so we are now arresting people NOW Shocking

[Meadow1203]

I thought this was wind up but sadly it is true. A 73 year old retired nurse has been arrested and put in handcuffs because she took her own mother out of a care home. She has not had proper contact for 9 months and her poor 97 year old mum was ailing, she wanted to bring her home to care for her. Wow just wow how have we come to this.

[quote TheSeedsOfADream]@MoonJelly. My sarcasm seems not to have communicated well today. I was taking the piss out of the OP's unwavering support for these clowns.
What they did, despite what they say, before their performance and talk show interviews, seems to be precisely fuck all.[/quote]
Apologies, I see from your other posts that you were indeed being sarcastic. I do agree that these two don't come well out of the interviews, especially the granddaughter who is evidently using this to push her own agenda.

I was struck by her saying indignantly that "thousands and thousands" of old people are in "this position." It simply isn't true, and it was fascinating that she was glossing over the clear guidance that care home visits are to continue during lockdown.

Residents don't die alone, in our home we take it in turns to sit with the resident. Day and night 24/7, no one want to see a person die alone.

MoonJelly - this

Not all local authorities allowed visits during or after lockdown. It’s purely down to individual Local Authorities and Care home COVID policies. I really doubt these women just couldn’t be bothered to turn up. They say in their interview the only time they could see her was when she was admitted to hospital and whilst there asked again if she could be released in to their care instead of the care home

This particular care home didn’t permit in house visits only Skype and window visits which frankly is ridiculous considering the patients have dementia.

@vodkaredbullgirl

Residents don't die alone, in our home we take it in turns to sit with the resident. Day and night 24/7, no one want to see a person die alone.

That’s should t be the carehomes call though. The person who is dying should be allowed to have family there when passing.

@eaglejulesk

Anyone who disagrees with this woman's actions, wants all old people to suffer,die alone and be miserable until their inevitable end.

Wow, you have a pretty low opinion of care home workers if this is what you think happens when residents are dying.

Have you bothered to read my whole post?

We do allow residents family stay when their relative are dying. Even during this pandemic, luckly we have not had many deaths during this time.

Before my mother went into the care home, she was living in a flat in supported accommodation where she had carers coming in twice a day, the people in charge keeping an eye on her, visits from a physio and hairdresser, and met up with other people at lunch every day - in addition to visits at least twice a week from me and occasional visits from other relatives. There were also various other social activities going on where she lived but which she refused to access. She was getting more and more bored and depressed, and indeed angry with the entire situation, and kept shouting out that she wanted to be dead.

When she went into the home, she was seeing people more often, and they were very good about taking her out, gently encouraging her to take part in activities that she enjoyed, and generally jollying her out of her complaints. Because of where her room was, I would regularly hear carers chatting to her as I approached and they were lovely with her. Her mental health improved in a big way, and although her memory was still extremely bad it was much more like having our old Mum back again.

Come lockdown we had to stop visiting but the home arranged Skype calls and, as soon as they could, garden and window visits. They have been very careful indeed with Covid and haven't had any cases.

I know we may well have been very lucky, but I simply don't recognise this picture people paint of care homes as hell holes where the elderly are locked up, ignored and deliberately kept apart from their families. Judging by this and other threads, however, we are by no means unusual.

This particular care home didn’t permit in house visits only Skype and window visits which frankly is ridiculous considering the patients have dementia.

Window visits, at least in my experience, involve the window being open, albeit not very widely. Sure, we can't touch each other, but I accept that they just can't take that risk of infection. My mother with dementia is OK with it. She is also a bit bemused by Skype calls, but seems to enjoy having a chat that way.

What do you suggest should happen, @Byallmeans, given the duty to keep everyone in the home safe from this horrible infection?

I was struck by her saying indignantly that "thousands and thousands" of old people are in "this position." It simply isn't true, and it was fascinating that she was glossing over the clear guidance that care home visits are to continue during lockdown

They are. Why do you think the Alzheimer’s Society and One Dementia Voice are calling for close family members to be given ‘key worker’ status so they can be tested regularly and go in.

From the Alzheimer’s Society website -

The coronavirus pandemic has hit people with dementia the hardest, both in terms of deaths from the virus itself, and from a huge increase in ‘unexplained’ non-virus-related deaths, totalling over 13,000 additional deaths between March and June

What are these unexplained deaths? This is why families are beyond worried when they see their much loved elderly family member rapidly decline.

Just because if doesn’t impact your life in any way - don’t pull to pieces families that are living this because of your refusal to believe it.

Whoops - apologies @ComeOnBabyHauntMyBubble . I'm guilty of not reading the last bit of your post, sorry, and yes, you are correct.

@MoonJelly

This particular care home didn’t permit in house visits only Skype and window visits which frankly is ridiculous considering the patients have dementia.

Window visits, at least in my experience, involve the window being open, albeit not very widely. Sure, we can't touch each other, but I accept that they just can't take that risk of infection. My mother with dementia is OK with it. She is also a bit bemused by Skype calls, but seems to enjoy having a chat that way.

What do you suggest should happen, @Byallmeans, given the duty to keep everyone in the home safe from this horrible infection?

Yeah I’m not surprised by your responses tbh. Your mothers ok so fuck every one else?..

Really really hope you dont have to watch her slowly due through a window because I think you might feel differently

I think considering that Alzheimer is the U.K. No.1. Killer and COVID is No.8 we should be able to find some form of middle group to not ostracise and shorten the life expectancy of the very people were supposed to be protecting.

Close family should be given ‘key worker status’ to go in the homes.

These two women can't agree when the grandmother went into the care home.

They said at first that they couldn't hug her for 9 months,now that they haven't seen her for 9 months.

It's not been 9 months anyways since then.

However they did find out in March after the hospital admission , that they did not have power of attorney for welfare and they took no steps to gain it and do things legally.

They glossed over the fact that contact was allowed , just no physical contact. They were there for a visit to begin with.

They're glossing over how did the grandmother end up in the care home in the first place ,if they're so desperate to care for her. Not just that, but how they ended up with someone else being in charge of the grandmother's welfare.

One of them barged into the care home and pushed a member of staff "lightly " in the process.

She also decided on a whim to take her mother out of the care home, with no plan of action. She didn't have the legal right to do so, she didn't take her mother's belongings,there was no care plan in place,no medication.

They took her to a park with no coat on, to "figure out what to do". But it's ok because they got her a drink and a cake.

They refused to return her to the care home.

They dismissed any confusion and distress they might have caused with "oh she probably just thought she was out for an outing".

They completely ignore the distress and worry they might have caused to the care home staff, who are legally responsible for the 97 year old woman.

You see love and dedication. I see erratic,irresponsible and very questionable behaviour, with very little concern for the actual wellbeing of a 97 year old woman.

Hmm it's so difficult isnt it.
I'm a key worker and a HCP
I was turned away by a NH who were refusing to let anyone in.
The very next day I developed a cough and had a positive covid test.
I could have infected everyone in there.
I think this family are ridiculously selfish, of course they want to see their Mother but what about all the other residents who also have a right to be safe?
The poor patient, being ripped from the security of her home, by people she may not even recognise anymore.
She looks so bemused in those photos.

@vodkaredbullgirl

Residents don't die alone, in our home we take it in turns to sit with the resident. Day and night 24/7, no one want to see a person die alone.

@Byallmeans, I'm quite sure my mother's experience is not at all unique, as witnessed indeed by plenty of people on this thread. So far as I can see, the home where this lady was has also been allowing visits on a similar basis, and the relatives have yet to explain why they left it for so long before visiting.

The Alzheimer's Society is not asserting that thousands of people in care homes are going without visits for 9 months at a time as these two are claiming. The deaths of people with dementia to which they refer include those who had never been in a care home. The main causes to which they attribute the increase in care home deaths were the failure to protect care home residents from infection brought onto the premises, notably by people being discharged from hospital with covid.; grossly inadequate testing arrangements; lack of guidance and training on infection control in the early stages; and lack of PPE. None of that had anything to do with whether relatives could or could not visit.

Really really hope you dont have to watch her slowly due through a window because I think you might feel differently

She's 95 with cancer. Don't be so crass.

The Alzheimer’s Society actually says:

Fiona Carragher, Director of Research and Influencing at Alzheimer’s Society said:

“The harsh reality is that blanket bans on care home visitors is causing devastation to people living with dementia, who have been worst hit by the virus and make up 70% of care home residents. We know that family carers keep people with dementia in care homes tethered to the world and it’s no exaggeration to say they are keeping them alive. The Government must urgently allow care home visits from designated family carers – banning visits is misunderstanding how to best protect people with dementia in care homes.”

MoonJelly you have no idea what your talking about. You should educate yourself. I’m embarrassed for you.

There is national guidance.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/visiting-care-homes-during-coronavirus/update-on-policies-for-visiting-arrangements-in-care-homes

@MoonJelly

Hang on - a sharp decline should not be seen an an inevitable process of getting old.

We only have the granddaughter's word for it that there was any decline; and in any event, if she hadn't seen her relative for nine months she's bound to notice a difference.

No. We have the Alzheimer’s Society’s word in it. Or are they lying too?

Every ones lying!!

[quote CherryPavlova]There is national guidance.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/visiting-care-homes-during-coronavirus/update-on-policies-for-visiting-arrangements-in-care-homes[/quote]
Of course there is. If a care home went against it , and cases spiked or residents died then they would be the ones blamed and fully shouldering responsibility.

Given all the residents of dmils care home have all had Covid I really couldn’t see why we weren’t allowed to visit.
We as a family have we think all had Covid so are probably immune anyway.

Dmil before all this hated her life and in moments of clarity just wants to die.
Unfortunately her body says otherwise.

Not seeing someone for 9 months mid February-mid November (Dp was worried about Covid so was semi isolating and didn’t want to sit on a train for 4 hours and then get a bus just for his own health).
No one could have foreseen that the nursing home would be shut for so long

The people I know who are elderly in and out of care homes, are not bothered about Covid. They want to live their lives. Even if that means they run the risk of getting Covid.
It isn’t an automatic death sentence they stand a very good chance of recovery and if they don’t the life they would have led isolating to save themselves is worse than the disease

You know you can catch it twice?

So what do we take away from all this then?
Do we as a society, jump up and down at this news story and scandal, say how disgusting it all is, then quietly go on with our lives next week?
That's generally the way it goes. Panorama programmes, news headlines..... Public outcry....... A promise from an official body to change things...... All goes quiet....... Nothing changes.
I'm aware, as are so many of my colleagues what an impact not seeing family has for our residents, we're well aware of it. We report it to the HCPs that deal with other areas of our residents health, we agree with the family members that it's hard and that the government have had a whole summer to work out and invest in ways to allow visitors without too much extra risk.
We talk amongst ourselves how X or Y is sad today because there's been a family birth and they are excluded, and how if weekly testing and PPE is enough for the staff this could be extended to a family member of each resident, how we could set aside an area that could be for visiting and sanitised afterwards (we're sure we'll find the time somewhere!)
We sit with residents and an iPad to enable them to have some contact. We open a window and physically support someone to stand and have a conversation with someone.
We call a family member when the nurse has been to administer the medication to make someone's end of life as comfortable as possible and explain to them gently that they are now allowed to visit, and why. We ask them to leave the room, to wait outside the home while we administer personal care. We confirm to them if they're there that yes, this really is it. Or we make the call to them.
We make a video call with a doctor to confirm someone has died and then usher undertakers in through a backdoor with all others away in a different room because they look like something out of 'Contagion' and frankly a bit scary.
We worry that visitors we admit to the home now won't follow the best practice, putting everyone at risk because we've read and seen how people don't like masks, how they don't believe in it all, how they don't want to follow the rules because it doesn't suit them. And know that if it does get into our home, despite how careful we've been, we'll be held entirely responsible. Society will blame us as care workers.
We discuss how we are being blamed for the rules being in place, even though none of this is our doing. And whichever way things go, we'll be blamed regardless.
Then we go home to our own families and wonder why.

@Byallmeans

MoonJelly you have no idea what your talking about. You should educate yourself. I’m embarrassed for you.

Yes, trying to shut down someone’s POV and personal experience by spouting ‘educate yourself’ without any substance to back that up isn’t embarrassing at all.