To want to know if the Republicans have any grounds to suspect fraud

[DynamoKev]

Not a fan of either Trump or Biden.

Due to Trump's pathetic behaviour it is easy to dismiss his claims.

But some claims (if true) seem to be worthy of investigation.

@Ihaveyourback

listening The margins were completely different in 2016 as you well know!

Indeed, in 2016 it was a MUCH closer election and Trump LOST the popular vote but was happy for it to be called his way

@Ihaveyourback Interesting.

So if there is widespread fraud that has been going on for years, what do you think is the reason the commission into fraud in 2017 failed to turn up any? Were they just incompetent, looking behind the wrong sofa, etc...?

And the great thing is that the courts are there, and it will soon be revealed one way or another.

No need for anyone to 'just accept' anything - it will be investigated and the claims dismissed if they are untrue. There is no question in my mind that given the margins, the only way this can be settled is through the courts. The evidence is either there or it is not.

gwen I don't think enough attention was placed on postal voting.

Oh absolutely @nolongersurprised. It’s very obvious that this has all been planned in advance.

Basically Trump is behaving like a tinpot despot who is supposedly elected in rigged elections. It’s classic gaslighting. He’s up to no good but he’ll tell everyone that it’s those terrible democrats.

After all a vote could only be ‘illegal’ if it’s for Biden. 🙄

@Ihaveyourback

And the great thing is that the courts are there, and it will soon be revealed one way or another.

No need for anyone to 'just accept' anything - it will be investigated and the claims dismissed if they are untrue. There is no question in my mind that given the margins, the only way this can be settled is through the courts. The evidence is either there or it is not.

But the claims are being dismissed in court because the evidence is not there! It's clear that it was his strategy from the start to accuse the other side of cheating if he lost and take it to court. He's trying (and failing) to find evidence to fit what he wants to prove. That's not how the legal system is supposed to work. How long do you want to give him? The longer it goes on, the worse it is for everyone.

Also - There is no question in my mind that given the margins, the only way this can be settled is through the courts. This is not even that close a race! 2016 was much closer.

@Ihaveyourback

And the great thing is that the courts are there, and it will soon be revealed one way or another.

No need for anyone to 'just accept' anything - it will be investigated and the claims dismissed if they are untrue. There is no question in my mind that given the margins, the only way this can be settled is through the courts. The evidence is either there or it is not.

For the courts to need to intervene shows a failing in the politicians.

And the courts are throwing the cases out without hearing them
because there is no case to answer.

Same as you cannot answer why 2016 was just fine with CNN calling it
but 2020 is not

There's a video going round of a reported asking a woman what she thinks of the voter fraud situation (obviously meaning votes for biden) and she said yeah of course it happens, I voted twice for Trump, once last week in one state then again this week somewhere else.

@Walkerbean16

There's a video going round of a reported asking a woman what she thinks of the voter fraud situation (obviously meaning votes for biden) and she said yeah of course it happens, I voted twice for Trump, once last week in one state then again this week somewhere else.

Indeed! The only person so far arrested and charged with voter fraud has been a Trump voter who voted for his dead mother.

Plus, I seem to recall Trump actually telling his supporters to 'stress test' the system by trying to vote by mail and in person. No doubt so that he would have some handy evidence of fraud.

3ormorecharacters

Ten separate court cases have fallen through

I don't believe that is the case, if overall election fraud is suspected this is a matter for the Supreme court. Individual law suits to stop counting or pause counting are separate to the legal action I am talking about.

media speculation

When it became apparent that there were glitches and issues in different states and legal action was possible, any responsible news outlet should have said: 'It APPEARS that Mr Biden has won the election, but this is disputed by the Republicans'.
It should not have been splashed all over the world that is an uncontested victory!

This was indeed a very harmful mistake, because they will now need to row back from the 'victory' and cover in detail the legal proceedings that are going to follow, and in the process they have severely diminished any 'victory' Biden might have had.
The right time to announce a conclusive win is when the matter is finally settled in court. It was intense wishful thinking on their part, willing the victor to take his place prematurely, if they scream loud enough on every channel in the world that will somehow drown out the legal battles ahead and force through a result. It won't work.

No matter what happens in the courts now, his cult will refuse to accept the truth. No level of 'proof' will ever be enough for them now

I don't think it is helpful to call half the American nation 'a cult'. It is exactly why countries are becoming polarised.
I disagree with your view, I think once the courts have ruled on the matter all parties will accept the result.
That will be the best outcome for the country, and then procedures put in place to protect votes going forward. This must never happen again.

Indeed! The only person so far arrested and charged with voter fraud has been a Trump voter who voted for his dead mother

If this is all they have this will soon be uncovered in court. So need for you to worry.

I can see that you don't agree with the matter being settled in court, and it is a shame that you can not see the benefits of this outcome. I find it disingenuous that you are putting your own political views before common sense and logical thinking. The election is not even over yet.

The recounts need to be done
Investigations need to be completed
If fraud has taken place then evidence needs to presented to court

So we are a long way from conclusion. Hopefully democracy will come out all the stronger after this.

Generally when elections are rigged it is by the party in power at the time. It I should much harder for the opposition to do so (not saying that the republicans did rig it, just that it seems unlikely the dems would have been able to on the scale needed)

yet I think it depends on how desperate the people are to get rid of Trump don't you?

@Ihaveyourback

You can not believe it all you like, he has had 10 cases dismissed from court since the election and not one taken seriously. I'm not sure what you mean by 'overall election fraud' - elections are run by states so all of the court cases are at state level. A case will not progress to the Supreme Court until it gets taken seriously at state level - so far not one one of the cases has come close to that.

Not all Trump supporters are cultists, but I'm afraid a great many are and this debacle will only convert more the longer it goes on. If you've ever peeked at any QAnon nonsense or the conspiracy theory drivel on Don Jr or Eric's Twitter feeds you will see that. Facts no longer matter to these people. I think you are very naive if you believe they will be convinced by the courts, or indeed anything at this point.

@Ihaveyourback whether or not a regular person agrees with it, trump team is allowed to take their case to court for the courts to decide. I don't think democracy will come out stronger, there are already sections of people that believe that the whole system, both main parties, high level officials and courts are corrupt. Let alone media (including fox news). My worry is that this section will grow massively and will be exploitable.

@Ihaveyourback for someone who isn’t a Trump supporter you’re doing a remarkably good job of supporting Trump.

Trump openly encouraged voting twice. Ie voter fraud.

He also helped to obstruct the postal system to his own advantage.

Don’t you think such actions are wrong? I think it’s disgusting that he can use these tactics.

Ihaveyourback
I don't believe that is the case, if overall election fraud is suspected this is a matter for the Supreme court. Individual law suits to stop counting or pause counting are separate to the legal action I am talking about.
If you knew anything about how the American legal system worked
you would know that you are regurgitating QAnon Trumpian conspiracy theory rubbish.

I think it’s more of a tanty because he cheated then STILL lost.

A lot of republican states make it extremely hard for minorities to vote.
Or anyone with a felony conviction.

Plus it’s totally legal if your in power to shift electoral borders to give your party an advantage by splitting up an opposition strong area into a whole lot of electorates.
It’s called Gerrymandering.

3 This all remains to be seen - you are jumping the gun somewhat assuming this will not end up in the Supreme Court, I think it most certainly will!

You are being ridiculous if you think a 'great many' republicans are QA supporters. How deeply offensive. Just because you can not understand their values or the way they see the world, it does not make them cultists! It is exactly this kind of language that is so divisive!!

It is extremely dangerous, and you should stop labelling millions of people as cultists just because you personally don't agree with them.

Maybe the reason why the centre ground is losing so much support is because views are becoming much too extreme at either end. And some, like you, are not interested in the common values or coming together - you are simply happy to write off half the country.

Life does not work that way.

It is a compromise and agreed values between all groups. I might not like the republican view on many things, but I understand fully that they have the right to their own thoughts and views. It is utter arrogance on your part to assume your views are the 'right' ones, your world view is the one everyone has to follow.
It is extremely narrow minded, and one wonders how you cope in the real world when people disagree with you.
Do you just scream cult and put yourself in a safe space away from 'other' views?

It is bloody worrying.

He had it pre-planned to go down this route if he didn’t win the election. He was saying days before the election that he would take legal action if he didn’t win it. If he’d won there’s no way he’d be screaming about fraud, he’s just a sore loser.

This all remains to be seen - you are jumping the gun somewhat assuming this will not end up in the Supreme Court, I think it most certainly will!
HOW would it end up in the Supreme court?
Please explain.

What an absolutely fascinating perspective.

So you think that postal voting, which has been in place for years, is rife for fraud, and yet the 2017 commission into voter fraud just simply neglected to look into it?

That truly is an accusation of incompetence. Or do you think they just didn't want to find what should have been the low-hanging fruit?

I've been a voting US citizen for over 20 years so this truly is interesting.

@Ihaveyourback Sorry but I have reached the point now where I don't think it's productive to pussyfoot around and 'both sides' everything. What Trump and the Republicans are on the verge of doing it tantamount to a coup d'etat and they need to be called out on that. People on the Centre / Left are always expected to 'see both sides', be understanding, be patient etc. Well after 4 years of that (on both sides of the Atlantic) it's clear that this approach is not working, and is in no way reciprocated by those on the Right. So I will call a cult where I see one, and I see it among large swathes of Trump supporters.

It is interesting you are saying the Republicans have been involved in wide spread fraud, one has to question why Mr Biden is not calling for legal action of his own? I don't see him lodging any claims to fraud so far, so I think that theory has very little merit.

Indeed I am keen to see a legal conclusion, because I know that is the only way this will ever be truly settled. Any reasoned person would expect any fraud claims to be investigated, and a court hearing to follow.

I am absolutely not a Trump supporter, but I am very passionate about justice and legitimacy. Whatever the court concludes will be very reassuring to the nation, and I for one have far more confidence and conviction in the result, whatever that may be.