Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To question what Biden's win means for any UK trade deals (economy)?

274 replies

Officebox · 07/11/2020 21:03

I'm delighted about Joe Biden's and Kamala Harris' election win! Great news! The world seems to be happy about this result too! Yay!!! Smile

However, reading reports about the future of UK and US relations following this change in power at the White House, AIBU to be a bit worried for Britain? Confused

The UK is in the middle of Brexit trade negotiations that will impact the economy. Can/will the Biden win impact trade negotiation deals one way or another?

Boris Johnson congratulates Joe Biden on US election win 'Special relationship' may face downgrade...

"They won't be seen as natural allies: Joe Biden, the seasoned Democrat, and Boris Johnson, the bombastic Brexiteer.
In looking at how their future relationship might work, it's worth considering the past. Specifically that seminal year, 2016, when Donald Trump won the White House and the UK voted to leave the EU. Both Mr Biden and his boss at the time, Barack Obama, made no secret they preferred another outcome on Brexit." - Jessica Parker, Political Correspondent

A special relationship or back of the queue: What could a Biden or Trump victory mean for the UK economy after Brexit?

Brexit and the US election: What the Trump v Biden result could mean for the UK

And many more...

What's everyone else's thoughts?

OP posts:
Songsofexperience · 09/11/2020 09:52

But that would only be
'until Great Birnam wood to high Dunsinane hill
Shall come against him'

DGRossetti · 09/11/2020 10:19

@TheKeatingFive

Trump backed Brexit because he was told it would lead to an independent Scotland where he would be King Grin

And he’d be invited for tea with the queen at least once a month. Fact.

Are you in my head Grin

I'll be honest you can spin any amount of bollocks stories about the reasons for Brexit and make more sense that 4 years worth of being told about the will of the people or somesuch slogan.

Anyway, Trump is already convinced he's royalty. He said once that everywhere he goes he hears "King Trump" - so it must be true.

(I may have made that up too.)

And the Four Seasons Home Improvement Depot ? That wasn't a mistake. That's actually where George Washington buried "Betsy" - the ax he felled the cherry tree with - in the event that America needed him to rise to save it again.

More bollocks you might believe coming soon, first the weather.

Havanananana · 09/11/2020 10:28

You are hubristic to pretend you can second guess what was in the minds of 52% of the population

Only 36% of the electorate voted for Brexit. Approx. 5% of the UK population, including over 3 million EU citizens, had no vote at all. Many British citizens living abroad, including in the EU, were denied a vote due to the 15-year rule.

Much more important is the increased power to shape and control our regulatory and business environment and free ourselves of EU rules on state aid and expand the patent box so fostering R and D. Freedom from EU state aid rules will also help to fulfil the goal of rejuvenating the poorer parts of Britain and level up the economy.
This is why we CANNOT have a level playing field. If we have this we will be snookered

One of the big successes is UK innovation, supported by grants and tax breaks for R&D. Unfortunately the UK government has not tied this to a requirement to manufacture in the UK, so there are companies that have taxpayer supported R&D campuses in the UK but make all of their products elsewhere. A certain company making expensive floor cleaners springs to mind as an example.

There are many other regulatory and other benefits to local industry from Brexit, but these are the most important and completely depend on TOTAL freedom from EU regulation. This is what is meant by Sovereignty. It has nothing to do with immigration.

What are these benefits? None of the major British industries, or their Associations such as the CBI have been able to see any benefits in Brexit. Small export businesses are facing complete ruin. Why are German and French industries able to prosper, and sell far more products to the new economies such as China, and yet still operate under EU rules?

If the UK as an industrial and services nation wants to sell to the EU, it will have to work under EU rules, which for the last 47 years, the UK has been instrumental in forming and regulating. Selling to the US involves handing regulatory control over to the US, with disputes settled by US trade tribunals composed entirely of US-industry nominated adjudicators. Under US trade rules, if a US company feels that it has been unfairly treated by the UK, it can sue the UK government and the UK competitors.

Total freedom to make one's own rules is a meaningless concept if nobody else agrees to it, and if the far bigger countries and blocs have the economic power to shut out any country that does not adhere to their rules.

These are issues freely discussed before the referendum and you should not project your own ignorance on to others.

What was discussed was two opposing views - one that said that the EU would roll over and give the UK everything that it wanted, and that countries would be queuing up to do deals (neither of which has happened) and the other which said that Brexit would cause enormous harm to the UK, both politically and economically, and which was dismissed and infantilised as Project Fear.

Biden cannot be allowed to derail the Brexit negotiations, even if it means sacrificing a deal with the US.

Biden's interest in the Brexit negotiations is based not only on trade, but also on the political investment that the US Democrats made in the Good Friday Agreement. Democratic Senator George Mitchell was the driving force behind getting all parties on the island of Ireland around the table and the US is the guarantor for the GFA.

Biden's opinion of Johnson, Gove and the UK government is of great importance for US-UK relationships. It is Johnson who is seen as a British version of Trump, wedded to broadly the same policies. Gove was the first British politician to meet Trump after Trump became President. It is Johnson who championed the Brexit legislation through Parliament, Johnson who signed the Withdrawal Agreement, and Johnson who now wants to tear up his own Great Deal and in doing so break international law.

MyDingALingADingDong · 09/11/2020 10:33

Im sorry Mindy but you do not speak for everyone here. I am in the North of Ireland. Johnson is not my PM and this is not his country

He IS your PM and it IS his country. You might not like that, but it doesn't make it any less true!

TheKeatingFive · 09/11/2020 10:51

I am in the North of Ireland. Johnson is not my PM and this is not his country

He IS your PM and it IS his country

This right here is the genius of the GFA in action. It allows the original poster to hold her opinion at an ideological level
and that formed the basis of peaceful co-existence.

MyDingALingADingDong · 09/11/2020 10:52

Unless you mean the actual North of Ireland, as in Donegal, as opposed to Northern Ireland. Clumsy way of putting it though.

venusia · 09/11/2020 12:36

*But reading this thread, and the comments about rolling into bed with the Russians and China, in pique at being held to account in international agreements, makes it seem that the U.K. is morally bankrupt.

Perfidious Albion lives on?*

I read those comments differently from how you read them. My reading was that should the US and EU flatly refuse to deal with the U.K., as some earlier posters seem to hope, then the U.K. will have to be open to other allegiances and Russia and China would be options. This is a situation that I don’t think any of the U.K., EU or USA would actually want, so let’s hope we can all come to an agreement.

TheDowagerDuchess · 09/11/2020 12:42

I think it’ll be better for everyone, including all parts of the UK, to have a decent, reasonable person in the White House now, rather than that orange horror.

Biden might not be pro Brexit or even massively pro Uk (although I’m remembering Farage’s “he hates us” comments about Obama) but it’s much better to have a stable government in one of the world’s biggest powers.

Bluethrough · 09/11/2020 12:51

My reading was that should the US and EU flatly refuse to deal with the U.K., as some earlier posters seem to hope, then the U.K. will have to be open to other allegiances and Russia and China would be options

Will never happen, the US and the EU will want a change of tack from the UK, away from right wing populism.
Given our PM's always like to be seen to walk hand in hand with the US President, expect that change very soon.

Cailleach1 · 09/11/2020 13:39

What is it with some people? Remember when John Taylor (Lord Kilclooney or summit aggrandising) couldn't bring himself to refer to Leo Varadkar by name and simply called him the 'Indian'. He has done the same with Harris. Called her just the/that 'Indian' with American citizenship. I think some people can't cope with the fact other people exist in the world.

Maybe 'Harris' is a bit difficult to get his tongue around. Why is he so bothered with people of Indian descent that he can only call them the/ that 'Indian''?

Considering the population of India, it doesn't really whittle it down?

Cailleach1 · 09/11/2020 13:44

Do people really think that Trump would have been anyone's ally? Is that because honour, loyalty and integrity are the exact words you'd associate with him.

LookItsMeAgain · 09/11/2020 21:34

@GirlsBlouse17

The UK and USA already do alot of trade without any deal so a deal is not completely necessary
Are you really that dim?? The UK and USA trade together because the UK is PART OF THE EU.

As of 31st December 2020, you're out. So you will need to set up new trade agreements. With EVERY COUNTRY YOU WANT TO TRADE WITH. Scratch that. The UK can trade automatically with countries that are part of the British Commonwealth. That's about it as far as I know.

If a trade deal with the US is not necessary post Brexit, then I'd have to ask why everyone is struggling between Westminster and Brussels and Strasbourg to get a deal past the finish post. They shouldn't need to sweat it at all.

Officebox · 09/11/2020 22:44

Gosh. Been busy irl and just came back to see the thread.

Interesting responses. Fingers crossed it will be ok for Britain. I feel that Brexit is like when parents divorce and need to be child focused, so regardless if you’re for/against Brexit, it’s important to be country focused. This is our home, where we live and where our children will have futures. So, these economic trade deals are really important to all of us, regardless of our stance on Brexit.

I’m hoping Biden’s win will make Boris think twice and hopefully make wiser choices. We can only hope!

OP posts:
LordLancington · 10/11/2020 01:18

I think lots of people ignore the fact that many likely voted for Brexit partly through desire for independence, as an aside from the economic aspects. Similar to how many women would rather be self sufficient in a middling job than be a filthy rich trophy wife.

Helmetbymidnight · 10/11/2020 05:41

I think lots of people ignore the fact that many likely voted for Brexit partly through desire for independence, as an aside from the economic aspects. Similar to how many women would rather be self sufficient in a middling job than be a filthy rich trophy wife

this kind of stupid analogy really exemplifies brexiteer thinking. They still have absolutely no idea what theyre talking about.

BefuddledPerson · 10/11/2020 05:49

although I’m remembering Farage’s “he hates us” comments about Obama

I think it's perfectly possible for a US President to dislike Farage/Johnson and still like the UK well enough. Farage and Johnson don't represent the whole UK, they just speak for a portion of the country.

OchonAgusOchonO · 10/11/2020 11:13

I don't think "like" is terribly relevant in international relations. Any competent and principled leader will work with whoever they have to work with to achieve their aims even if they have to hold their nose while doing so.

derxa · 10/11/2020 11:23

@OchonAgusOchonO

I don't think "like" is terribly relevant in international relations. Any competent and principled leader will work with whoever they have to work with to achieve their aims even if they have to hold their nose while doing so.
Exactly. They're politicians not people taking in a popularity contest
DGRossetti · 10/11/2020 11:32

To soon to tell how team Biden will shape up, but it's one possibility that he might take on the really pressing issues - Covid, and the state of the US generally, and deputise VP Harris to be a more international presence. Which could be worth watching.

I doubt it will be like Veep running gag:

Did the President call ?
No.

ragged · 10/11/2020 18:04

Outgoing administrn is doing a lot of sabotage to the incoming transition team. The new administrn is going to be slow to get to grips with most things.

Pepperwort · 10/11/2020 21:03

Fwiw China isn’t a presence in North Europe. I do not think we will see a presence from China in North Europe. Geography speaks. If we are being carved up between powers it’s between US, EU and Russia. China will come to some arrangement with Russia. It has been suggested that Russia is already heavily involved through the banking sector.

Shuddawuddacudda · 11/11/2020 11:26

Well it was clear Trump hated China - Huawei/spying/5G/chinavirus etc. He also hated the Russians - interfering in elections etc. Don't know how Biden feels about the Chinese or the Russians. Has he said much? In international politics, I'm not sure Boris can get away with what he has gotten away with under Trump. I think Biden might not be so admiring of Boris/Brexit as Trump has been. I'd say it's probably a fundamental difference between Republicans and Democrats rather than a personal difference. Then again, Trump was a bit out there even as a Republican. It will be interesting.

Cacacoisfarraige · 11/11/2020 14:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Shuddawuddacudda · 11/11/2020 16:19

Oh thanks for the correction. I thought there was some kerfuffle about Russian interference in elections, but maybe it was from the Democrats.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread