - that of serving a man/woman who has carried the WILL of the people at an election)
As soon as Biden clinches the 270 votes and is officially declared by all returning officers in the states the following is going to happen
1- The secret service divides its attention between the incumbent at the incoming President.
2- CIA begins to brief both (including top secret intelligence which is traditionally reserved for one individual-the commander in chief)
3- The counter intelligence teams of the CIA which ‘spy’ on The CIA also begin to brief both
4- Whitehouse staff begin to prepare to re-do the house in-line with the taste of the president elect.
5- At Midday on January 20 Whitehouse staff remove all his belongings from the house and bring in the belongings of the new president (they wait for no one’s instructions)
6- The deductions for White house rent on Trump’s salary stops in January
7- The deductions for Whitehouse rent begins on Joe Biden’s presidential salary in January
8- Melania Trump stops being the boss of Whitehouse on January 20 at midday
9- Dr. Jill Biden becomes the boss of Whitehouse on January 20 at midday
10- At midday on January 20 all the power organs of the US cut official communication with Trump; The pentagon, The CIA, The FBI, The Attorney General. The secret service maintains minimal communication since it is going to guard the x-president all his life.
11- The BEAST and AIRFORCE ONE salutes Trump for the last time and move their attention to Biden. The BEAST begins to carry Biden’s blood samples as is the tradition.
Without instructions from any one!
It has been so for over 200 years.

YABU, he is a shit stirring arsehole. USA apparently has one of the lowest incidents of voter fraud in the world.

He needs the shit kicked out of him pronto

@DGRossetti I'm not so concerned about what happens if he physically refuses to leave on the 20th Jan - someone has quoted a Secret Services person as saying they "know how to deal with trespassers"!

I'm more concerned about what happens if the Republicans find a way around the Constitution to 'legally' give him a second term. There seems to be differing information out there about this. I think it comes down to how the Supreme Court would interpret the wording of the Constitution when it comes to who chooses each State's slate of electors in the Electoral College. He could be trying to delay the certification of results for long enough that the election can be declared to have 'failed' in certain States where Biden won but the State Legislature is Republican controlled. They could then send their own slate of electors to override the vote. Hopefully it won't come to that...

Xiaoxiong I understand why so many voted for Trump. I would not have. I do not believe for one second that Trump won. I am appalled that the US is allowing itself to be played by a wannabe despot. I hope they can put him in jail for treason, because of this blatent attempt to undermine democracy and the USA's standing in the world. He has been actively preparing for this coup for months.

I think for many Trump has come to represent the 'anti snowflake' choice, most likely assisted by alt right people like Milo Yiannopoulos who is an outspoken supporter and pretty popular in certain circles.

My first thoughts when I heard were

1. would he have cried fraud if the results were in his favour?
2. if he did not trust the people to do their jobs in the first place why not sort it before the election?
3. I heard there was a some fraud thing about Bush Jr and Florida years back but can't remember what that was about but of course it could actually be true I guess, I am doubt it because of Points 1 & 2 though

Haven't rtft but just coming on to say I initially thought it hilarious that he was coming up with the desperate claims of voter suppression (especially after the presser at Four Seasons...) however since then I've been seeing information about how things could go if this continues. It's dark, very dark for all of us if it happens - Van Jones talked about it in October on YouTube t.co/1b6sFDnbV8

The most worrying thing to me is how he is being enabled by the Republicans- hardly anyone is speaking out against him.

He's playing the system.

Don't be fooled by thinking he's now irrelevant.

Crikey, I killed this thread off...... 😳

You don't think much of the ethics of the working classes do you?

In the last 4 years, which policies did Trump champion that addressed working class inequalities?