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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

DS bullying a child at school

547 replies

orangesalad · 07/11/2020 01:45

Posting for traffic and name changed as potentially outing.

Found out today that my ds13 has been nasty to a child at school today... throwing food over the child's head, making a laughing stock out of the child's dandruff (which was caused by the food my ds dropped on him) the child was also pooped on by a bird and due to that and my son throwing food over them the child threw their blazer in the bin at school. My ds13 seems to be having a good laugh about it with his friends over WhatsApp which is how I've found out and what bothers me also is my DS was telling both myself and my DH about how this 'crazy' kid had thrown their blazer in the bin at school today. We asked why and he just said he didn't know and the conversation moved on.

I'm going to speak to DS in the morning and see what he says but I've already seen what happened via his phone. I will also call the school first thing Monday but I just feel so disappointed and sorry for the child this happened to. Having been bullied throughout my school years I understand what impact that can have on a child and so I've spoken to my kids many times and encouraged them to be kind. Wwyd

OP posts:
randomer · 07/11/2020 20:15

Its quite a leap from bullying to suicide isn't it? The OP's son was totally wrong but is he inciting suicide?

MsTSwift · 07/11/2020 20:18

Depressing side of human nature

MessAllOver · 07/11/2020 20:24

For those ripping into the OP, what do you want her to do in addition to what she is already doing? Euthanase her child? Lock him in the cellar and throw away the key?

The OP is not minimising the issue. She's well aware of the impact of bullying on bullied children. But she has to parent the bully. She's looking for advice here on how best to do that, not vitriol and condemnation.

iseeu · 07/11/2020 20:32

@orangesalad

Update: we went ultimate war fare this morning and had a long discussion about his behaviour and explained the consequences
  1. He’s lost his own blazer until he earns it back through chores which we will pace so he doesn’t get it back before learning a lesson
  1. He’s spending the day watching videos of children who have committed suicide due to bullying. After 18 minutes he was apologising profusely and sobbing like we haven’t seen before.
  1. He’s had his designer clothes taken away (we’d already bought some due to his entitled attitude last week about wearing appropriate uniform for school)
  1. We are going to pay for a new blazer for the child or give the parents money for one. He doesn’t know this
  1. Lost phone, internet and console for the foreseeable
  1. Going to the school on Monday to let them know
  1. He’s going to be volunteering, maybe litter picking, or helping vulnerable people
  1. He will be writing a letter after he’s watched the videos and after he’s wrote to us explaining what he’s learned from them

I can’t say too much here as it’s very outing but he didn’t have the best start in life. I am not his birth mother, but I love him like my own son and have been a mother to him since he was 5. I’m sure this has affected his empathy levels however he’s not evil at his core, he can be lovely and wants to do well but very often doesn’t think and definitely lacks in empathy, has poor judgement and thinks he knows best but our eyes have been drastically opened and on no level will we tolerate bullying

@orangesalad this isn't how you should be dealing with it with a child with his history. The lack of empathy towards the children he has bullied could well be rooted in serious attachment issues or other complicated feelings which he is clever at masking. You need to speak to a clinical psychologist specialising in developmental trauma to get an assessment of what is going on and the right parenting strategies.
EmeraldShamrock · 07/11/2020 20:35

I'm glad you are taking steps to punish him.
The poor DC been bullied if the bully knew how terrifying they can be.
I hope your DS doesn't take his punishment out of this DC.
I'll pay some bigger kid to scare the shit out of my DS if he is a bully.

Kab30 · 07/11/2020 20:36

Its awful on all accounts ...but you will get there....your a good parent and well done for caring xxxx

randomer · 07/11/2020 20:46

Ultimate warfare.....nice

randomer · 07/11/2020 20:48

Your 8 points are quite a turnaround from fairly casual parenting.

Dontbeme · 07/11/2020 21:12

The lack of empathy towards the children he has bullied could well be rooted in serious attachment issues or other complicated feelings which he is clever at masking. You need to speak to a clinical psychologist specialising in developmental trauma to get an assessment of what is going on and the right parenting strategies

Probably the most sensible advice I have read on this thread. Please act on it OP.
Also please ignore those advising that you bring your son to his victims house to apologise. That poor kid won't want his bully in his house, he will need someplace to feel safe, and the least he deserves is a safe feeling home away from his school tormentor.

orangesalad · 07/11/2020 21:14

Currently feeling full of rage. He was sent to bed at 7:30 as he asked me 'so am I not allowed my blazer in school Monday? (which he knows full well he's not because we've told him so this morning AND he's been doing chores to start earning it back AND we took him into Asda to buy the cheapest coat possible (with his money) while pointing out he's going to need a coat seeing as he has no blazer... so he must think we're calling his bluff)
I replied 'of course you're not wearing your blazer to school' to which he replied 'but I'll get in trouble' (which I can tell you is not a concern of his considering he's always trying to sneak in with the wrong colour socks and the wrong pe kit and deodorant cans he's not allowed to take) to which I replied 'well how do you think the child feels who also won't be having a blazer on Monday' to which he said 'how's that my fault?' I had a go at him and sent him to bed because i am livid, I have a headache bordering on a migraine since I didn't sleep much at all last night and then spent today dealing with all this shit for a comment like that which he even repeated 3 times until he realised his mistake and tried to back track. True colours

I have two other children who are categorically not bullies. One of is an empath of the highest order and is different, he gets picked on at school himself and it breaks my heart... The other is extremely cautious and avoids getting into trouble at all costs. I'm not making excuses for DS when I explain his start in life was difficult, it's simply a way to try and make sense of why he's behaving like this. Unfortunately he's very selfish by nature and prioritises his own wants and needs without a thought for others. Seems to him there's a constant injustice. He even said this morning that it's not fair other kids get to wear things to school that aren't uniform while he has to wear the correct uniform.

The reason why we already had the non branded clothes ready was because a few days previously I bought him the official winter school jumper despite him asking for a Nike one for PE. He had a sulk on and said 'You've wasted your money because im not wearing it'

This time last year we couldn't afford the full school uniform and branded clothes so it's not that he's always lived in a bubble of privilege. We struggled to make ends meet for years. I was happy that for once I could actually afford to get the proper kit.

There's no excuse for what he's done and I'm devastated and heartbroken for the other child and their parents. Unfortunately I don't know many parents in the area or school so I'm struggling to contact them. I'll send them a letter via the school or at least ask the school to contact the parents.

As for him thinking we may be calling his bluff he will soon have a shock. However we have always always stuck to the consequences and saw them through so I have no idea why hes not worried although I'm sure I'll have world war 3 on my hands come Monday morning

OP posts:
MammaCookie · 07/11/2020 21:25

You’re doing a great job OP.

You say his childhood was difficult - I would guess neglect and rejection from birth parents maybe played a part in this? Has he had any counselling? I’m wondering if he is desperate to fit in and feel “wanted” by his peers? Was he in care or did he come straight to you?

Not an excuse but it seems like you have handled the current issue well and now need to look at resolving the underlying cause of why he had acted this way?

Mascaramademehappy · 07/11/2020 21:31

Time to get stricter, a LOT stricter.

orangesalad · 07/11/2020 21:36

@MammaCookie he lost his mother at birth and his father was severely abused as a child himself so he struggled emotionally and was also very young at the time, not even out of school and very immature. I always remember that at 5 DS was very serious, never smiled, never laughed. Eventually he did begin to smile and joke around but it was always at an extreme. I never met his mother but I hoped I would do a great job raising her son but it’s been very difficult

OP posts:
Whybot · 07/11/2020 22:04

so sorry for you , worse than your kid being bullied.
can you ring the mum and say how sorry and ashamed you are, and hear her story....?

BenoneBeauty · 07/11/2020 22:08

Stay strong Op, you are doing a great job.

Lougle · 07/11/2020 22:34

@orangesalad that's so hard. Do you have contact details for your DS's Head of Year? I would send an email to them. Although it is unlikely to be read over the weekend, it will communicate that you are taking this seriously. As a parent, if I contacted the school on Monday to tell them about my child's experience, it would be so reassuring for the school to reply that they were aware of the incident. Also, when you phone on Monday, if they've had some of the details beforehand, you can jump straight into fixing these issues, rather than explaining the situation.

Do make sure that any punishments you give are targeted at encouraging empathy, rather than simply communicating your disgust and anger.

Storyoftonight · 07/11/2020 22:36

@randomer

Its quite a leap from bullying to suicide isn't it? The OP's son was totally wrong but is he inciting suicide?
I agree. What the kid did was foul and there does need to be more awareness of the consequences but as adults , say an ex partner threatened to commit suicide added a split or a messy row , we jump to tell adults it isn't their fault.

Why do we tell kids that is ?

Forcing an emotionally damaged child to watch suicide videos is outrageous.

EmeraldShamrock · 07/11/2020 22:40

You're a very caring responsible parent.
He is very lucky to have you.

ColaandBru · 07/11/2020 23:06

Hi OP. I don't think I've ever clicked on a link of a thread I've posted on before and gone back. I'm so sorry reading all these comments.

Your son has made a terrible mistake and I'm sure with the right support he will learn from that. Do you have a named social worker? What is the school doing to support him as a rule 2 child? Could some of his pupil premium money be spent on some appropriate therapy for him? Who was meant to be supervising when this happened? Did it all happen or was it magnified on social media? Are there ongoing issues between him and the other child that boiled over that could have been intercepted or was it a one off unprovoked incident?

As I said above, my daughter was badly bullied. The school was full of parents like these posters who were in theory disgusted by bullies. Not a single one of their children stood up for my daughter or got help for her when she had a skipping pulled around her neck from behind. Not a single one of their children stood up to the name calling or the ripping up of her work. Many of them joined in and laughed. When I mentioned to a couple of parents that my daughter was struggling in her friendship group, not a single one included her in a sleep over or birthday party.

Get professional support. Continue to love your child. Recognise that bullying is often caused by low self esteem. Your child has been through a huge amount. What he has done is awful but that doesn't make him an awful person.
Of course he has complicated emotions. He has been through more than many of these posters could ever imagine.

All children get things wrong. Work with the school to get help to understand what went wrong and to find out how to put things as right as possible with the other child.

Parenting isn't easy. Hang in there.

sst1234 · 07/11/2020 23:14

OP it sounds like you have it tough with this boy. Stay firm, easier said than done I know. If he doesn’t experience strict boundaries now, he will only get worse.

CarrieMoonbeams · 07/11/2020 23:31

I really hope that the other wee boy has a decent, happy home with parents who will be able and willing to help him to cope with this.

I had a fucking horrible home life - beaten, starved, constantly ridiculed, terrified, desperately trying to make myself as invisible as possible.

I was a bright kid though, and I used to love school as it felt like a sanctuary. Until I was 12, then the bullying started. I had my workbooks taken from me and either hidden (so I couldn't hand in my homework, which was torture to me as I was such a rule-abiding child) or scribbled on; my clothes ripped (and then I got battered when I got home because of that); pushed around in the playground for being a swot; called names due to my disability and excluded from friendship groups because everyone else was too scared to stand up to the bullies.

I certainly couldn't tell my parents as I'd have copped it more for being pathetic and telling tales, so I don't know who on earth would have been able to teach me resilience, by nurturing me so I was "happy-go-lucky, laid-back" or could develop "high self esteem" as a PP suggested. Teachers in those days did nothing to help either.

I'm lucky in that I was able to avoid my bullies most of the time (no social media in those days) and it eventually stopped after a few years. Bastards.

OP I really hope you're able to guide your son towards the right path.

thebellsofsaintclements · 07/11/2020 23:48

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. We've removed this because it quotes a previously deleted post.

Graphista · 08/11/2020 01:14

Wow! A lot of lenient parents on this thread in my opinion!

This is the SECOND time he's pulled this shit, you admit you "aren't the strictest" well you reap what you sow!

Personally if I were you:

Grounded for rest of term - grounded means NO communication outside of school with friends, NO pocket money, NO treats, NO Tech except for homework and I'd be sitting right next to him when he did it too!

He should be doing chores at home anyway at his age as part of a functioning family but I'd be adding some on the basis of "idle hands..."
To be honest

IF the bullied child genuinely agrees (as could make things worse for them with your sons allies being just as bad) then I think a PUBLIC apology should be considered - seeing as the bad behaviour was so public and humiliating AND because your son needs to learn some bloody humility!

I'd set him to writing an essay about the effects of bullying on victims and why it's a completely unacceptable thing to do, including an explanation of why he targeted this particular kid. That will give you an understanding of how he views others and what traits he sees as "less worthy"

Phone GONE until next autumn at least - not even kidding! He's PROVEN repeatedly he cannot use it responsibly, you've already tried monitoring and restricting his use which hasn't worked he CANNOT be trusted to have one therefore he doesn't! At this point I'd be sorely tempted (depending on type of phone and contract etc) to even suggest the possibility of selling it to pay for the other lads blazer, which yes either way he should be paying for. When he does get to have a phone again it's a dumb one to start with as even with that there's potential for misuse and he needs to prove he is trustworthy.

Regular and ongoing discussions with him about empathy, kindness and treating others respectfully no matter what!

"Practical jokes" I have never felt are funny as they are ALWAYS at someone else's expense. You need to address his sense of humour and "course correct" him. Making fun of himself is one thing you NEVER make fun of others.

He sounds of the most cowardly type of bully as he's trying to disguise it as "humour"

I might take his blazer off him until he had earned enough to pay the other child’s new blazer I like this suggestion if it's going to take a while to pay for other child's blazer if you (as a family) cannot afford to do so right now.

I'd also be seriously considering restricting his friendships with the "Eggers on" long term! Talk to him about choosing decent people as friends.

seems the tears this morning were of the crocodile variety! You'll HAVE to keep on top of this or you're going to potentially have a very nasty young man on your hands!

His attitude generally stinks!

You've wasted your money because im not wearing it

I raised dd alone and frankly if she'd EVER come out with a comment like that she'd had been grounded for a week and she knew it!

I'm afraid you (plural) seem to have raised a spoiled, entitled and aggressive child there! His start in life is a small part of who he is now. You already knew he paid little heed to your or to school discipline and to be perfectly honest you should have addressed that much sooner, but you are where you are.

Now you're going to have to work harder than you would have to set him on the right path

we have always always stuck to the consequences and saw them through so I have no idea why hes not worried

I'm thinking perhaps because the consequences were not that bad as far as he was concerned (different kids value different things, my dd is a total Luddite for her generation and couldn't care less about tech, but hates being cooped up and needs fresh air twice a day or gets antsy, therefore grounding is her idea of hell but confiscating phone water off a ducks back! If she was grounded she still got her fresh air - just with my delightful company rather than her friends) and/or perhaps weren't for long enough?

The suggestion upthread of consequences lasting only a week for this are frankly laughable!!

How long ago was the last incident you knew of and how long did the consequences you gave last then?

Kids need things to be clear, consistent and definite! No ifs buts or maybes!

Eg my own dd had some new friends she made in high school comment to her that they thought I rarely said "no", dd and her friends that had known us both far longer pointed out that Dd simply knew better than to ask certain questions because she knew already from experience that:

The question/thing she was asking for would be met with a "no"

That when I said "no" I always meant it (started that literally as soon as she could understand the word no as a small child, you have to start early. Not just because of discipline but children are far more secure with clear known boundaries)

That if I said "no" and she pushed her luck, either conversationally or in her actions there were always consequences. What they were depended on the nature and seriousness of the infraction.

The reason it came up was they were trying to persuade her to break curfew which was a BIG "no" with me (mainly as it's a safety issue as we unfortunately live in a pretty rough area)

Dd and her old friends were to the new friends: "no way! You don't know graphista! Dd even 5 mins past curfew and doesn't even call her mum will be grounded for a month and grounded means grounded at hers! We wouldn't even be able to speak to her outside of school"

But here's the really interesting part. When dd reaches later teen stage she had more freedom than a lot of her friends with supposedly more lenient parents. Why? Because I could trust dd. I'd "drummed into her" what I considered acceptable behaviour so she knew clearly what she could and couldn't get away with and knew to stick to it. The other kids (not all a few had similar parenting to dd and they were her closest friends) were confused because their parents would frequently move the goal posts, rant and rave but not actually DO anything, say they were grounded for a week one day, then 2 days later "let them off" etc so they did what teens do and pushed boundaries.

Dd did too but she was careful on which ones she chose the ones she KNEW I was less concerned with and knew clearly which ones I'd come down on her like a ton of bricks for! (Like curfew)

Sometimes too a consequence needs to be over a length of time because it means each day it's essentially being repeated. Each day the child is being reminded and taught that their behaviour was unacceptable and has led to a negative impact on them and is best avoided!

Some on mn seem averse to the idea of "punishment" well that's how people, including children, learn some things! The same is true for adults - it's called a legal system - because people don't always decide their behaviour on it being a good thing to do but because they don't want to get in trouble! It's also used to encourage good behaviour that overall protects them - eg seatbelt laws.

He needs "retrained" he's off course, he's losing touch with the empathy he had when younger and needs to rediscover it and also learn - once and for all - that you and his father will not stand for such behaviour, that you expect better from him.

That's why you need to strip everything back. The problem with social media is there's a distance, there, people on it are at least one step removed from the people they're influencing, disparaging and even abusing. So removing the tech for a decent period of time will force him to only engage with people on a personal and ACCOUNTABLE level.

Back to basics!

Good luck with it all op it's a tough position you're in but I think you and dh also need to acknowledge your part in this insofar as even though you knew he had these tendencies you didn't properly address it earlier. A hard lesson for you all.

safclass · 08/11/2020 01:43

This happened IN school, yes?
In addition to your home consequences, i'd be going up to the school with Ds and telling them what has happened. It shouldve mopped in bud by staff as well but if they're not Aware they need to be made aware.
I would also agree with several posters that children who behave in this manner, are often covering up some insecure ities that they don't want others to see. Maybe a chat with staff/DS might highlight if there is anything.

safclass · 08/11/2020 01:45

nipped in the bud

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