DS bullying a child at school

[orangesalad]

Posting for traffic and name changed as potentially outing.

Found out today that my ds13 has been nasty to a child at school today... throwing food over the child's head, making a laughing stock out of the child's dandruff (which was caused by the food my ds dropped on him) the child was also pooped on by a bird and due to that and my son throwing food over them the child threw their blazer in the bin at school. My ds13 seems to be having a good laugh about it with his friends over WhatsApp which is how I've found out and what bothers me also is my DS was telling both myself and my DH about how this 'crazy' kid had thrown their blazer in the bin at school today. We asked why and he just said he didn't know and the conversation moved on.

I'm going to speak to DS in the morning and see what he says but I've already seen what happened via his phone. I will also call the school first thing Monday but I just feel so disappointed and sorry for the child this happened to. Having been bullied throughout my school years I understand what impact that can have on a child and so I've spoken to my kids many times and encouraged them to be kind. Wwyd

How will giving him extra housework or taking his phone away make him more compassionate towards others?

The root cause of the behaviour needs addressing; punishment doesn't do that (and may make him resent the other child, which is the opposite of what you want).

Nothing would make me more ashamed.
I would be on him like a ten tonne truck. To be honest he would have been hauled out of bed no matter the time and I would spend the whole weekend making him wish he was never born. This kind of thing boils my piss. He would not be doing anything more than breathing without permission. Don't mean for a week or two either. Any tech would be in a bath of water and no chance of return.

Maybe some think it's extreme but that is disgusting behaviour. I have seen what that does, its not just now its the rest of someones life hes messing with.
I would bully him relentlessly. Honestly, I'd reduce him to a snivelling wreck and if he composed himself I'd start again. Really hamming home that feeling of everybody picking on him. Maybe make him realise how shit it makes you feel. Then when he's a puffy red faced mess I would be taking him to this kids house to knock on the door and appologise to him and parents with cash for a new blazer.
They would have it explained that if their son felt better without him in the school anymore then the he would be removed and sent somewhere else. No probs he would be out of the school and sent somewhere he knows no one. Bugger if he loses his friends, will do him good. Sounds like he needs to learn, and fast.

And what do you think that will teach your child?

Do you think that the takeaway there is that bullying is absolutely unacceptable from anyone, in any form?

@Buddytheelf85.

Completely agree. Bullying the bully is a funny way to send the message that bullying is wrong. We moved away from "an eye for an eye" type justice a long time ago in this country.

@Iwantalonglie

Absolutely - and it won’t work. It might address the immediate behaviour in the short term, but only because of fear. But in the longer term, parental bullying will create an angry, mistrustful man who thinks power is there to be abused and is resentful of women having any authority over him.

And we all know how great those kinds of men are...

I completely agree with iseeu. Your ds has had major adverse childhood experiences as an infant which may have caused attachment issues.

Reduced empathy is certainly something some of these children can display, regardless of how good the parenting he has received since has been. He needs assessment ASAP.

Assuming this is all completely true , there are several issues at play here.
A child who was abused and neglected during his early years.
What steps were put in place to support the adoptive parents? What support is available when the child reaches puberty and starts acting out?

What is the role of the school in this? It may sound off the wall but is an appointment with a GP worth a go? Is DS affected by the pandemic, is he afraid?

Have you ever heard of the drama triangle, victim, perpertrator,rescuer. What is going on psychologically here.

'You've wasted your money because im not wearing it'

This is very rude and unacceptable behaviour from a 13 year old. Your parenting style seems to hinge on a series of complex negotiations which opens the door for more back chat, and stokes his victim thinking.
You also seems to swing about between benign freedom , complex rules and what is bordering on abuse ( the suicide videos)
Please get professional help and leave the poor kid who was bullied to quietly go about rebuiding his school career. No grand gestures and new blazers.

I want online last night so missed most of the thread but this kind of thing would absolutely make me bring in the harshest punishment for the longest time. What if your DS' behaviour caused that poor child to hurt himself or worse?

I think all the people advocating draconian measures are ignoring the impact of this child's difficult early years.

OP are you in a position to access therapy and/or specialist help? My friends adopted 5 yo twins who had a terrible start in life and their parenting approach has had to be very different as a result.

You sound like you are doing an amazing job but you all might need something extra/different.

*wasn't

Gosh orange is the drink of choice this morning.

OP keep on doing your best 🤞🏻 Parenting is hard, stay strong 💪

I hate this "the bully is also a victim" tripe. Bullying is not about the lack of compassion, it's about hierarchy. Happens in every group, especially with kids. I think making him work is a good idea.
Also it's important to reconcile the kids. Joint activity of some sorts. I.e. your kid can play the console if he invites the other kid over.

I saw a video earlier this year where a dad had dragged his son to a supermarket to apologise for his behaviour after he found out the son and his freinds had abused and threatened staff and customers. The dad gave him a right bollocking in front of everyone, told him how ashamed he was and that he never brought him up to be like that. He also listed a bunch of punishments his son would be doing.

If this was any of my children I would be doing this. I would drag them into school in front of all the kids they were trying to impress, make them apologise, give them their own blazer or the money to replace the old one and handing down more than a months phone ban. I would also be contacting that child’s parents to apologise. And telling all the other parents who’s kids were involved.

I don't think putting it on the internet is a good idea. Kid made a mistake- it needs to be corrected. Digital footprint unfortunately cannot be corrected.

This boy is troubled from his past.
IME of bullies as a teenager I now as an adult see the bullies were also masking pain, a need to punish others, pass on their pain.
OP I'd involve professionals. I don't think he is a bad child who enjoys being vindictive his past is hurting.
My own DS has the potential he has all the markings lacks empathy, everything to him is an injustice etc.
I have him in play therapy as he is younger and diagnosed with mood disorders and ADHD.

I don't think putting it on the internet is a good idea. Kid made a mistake- it needs to be corrected. Digital footprint unfortunately cannot be corrected

Firstly, the ‘kid’ didn’t make a ‘mistake’.
Secondly, for the other boy, nothing can be ‘corrected’.

Putting it on the internet is a really bad idea. Borderline abusive, in fact...

I understand lots of people here are up in arms about the OP's DS bullying this poor boy, but please don't suggest that the OP, who is in a position of trust and responsibility as a parent, bullies her child in return and takes action which may cause him (further) significant psychological damage.

We're adults here. We need to behave as adults and deal with children fairly and appropriately.

I dont think its necessary to detail the punishment online either. I think youve done enough already. Wait and see if hes learned his lesson. Dont forget you still need to be his safe place, even if he acts like a prick. The school will be dealing with it too.
I was bullied at school and whilst bullying needs to be tackled, using more and more severe punishments both at home and at school, detailing how you would publically humiliate them both in person and on the internet just sounds fucking sadistic to me. You wont make a better person out of him that way.

Firstly, the ‘kid’ didn’t make a ‘mistake’.
Secondly, for the other boy, nothing can be ‘corrected’.

He is 13, kids that age just do not think about long term consequences. It's not like he killed a pet. As for the other boy - amends can be made, there is potential they can become friends.

@RhymesWithOrange

I think all the people advocating draconian measures are ignoring the impact of this child's difficult early years.

OP are you in a position to access therapy and/or specialist help? My friends adopted 5 yo twins who had a terrible start in life and their parenting approach has had to be very different as a result.

You sound like you are doing an amazing job but you all might need something extra/different.

In fairness, the OP didn't say her son was adopted until we were 13 pages in (out of 18) In a way, that information makes it less awful- bear with me- whatever his early childhood was like, it will have had an effect. Add to that parents who have indulged him and been less than firm on transgressions, the demanding (and buying) of designer clothes etc and you've got a perfect storm. A teenager who believes he's untouchable. Until yesterday..

Good luck OP. (I did find the comment about "loving him like a son" a bit odd. But I'm sure you don't say that to him. Hopefully.

@CatsArePeopleToo

*Firstly, the ‘kid’ didn’t make a ‘mistake’. Secondly, for the other boy, nothing can be ‘corrected’.*

He is 13, kids that age just do not think about long term consequences. It's not like he killed a pet. As for the other boy - amends can be made, there is potential they can become friends.

Have you ever been bullied? As others have said, I too remember my bully. I was 5 and had just started school. She lived nearby and told the teachers that my Mum had asked her to look after me. So I was effectively placed in her care. Fast forward fifty years and I hate her still. She's on a local FB page and I want to puke every time I see her face.

Have you ever been bullied?

I was. But then I admit I was quite a bitch too at times, not proud of myself at all.
Kids are little shits. And at school, the bigger an arsehole you are, the more cool points you get.
That's why the parents job is too see that conflicts are resolved. Carrying grudges into adulthood is not healthy.

This boy is troubled from his past.
IME of bullies as a teenager I now as an adult see the bullies were also masking pain, a need to punish others, pass on their pain.

I agree with this. Some people need to put the pitchforks down, talk of this boy lacking in empathy is a bit rich when you read their posts.

It sounds like you are doing a great job op, you are taking this seriously and as the person who knows your child best I'm sure you will make the right choices.

@CatsArePeopleToo

Have you ever been bullied?

I was. But then I admit I was quite a bitch too at times, not proud of myself at all.
Kids are little shits. And at school, the bigger an arsehole you are, the more cool points you get.
That's why the parents job is too see that conflicts are resolved. Carrying grudges into adulthood is not healthy.

It's not a grudge. It's a scar.

Also it's important to reconcile the kids. Joint activity of some sorts. I.e. your kid can play the console if he invites the other kid over.

I couldn't disagree more. For Gods Sake, leave the other kid and his family well alone. Hopefully he can rise above this and move on.

It is absolutely not for him to be involved anymore . It's over.

Forget the bloody blazer, the pleading , the charts, the negotiating.