To think that all the idiots have brought us back to total lockdown ?

[updownroundandround]

So frustrated with all the people, from the ineffective and blustering MP to the idiots out trick or treating tonight............

When will people learn that a bloody pandemic cannot be ignored and that insisting on personal freedoms/ personal preferences is NOT going to shorten the lock downs or save the vulnerable ?

Flu and pneumonia are currently killing 2.5 times as many people in the UK as covid, according to last week's figures from the ONS.

Failed to find the original poster of this, sorry, but it's absolutely not true. I don't know what their source was? Here is the summary from the ONS, data from January to August 2020. Bold is mine for emphasis.

"Therefore, there were 1.3 times as many deaths where influenza or pneumonia was a contributory factor than COVID-19, but COVID-19 was the underlying cause in 3.4 times as many deaths.

Of the deaths where both influenza and pneumonia, and COVID-19 were mentioned on the death certificate, the underlying cause of death was COVID-19 in 95.8% (18,642 deaths) of cases. This is compared with 0.04% (eight deaths) of deaths where influenza and pneumonia were the underlying cause of death."

The figures I referred to from the ONS were deaths from all causes last week Twillow, not the whole year. I was referring to the figures being used to justify the latest lockdown.

Again, I'm on my phone and can't link, but it's well established that deaths from flu and pneumonia are down this year and that the overall death rate isn't significantly higher than usual. Probably because the average age of death from covid is 82 years, which is higher than average life expectancy.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending23october2020

If this is what that poster was referring too then they’ve very clearly read it wrong!

This

Flu and pneumonia are currently killing 2.5 times as many people in the UK as covid, according to last week's figures from the ONS

Is fake news.

Look at deaths DUE to Pneumonia (302) and Influenza and deaths DUE to Covid (874) not deaths INVOLVING either. That’s the crucial difference.

Pneumonia is called the old man's friend for a reason. You can mostly read pneumonia deaths as being deaths from old age.

When someone is generally decrepit and on their last legs, breathing and swallowing become affected, often ending up with foreign particles in the lungs leading to pneumonia being the final thing causing the death.

Therefore be careful of how you interpret charts of deaths from/with pneumonia.

@PostItJoyWeek

Pneumonia is called the old man's friend for a reason. You can mostly read pneumonia deaths as being deaths from old age.

When someone is generally decrepit and on their last legs, breathing and swallowing become affected, often ending up with foreign particles in the lungs leading to pneumonia being the final thing causing the death.

Therefore be careful of how you interpret charts of deaths from/with pneumonia.

It’s clear that it’s not killing 2.5 times the amount of people that Covid is no matter how you interpret the chart. Which is why I posted it, to refute those claims.

@IncandescentSilver

Hi. What I'm looking at definitely does NOT say overall deaths are below average this year - that's why we are talking about excess mortality. It is true that for some (summer) months this year, excess mortality was a little below the five-year average. So far the excess mortality for 2020 is x1.53 greater than for the period 2015-2019.

@TitsInAbsentia

So I hope all you who are saying why should we worry about over 65s are willing to launch yourselves off a cliff on your 65th birthday so you don't become a burden to the country.

Quite. I'm sure they will all cheerfully report to their nearest crematorium (with a bag for their belongings to be sent home in) the minute they hit 65.

Perhaps we could let over 65s decide for themselves if they want to isolate.

I am sick of this new narrative infantilising anyone with grey hair.

It's bad enough that people think your brain falls out when you've had a baby. Now you can have a full life, be a smart resilient person, be younger than the president of the USA and people in their thirties are talking about you like you are 95 with dementia and they are all desperate to make decisions on your behalf without bloody well asking.

If the government polled the retired population about whether we should go back to no restrictions I have no doubt it would be a landslide victory for no more lockdown.

If the government polled the retired population about whether we should go back to no restrictions I have no doubt it would be a landslide victory for no more lockdown.

Why would they be more likely to want no more lockdown compared with younger people? They are not having to worry about jobs or finances. For my parents, life isn't much different in lockdown.

My parents and their friends are vociferous that they don't want their children and grandchildren suffering. They remember the times when the economy was shit and jobs were scarce and many children got a crap education. They know we don't have an automatic right to a good economy, money for the NHS and schools etc. They don't want the next generation screwed over.

Their greatest fear for themselves is not of dying but of being kept alive at any cost.

@StrippedFridge

My parents and their friends are vociferous that they don't want their children and grandchildren suffering. They remember the times when the economy was shit and jobs were scarce and many children got a crap education. They know we don't have an automatic right to a good economy, money for the NHS and schools etc. They don't want the next generation screwed over.

Their greatest fear for themselves is not of dying but of being kept alive at any cost.

You can't extrapolate your parents feelings onto everyone else over a certain age! My parents see this as a blip. Things will improve. They did after the war. In fact the children born after that time (i.e. the baby boomers) are often viewed with envy by a lot of posters on MN.

Nobody should guess what the people at risk want. We don't have to. We could ask them. The government could ask.

@StrippedFridge

Nobody should guess what the people at risk want. We don't have to. We could ask them. The government could ask.

Errr.... Perhaps you should take your own advice rather than stating that if retired people were polled it would be a landslide victory for no more lockdown. You can't assume that everyone over 65 has the same opinion as your own parents.

Fair enough. Though I am not basing that on only two people. Look around, listen, you will see that it is a common theme with older people.

Think about the number of threads on MN about how many older people refuse to shield, keep going out and socialising, etc. Maybe it is not because those older people don't understand the risk, maybe it is because they do understand it and have made an active choice.

I would love to see the high risk groups consulted. It might stop the politicisation of the discussions too. It is dangerous how lefties for lockdown is becoming a thing.

@StrippedFridge

Fair enough. Though I am not basing that on only two people. Look around, listen, you will see that it is a common theme with older people.

Think about the number of threads on MN about how many older people refuse to shield, keep going out and socialising, etc. Maybe it is not because those older people don't understand the risk, maybe it is because they do understand it and have made an active choice.

I would love to see the high risk groups consulted. It might stop the politicisation of the discussions too. It is dangerous how lefties for lockdown is becoming a thing.

I'm not basing it on just two people either. My parents have friends too! What makes you think that you are the only one who "looks around and listens" despite what you hear on MN the majority of older people are being pretty careful, and generally have a lower rate of infection. Lockdown doesn't just protect older people so why should they be the only ones to be consulted? For example , it also protects working age vulnerable people and stops the NHS being overrun so that people can't get treatment for other conditions.