To want to know if the Republicans have any grounds to suspect fraud

[DynamoKev]

Not a fan of either Trump or Biden.

Due to Trump's pathetic behaviour it is easy to dismiss his claims.

But some claims (if true) seem to be worthy of investigation.

[quote Timshortforthalia]@sst1234

Here's how I vote in the uk: I turn up, I tell them my name. They let me in. No id required, never even been asked to even give my address. How is that system any less open to fraud than the intricate, crossed checked systems being run in the us this year (oh yeah, and many years before this, which everyone has somehow forgotten)[/quote]
In my local area (as it is different for each states), I show up, tell them my name and address and show them my Driver license (my ID)

Years ago, all I had to do is show my voter registration card and that was it.

In England you need no ID at all
turn up, say your name, they tick you off
you vote
done and dusted
no proof EVER that you are who you say

@Ihaveyourback

There is evidence. A full investigation is now taking place:

I understand there are a number of inconsistences:

• Postal votes were irregular and unchecked
• Invigilators were not able to check a single vote due to 'covid' and were forced to stand six metres away from the counters
• Rigging via using absentee votes was prevalent in many states and those that have deceased
• Postal vote system was known to be wide open to at scale fraud. It was present in past elections, and was not fixed

Many of democrats will concede there is some truth to all of this.
The burden of evidence will be produced and examined in court.

Until then NO ONE can claim victory. I am incredulous that just because the media said Biden won somehow that means he has won. In reality it is far from a done deal, and will be contested. Anyone with any understanding of the law knows that we have to wait to the court's conclusion.

Additionally it does not help Mr Biden or the American people to know he is presiding over a fudged and fraud of an election and presidency - and quite frankly could push the country into civil war.

Any victory to claim to victory is premature and the media in general have acted entirely irresponsibly and it has honestly been totally astonishing how it has been reported. We only have to imagine if this was the other way around. The journalistic forces would have left no stone unturned to find the source of the claims.

We have to wait for the conclusion of the legal processes.

Anyone with any understanding of the law also knows that lawsuits being thrown out repeatedly across several states signifies that no evidence is forthcoming.

I notice you don't say that it was presumptive of Trump to claim the victory, despite knowing full well that he announced his win way before the media outlets announced Biden as winner. I don't have a horse in this race but your bias is showing a little.

Sometimes we have to give our address because we are voting our local government or issues. Like the mayor of your town. They tend to share the same ballot as statewide and nationwide. At least that's how it goes where I live. I never lived outside of my own state , even in my own town, so I honestly don't know how other places handle it.

I just saw something on FB that said - “The Republicans couldn’t find the right Four Seasons for their press conference - do we honestly think they’ve managed to uncover 40,000 fraudulent ballots!”

If the Democrats were going to commit fraud they’d have taken the Senate and not lost House seats as well!

And who coordinated it, there’s not a lot of direct contact between local elections officials in random counties in Arizona, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

It’s a nonsense from a sore loser.

I find it so depressing that any one can fall victim to Trump’s (very Russian) disinformation train. You remember this is the guy who was yelling about voter fraud in 2016 despite winning and there being no proof? Why is this any different other than him losing? The man who lied about his inauguration numbers, despite us all being able to see with our own eyes that it wasn’t true.

So far every single one of his “court cases” for this so-called fraud have been thrown straight out and he has yet to provide A single piece of evidence to actually back up any of his claims.

But that’s all by the by. The purpose is to sow discontent and mistrust in the democratic process. Which again, is actually exactly what Russia want to happen. God it’s so depressing.

We will see. I support Mr Biden, I do believe Mr Trump has a case, and it needs to be heard.

Mr Biden should be more embracing of the legal processes and transparency, if there is truly nothing to hide then he will be glad to dispel any claim of fraud. It helps no one if Mr Biden seems to have only won due to election fraud and rigging. A tainted election damages democracy - it will damage Mr Biden's creditability, and don't forget half the country did not vote for him, if they believe he is a fraud they will never support the transition, and violence could spread.

It is far better to allow the legal case to be heard, to consider the evidence and then reach a conclusion.

If Mr Biden is shown to have won the election fairly, the victory will be his - and rightly so, but we have to allow the legal cases to be heard. You can scream it is all fake, but that is what the court system is there for, to settle disputes, to weigh up the evidence. You may feel Mr Trump is playing games, well that will soon be uncovered.

However I think a great number of people on here are secretly worried that there is evidence of serious fraud, and are concerned what it will mean for Mr Biden. You should at least own it, if that is quietly worrying you.

If Mr Biden won fairly, we will soon know. We have to the 8th of December to find out.

turn Underestimating the desperation of some parts of the US to finally get rid of Mr Trump perhaps needs to be considered, they will resort to anything to get him out of the White House. I am sure even you would accept that is a possibility. Of course it is a possibility.

It needs to be heard in court, it needs to be settled properly. There is time to hear the case, and for the real facts to be uncovered. Only then can we announce a true victory.

I literally don’t believe anything I see on line now - especially fact checking sources. World went absolutely bonkers this year.

Does it really matter if it was rigged? No fucker tells the truth about anything ..

I would consider it in one state. Not in 4-5 where some are led by Republicans.

It's a fishing expedition. He was claiming fraud months ago and now wants to try to find it. It's ridiculous. Sure if they present credible evidence then it should be looked into. But so far their court appearances are laughable - complaining about not being allowed guns or binoculars in polling places etc.

I'm pleased that there is going to be an investigation into this because we all need to know the democratic process is fraud-free. I want whoever the rightful winner of the election is, to be POTUS, whoever it is.

Whichever way it goes, his needs proper investigation so that we can be assured that it is worth voting in the future.

No, what we're worried about is after the courts throw out enough of trump's challenges, his supporters will take this as evidence of "deep state" conspiracy and start shooting. People are already making death threats against election officials. If someone is convinced the vote was rigged (even in states with Republican governors, attorneys general, legislatures) there's a significant chance that they'll think any decision that goes against Trump in court is also rigged.

I personally know someone who has succumbed to this madness. The only person who he will listen to is trump, if a concession doesn't come out of his mouth live on TV he will bend over backwards to justify Trump's victory. The vote was rigged, the courts are corrupt, the democrats are buying off the military, QAnon etc. He even thinks a fake concession might be produced, extracted from Trump under duress. It's like watching someone in the throes of a psychotic delusion except I know he has guns in a safe in the garage.

Does it really matter if it was rigged? No fucker tells the truth about anything ..
If it was rigged then it undermines the whole voting process. It undermines democracy.

What if 90% of the electorate voted for Biden and Trump won by a landslide because it was rigged. Wouldn't you be bothered then?

I’m more concerned about Trump’s supporters doing anything to keep him in

If any election was rigged it was the 2000 one in which

Bush won 271 to 266
He lost the electoral vote
He won in Florida by 547 votes in a state where his brother was Governor

There you can easily see how the other side could have won.

It is a weird quirk of the system that a losing side can have more votes than the winning side - but it usually is a losing Democrat and winning Republican. In this instance it hasnt even happened.

There is likely to be some miscounting etc found but that is true in all cases. The sheer number of votes he would need across a number of states (who geographically are at opposite ends of the country) would need a conspiracy on a level not seen before.

This isnt one state - it isnt Florida 2000. It is a huge number.

Donald Trump is clearly doing it this way because his supporters will demand he sees it through - his Party dont want this they are slowly moving away from him but his actions make it difficult. If he wanted to run in 2024 he is clearly forgetting that is the GOP that decides the nomination not his supporters

Where are people getting evidence that makes them feel Trump's claims could be true?

If it's either Twitter or YouTube them I recommend you discount it.

That works for any fact, not just this.

A private party filed a lawsuit in Michigan yesterday regarding election fraud that describes in detail many of the same incidents and evidence President Trump has. You can read a copy of their complaint and get a good idea of what evidence President Trump probably also has here:

townsquare.media/site/656/files/2020/11/election-crimes-lawsuit.pdf

www.wsj.com/livecoverage/trump-biden-election-day-2020/card/XhlCZ4avYQb0jtdv7F3p

“ A team of international observers invited by the Trump administration has issued a preliminary report giving high marks to the conduct of last week’s elections--and it criticizes President Trump for making baseless allegations that the outcome resulted from systematic fraud.”

The evidence will be prepared and given to the courts in the coming days. In that time, the media that have called this election a victory far too early - will now need to cover the legal proceedings.

Mr Biden now needs to graciously accept that the proceedings must take place, in order for the integrity of the elections to remain in tact. If the people of America believe it was a dirty election that was rigged and a fraud, there be further deeper fractures, violence - possibly widespread, and deep malaise with the election process.
It is critical that everyone understands the importance of transparency. Mr Biden in order to have any creditability whatsoever must encourage the legal process to show the election was free and fair, and then he claim victory - and will gain the support of much of the country. Without this he will preside over a dirty election, and will have no right to the presidency. This is how democracy works, and the law is there to protect everyone, not just Mr Trump. I am sure Mr Biden does not want to be accused of being a fraud for the next four years.

The country needs to come together, and it can only do so with accountable transparency.

Does it really matter if it was rigged? No fucker tells the truth about anything

How chilling to read this. It seems many have already given up on the idea of democracy. If this feeling becomes widespread, we are in real trouble.

The legal proceedings must happen, they will weigh up the evidence, and conclude the result. Then and only then can any one side claim victory. It is absolutely critical that the courts are given the time and space for proper investigations to take place so that whoever wins, the US democratic standing remains unblemished and untainted, and largely intact.

[quote MarionberryJam]A private party filed a lawsuit in Michigan yesterday regarding election fraud that describes in detail many of the same incidents and evidence President Trump has. You can read a copy of their complaint and get a good idea of what evidence President Trump probably also has here:

townsquare.media/site/656/files/2020/11/election-crimes-lawsuit.pdf[/quote]
Yeah that is a lot of hearsay, and uses the words apparently quite a lot.

I cant see any actual evidence here at all

Not only that it appears to be in direct contradiction of each other

I didnt get to see the votes but all the votes were for Joe Biden

I think what I can see on this thread are some very worried posts that sense that something was indeed amiss with the elections, and if it is uncovered it could remove the prospect of Mr Biden actually winning.

They don't seem to realise the deep harm that would be caused to American democracy if the legal proceedings do not take place, seemingly no idea of the risk of serious and sustained rioting, unrest and violence as half the nation lose their trust in the democratic processes and legal framework. It unleashes all kinds of truly frightening consequences.

We need to remain calm, allow the legal investigations to do its work, and shown some confidence in the system. If Mr Biden did indeed win the election fairly, we will soon see that result.

Mr Biden and his team should welcome the opportunity of proving the election was clean and fair.

i think what I can see on this thread are some very worried posts that sense that something was indeed amiss with the elections, and if it is uncovered it could remove the prospect of Mr Biden actually winning

Nah

But I disagree with an earlier poster who said your bias is showing a little

I think its showing a lot

And that’s obviously completely and utterly fine, you are more than entitled to your opinion but I personally wouldn’t project too much. I think the majority of posters on here just don’t believe that there has been widespread fraud