To report a friend for fraud?

[ashbashclash]

I've been good friends with a woman for over 15 years now.
She is a carer for her dad who has dementia and has been since her mum died.
She works part time hours (16 hours )
Now she spends a lot more than she earns.
Before lockdown she was going on weekends away,concerts etc
She is always shopping,not expensive things but still shopping.
Her dads dementia is pretty bad so she will be dealing with his finances and he will be oblivious.
She invited me to his birthday tea party in January and he didn't recognise me.
I think she is spending her dads money.
Do I report this?
I don't think it's fair for her to get away with this.
Although if she has been dipping into his money and I report her,what would happen to her dad?
Would he be moved in care facility ?
What do I do for the best?

@strugglingtomakesenseofitall

You should make a safeguarding referral to adult social services and they can investigate. It dosen't mean she will no longer be able to care for him but an appointee could be made to look after his finances. Financial abuse is really common, it's worth reporting it.

But why would you? From experience we only really investigate if the vulnerable adult is ‘at risk’. From all OPs posts this doesn’t appear to be accurate.

Of course the OP is going to go ahead and report this 'friend', despite her protestations to the contrary. Had she definitely decided otherwise she wouldn't keep posting here to justify her position.

See, others can make assumptions too. Only at least for this one there is ample reason from the OPs messages to lead others to that conclusion, and it's not one that's going to end up hurting anyone, destroying their reputation or leaving a vulnerable man potentially without a carer. All of this of course being on the basis of no other 'evidence' than a suspicious mind and an apparent desire to do harm to someone who must be suffering quite enough already.

I'm not into pile-ons but will say on this occasion, OP, that you sicken me.

Now hiding this thread.

@ashbashclash, you are a truly awful person.

This woman who thinks you're her friend might have had a conversation with her father years ago about his wishes. It's a highly personal matter, the business of that family only. She doesn't owe you an explanation and that's probably why she got awkward when you quizzed her. It's overwhelmingly more likely than your bitterly concocted scenario.

So she's living beyond her means - so what, lots of people do, lots of families have arrangements that mix their finances. Why does it bother you that she mustn't have a penny more than she earns through her job, if it's not jealousy?

You're bothered that she's getting something you're not. But be honest, would you walk a mile in her shoes, with the heartbreak and toll of caring for a parent through dementia? Take a long hard look at yourself. Despicable.

[quote ashbashclash]@Eckhart I'm assuming she knew I was onto her.
[/quote]
I'm assuming she was gobsmacked that a supposed ' friend ' would think such a thing of her!!! I'm dumbfounded that your go to position regarding a friend of 15 years , with no evidence as you yourself admit, is that she is stealing from her father. It must be so tiring being you and thinking the worst of people

@ashbashclash

Years and years ago someone reported me for benefit fraud(I was not guilty ) I was asked to a interview and it was awful and humiliating. They recorded everything I said I don't think it's fair some people actually do it and that's it.

So here it comes - the real reason for all this nonsense ! You've been accused in the past and can't let it go

Of course the OP is going to go ahead and report this 'friend', despite her protestations to the contrary. Had she definitely decided otherwise she wouldn't keep posting here to justify her position

Yes, the constant justification is concerning, in the face of an avalanche of 'DON'T DO IT' posts. I don't think I've seen one post on this thread saying 'Sounds like it's a good idea to report her.'

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

Of course the OP is going to go ahead and report this 'friend', despite her protestations to the contrary. Had she definitely decided otherwise she wouldn't keep posting here to justify her position.

See, others can make assumptions too. Only at least for this one there is ample reason from the OPs messages to lead others to that conclusion, and it's not one that's going to end up hurting anyone, destroying their reputation or leaving a vulnerable man potentially without a carer. All of this of course being on the basis of no other 'evidence' than a suspicious mind and an apparent desire to do harm to someone who must be suffering quite enough already.

I'm not into pile-ons but will say on this occasion, OP, that you sicken me.

Now hiding this thread.

I think the same too....

The whole posts by the OP stink of jealousy, don't have a bit of proof behind them and like many posters have said 'who needs friends...?!'

But I think OP is secretly jealous/envious whatever and thinks she is justified in 'doing the right thing'. Hopefully the Office of the Public Guardian (if it's been done by POA) might decide to speak and investigate OP a bit more thoroughly before they proceed with an investigation.

It is honestly quite quite sickening (I've worked in a law firm where we have had occasionally had enquiries along this line, mostly we told them where to go unless they had significant proof) that someone thinks this way, but jealousy can make you do many things.

Let's hope the DF in this scenario doesn't hear of any of this vitriol because the shock of this if he heard (and he probably, no definitely believes his DD) might cause stress which could lead to something more serious.

[quote ashbashclash]@strugglingtomakesenseofitall it would probably make sense for someone not related to look after his finances.
Someone posted down the thread that social services can manage vulnerable peoples finances,that would probably be the most sensible option.[/quote]
Oh f*ck off - you have no idea about how POA or LPA works do you?

why don't you butt out unless you actually know about how this works?

@CleverCatty why are you quoting what someone else said and swearing at me?

I actually know a lot as have worked as a specialist in the field of mental capacity, as I said previously. Why are you so angry you need to vent at strangers anonymously on mumsnet?

@ashbashclash

Years and years ago someone reported me for benefit fraud(I was not guilty ) I was asked to a interview and it was awful and humiliating. They recorded everything I said I don't think it's fair some people actually do it and that's it.

I don't believe a word of this. I think you were guilty. Or I think you had done something similar but not been caught.

You know what happened years ago with me? My best friend (C) of 20 years suddenly got something into her head that someone was pretending to be her with benefit fraud, I think at a post office, withdrawing money and pretending to be her, it could have been me - or our other best friend she'd known 10-15 years too. This other best friend (S) I knew was a bit sneaky - sold things of her DM's etc. But there was no proof. and my best friend (C) of 20 years wasn't lily white herself either. I actually gave my other best friend (S) a heads up of what the first friend (C) was planning to do - shop her - as my other best friend (S) had recently had a baby. And I was disgusted with her accusing both of us. We never did find out what happened and I don't know if C actually made this up for attention or something. C rang me up at work (she was on benefits but a single mother) to have a go at me about this but met me once after this too before not speaking to me again (eventually).

She eventually told me she didn't think I'd done it because I didn't have the bottle - not because I was her best friend! I worked, was well off compared to her so didn't need to do this. It destroyed our friendship and though we speak now I still do not know - we never found out - how she could accuse me! We were such good friends my DM wanted to (but didn't) adopt her as a little girl, as she had a neglectful mother.

My whole point is - it is a huge betrayal of a friendship and especially of a close one of 15 years - if it was less or you weren't such a close friend or for how long I think I'd be more lenient on you - but a close friend for this length of time just doesn't do this! You seem to know an awful lot about your 'friend's' credit card amount - etc - very worrying. Concentrate on your own life.

I think @CleverCatty was responding to the original bit of that post, which had in turn been quoted.

[quote strugglingtomakesenseofitall]@CleverCatty why are you quoting what someone else said and swearing at me?

I actually know a lot as have worked as a specialist in the field of mental capacity, as I said previously. Why are you so angry you need to vent at strangers anonymously on mumsnet?[/quote]
I am not swearing at you. quoted wrongly. apologies. meant for OP.

@HollyandIvyandallthingsYule

I think *@CleverCatty* was responding to the original bit of that post, which had in turn been quoted.

yes that is correct

Wow, some friend you are!

Mind your own business. Are you jealous of her? I can't think why else you'd want to deliberately make her life hard in the middle of a pandemic.

A pretty nasty thread all in all!

To be able to boast of such a longevity of friendship, and not feel as though you can not question her actions directly to her face, but rather ask for advice from strangers via a web site, is baffling. It would be best if you confronted her with your concerns and the fact that have considered reporting her to 'the powers that be' to investigate her personal finances. Finances that you are not privy to! Let's see whether the friendship can survive into its sixteenth year!!!

After my father passed, my mother received a letter from the revenue announcing an investigation into her finances. They had very little money at any stage of their lives, and this 'investigation' caused stress in the extreme. Particularly as she had just lost her husband of 51 years and was suffering from serious health issues herself. It turned out to be an administrative error, and was stopped with a retraction letter (no apology).

My advice is to butt the hell out of other people's business unless you have absolute proof a misdemeanour is in play. Really awful form.

I'm not sure where it's came from that I'm jealous.
All I know is if she is guilty she will get caught and get into trouble for it.
That's what I'm saying.
I'm not jealous of her or anything.

YABU

I think you could do an awful lot of damage- the stress and anguish of being investigated for this sort of allegation is likely to be significant. The potential consequences for both your “friend” and her dad are profound. For instance, if he requires live in/round the clock care then he may well end up being removed from his home (and possibly even prevented from seeing his daughter) whilst investigations are ongoing.

If you have no concerns over his welfare, know that she “loves him to bits” and cares for him well etc, then do you think you are acting in his best interests to go around flinging accusations for which you have no proof? You have very little to go on even to be suspicious, to be honest. Before causing a lot of distress and heartache, I think I would want a lot more than “x spends a lot more than I think she brings in” to conclude that she must be stealing it from her dad.

I think you should rethink whether this woman is your friend. You don’t appear to be acting like a friend- if you were really her friend you would talk to her about matters rather than raising a safeguarding concern on very little evidence.

I’m not against reporting of safeguarding concerns, but these should have a reasonable basis, as false/vexatious allegations can cause so much harm.

the jealousy accustions are because you have no basis for your allegation that youre convinced is happening because your friend used to go to cocerts and shopping

what else is there shes your friend clearly has more spending money than you and you dont like it

@BarbaraofSeville

She might earn a decent wage and have low outgoings, meaning she has a decent amount of spare money.

She might be in debt. She might have savings.

She might have inherited from her DM or another relative.

She might have power of atorney and/or her DF might have agreed that she could spend his money on herself. After all, if he is ill with dementia, he's probably not able to spend a lot of his money himself.

He might be paying her to care for him.

Of course she might be spending his money, but there's also lots of reasons why the situation may be perfectly legitimate.

All of this.

You sound very jealous.

I'm starting to think OP is trolling. They know the thread is pissing people off and keep making similar posts justifying themselves. There's been no attempt to engage in the conversation for ages, except to say 'I'm not jealous, honest'.

OP, why do you think it's ok to think something so horrible about someone you call a longstanding good friend who you know takes very good care of, and loves her father? What justification would you have for reporting this? Given that your only evidence is that she seems, to you, to spend (not even a lot) beyond her means? Why do you think you know enough about the situation? Why do you think it's your responsibility? What other reasons can you imagine for her seemingly slightly too high wealth?

There are so many questions you've just ignored.

Yeah...surely no one is actually so utterly lacking in self awareness.

I honestly pity the type of person who might write a thread like this (whether genuine or not!).

@Eckhart there is zero point in me saying anything as when I try and explain my thoughts behind it I get accused of jealousy.

[quote ashbashclash]@Eckhart there is zero point in me saying anything as when I try and explain my thoughts behind it I get accused of jealousy.
[/quote]
Well yes because you've still given absolutely no indication as to why you're so certain this apparently kindhearted friend of yours is doing the unspeakably terrible thing of stealing form her father.

Im still completely baffled. No one who claimed to be her friend would have this as their first thought even if they had some evidence, let alone being so sure shes guilty without any shred of evidence at all. If you truly were her friend this wouldn't even cross your mind.

@LittleMissLockdown I've told you all why.
The amount of money she spends and I know it won't be credit cards either.
That's why I'm sure.