To think that all the idiots have brought us back to total lockdown ?

[updownroundandround]

So frustrated with all the people, from the ineffective and blustering MP to the idiots out trick or treating tonight............

When will people learn that a bloody pandemic cannot be ignored and that insisting on personal freedoms/ personal preferences is NOT going to shorten the lock downs or save the vulnerable ?

But the deciding much contact society is allowed is the job of the government. So if they've decided we can have too much, that is their responsibility.

At this point I would really like to scream. Shying away from personal responsibility to this extent is sickening.
And the stupidity as well.

Sweden is no poster boy at all. Their numbers are rising every day now, and in my mind, rightly or wrongly they abandoned their vulnerable.

Happy to be challenged on that.

As far as Sweden faring better in the first wave, I was watching something recently which mentioned that they weren't impacted by the importation of cases from the Italian ski-ing resorts in the way that other European countries were, and this would have kept their case numbers lower.

@Bejazzled

Police say they are continuing to deal with an illegal rave at a warehouse near Bristol. Officers who were called to Yate at around 22:30 GMT on Saturday said up to 700 people were in attendance. Some of the crowd began acting violently towards officers as they were told to leave, Avon and Somerset Police said.

700 idiots who should be denied NHS and Furlough support if they catch the virus

This.

The current threat of a fine is clearly not working.

Some don't care as in the Raves and such. This is what those who observe the rules are up against.

But as Thatcher said, there is no such thing as Society. It goes back that far really.

My stupid ridiculous son was at the rave last night , he believes this is a 'conspiracy' by the government... whilst telling me to 'be careful' (in the shielding group)...

I've tried to argue with brain dead but it's pointless...

...but we cannot protect a minority at the expense of the majority forever.

The false assumption behind that sentiment is that only a minority of the population is at risk.

I wonder how Jeremy Corbyn would have done things then, you would never be able to please everyone, wishy washy lockdown, you could always move to China, where you would probably get shot or imprisoned for breaking the rules/laws. We have to do our own part, and be realistic. The experts scientist cannot agree on the best course of action.

I'd take my chances with the virus if it shut up Dementors who seem to see everything 'members of the public' do, from their saintly superspy turrets. I dread a world filled with people like this
This.
Amazing -I really never imagined that people would still be so easily whipped up into collective hysteria - does put historical witch-hunting events into context.

Track and trace is failing the MAIN problem is people giving false details making them untraceable ,not answering withheld 0330 number and blocking goverment number on phone so they don't get notifications .

You kniw, if I was a new Zealanders, I'd feel pretty nervous about the future. New Zealanders are going to have do little immunity against common flu, which is a far bigger killer than covid, when everything dies open up again.

We do have flu vaccines in NZ you know. I haven't heard of a single person being nervous about catching flu next winter. As for it being a 'far bigger killer than covid' - really??

@boomboom1234

I am getting really fed up of this nasty shift in attitude towards people being 'blamed' if they catch Covid - like it means you are somehow stupid or did something wrong.
I think people are allocating blame to those idiots who are not following the rules and then spread it to those who are, rather than people who are doing their best to follow all the rules.

Also those in areas with lower cases feeing superior - why?
Because, clearly, more of them are doing the right thing and are rightly proud of behaving responsibly.

It was the test and tracing fiasco that vastly contributed to the spike in cases. When you have people who can’t book tests, it stands to reason that those who were in contact with them remained in blissful ignorance and were spreading the virus through no fault of their own.

Test and trace was never going to work whilst wages were not being covered for those self-isolating. I simply can not afford to take 2 weeks unpaid leave from work every time I'm in the vicinity of someone with covid, I just can't. We are already struggling financially, DH has just survived redundancy (though, likely will have more with 2nd lockdown) - nobody will half my bills if I need to isolate!

As a result, I haven't downloaded the app - I've avoided going to public places but if I HAD to attend for whatever reason I would give a false number, because of the above, simple finances. Selfish maybe, but necessary - rather that than be morally superior on the streets!

Our local spikes were caused by students, who were moving from all across the country into halls with lots of residents and communal facilities.

No universities in our area so what caused our spike?

If you're following the rules you're much less likely to catch it.
Obviously for those teaching and on the front line it's not possible to 'follow the rules'. But for the rest ....

If people hadn't flown in and out of the country over the summer then we probably wouldn't be in this position now. If you look at who's done well, it's generally countries which have been strict about quarantining those who came into their country. 80% of the current Covid strain is from Spain. You would think people had learned from the first wave but apparently not.

@MiddlesexGirl

If you're following the rules you're much less likely to catch it. Obviously for those teaching and on the front line it's not possible to 'follow the rules'. But for the rest ....

This is a vast generalisation. For many of us, our legal behaviour is much more likely to result in a covid infection than a rule break might. I

As an example, I'm in GM and my DC are at school. Our household is much more likely to get it that way than it would if I illegally went and had a brew with my neighbours, who don't go out much and have their shopping delivered. That's not to say I couldn't pick a way to break the rules that is as risky as the DC being in school, but then I never went to illegal raves etc anyway, I'd be much more likely to see someone quietly in one of our homes or gardens. Nobody in my house is teaching or on the front line in any sense either.

@MiddlesexGirl

Our local spikes were caused by students, who were moving from all across the country into halls with lots of residents and communal facilities.

No universities in our area so what caused our spike?

It's a complete fallacy that the spikes are due to universities. They may have spiked for a couple of weeks but the students quarantined and cases came down rapidly. Universities and students seem to be better handling this than the rest of the country.

@mathanxiety

...but we cannot protect a minority at the expense of the majority forever.

The false assumption behind that sentiment is that only a minority of the population is at risk.

It’s not a false assumption. The average age of fatalities is 82. It’s time we got some perspective and put a stop to the mass hysteria. Back in March we accepted that most people would get it and we needed to spread the infection rate out. Somehow that changed to stopping anyone getting it which is completely unrealistic.

It’s not a false assumption. The average age of fatalities is 82. It’s time we got some perspective and put a stop to the mass hysteria. Back in March we accepted that most people would get it and we needed to spread the infection rate out. Somehow that changed to stopping anyone getting it which is completely unrealistic.

That's the median age. It means that 50% of people who die will be under 82 and gives you no information about the age range . You may find it reassuring that they mostly had "underlying conditions " but that just means that something had been diagnosed . It could just mean high blood pressure .That includes a lot of the population . We don't know exactly younger people who are at risk is not insignificant. You might have a condition yourself but not have realised it yet .I don't agree that it was unrealistic for infections to be extremely low. We could have done it if people hadn't been so selfish about going on holiday and not bothering to quarantine when they got back. Other countries have managed it.

The university I teach at is huge and we’ve only had a couple of dozen cases. We test on campus. We have blended learning. Security are hot on clamping down on illegal gatherings. Our off campus students understand the need to protect others and social distance and isolate when necessary. Our university has handled this INCREDIBLY well and we are not alone. The universities who completely failed are the ones who grab all the headlines but in fact it’s a small minority of universities that have had the huge outbreaks, not the majority.

Foreign holidays, Eat Out to Help Out, incorrect guidelines given about symptoms and when to isolate and keep kids off school or stay off work and selfish people holding gatherings and getting pissed so forgetting to social distance are bigger contributing factors IMO. There is a lot that we could have done better as a country.

I was suicidal this time last year due to being alone for too many years and was in the fragile stages of a recovery that involved face to face therapy and lots of hobbies and social groups, spending time with friends and family etc when lockdown happened. It’s true lockdown hasn’t helped my mental health but the people ensuring it drags on by keeping flouting the rules and making things up to suit them are doing the most damage. There’s absolutely no end in sight if people do not have more self discipline...and that’s the thing I’m finding hardest from a mental health point of view. Not knowing when it will end.

They may have spiked for a couple of weeks but the students quarantined and cases came down rapidly.

It's not a fallacy that universities contributed. They did spike, and there was some spread into non-student community which has continued.

DS (in halls) quarantined, flat of 24, 4 positive tests, most had a mild symptom or two. Very relaxed approach to quarantining in the compound of 1,000+ students he lives in - they stayed in the compound and didn't travel on to campus or into city centre, but there was a lot of socialising within the compound. Suspect the fall in new cases (if there is one) within universities is due to herd immunity having become a reality in halls, which is a young, healthy, largely enclosed mini-community, and if it hasn't happened yet, it soon will.

Eaglesjulesk most years, the flu vaccine is considered successful if its 40% effective. Not everyone receives a flu vaccine.

Flu and pneumonia are currently killing 2.5 times as many people in the UK as covid, according to last week's figures from the ONS.

Thank goodness the ability to question is still alive in some people in Britain at least!

There were absolutely spikes that were caused by university students. This is not the same as saying they all were. Otherwise, explain why Fallowfield in GM spiralled to over 600 per 100,000 in the ward a fortnight after the students arrived. We in GM saw spikes in the wards containing the students. There is an easy explanation for this.