To think that all the idiots have brought us back to total lockdown ?

[updownroundandround]

So frustrated with all the people, from the ineffective and blustering MP to the idiots out trick or treating tonight............

When will people learn that a bloody pandemic cannot be ignored and that insisting on personal freedoms/ personal preferences is NOT going to shorten the lock downs or save the vulnerable ?

rapidly increasing suicide rate,

No evidence of this as far as I can tell from the sources that provide these statistics.

There are a lot of idiots who have brought us to where we are now. But they include those at the very top of government who supported Cummings' blatant breach of lockdown rules...IMO that fatally undermined the willingness of many people to adhere to them.

I am not condoning the many people who have done as they please regardless of the pandemic....I am seething with them. The 'trick or treaters' were out in force last night including children, knocking on our doors and putting us all at risk.

But if the government is seen to flout their own rules then it was forseeable that many people would conclude that the rules don't apply to them either. I don't excuse it but I can see how it has happened.

updownroundandroundexactly - the whole population has not caught it, nor is it likely to at the same time. Isn't it supposed to be 20% at the highest estimates? There are plenty of examples of a husband or wife being hospitalised while their spouse doesnt even rest positive, despite living with them.

And some countries are barely troubled by it at all, or at least are finding ways to work through it. The black death it is not.

Not heard much from Sweden recently, I'm assuming they're all dead having succumbed to the deadliest virus in history you know cos they didn't lockdown and don't do masks.

Again with the "Sweden didn't do lockdown and they managed fine" bullshit.

Sweden's movement of people, the reduction in the number of people visiting cafes and bars was the same as its Scandic neighbours who had stricter rules. Its economy has suffered the same as their neighbours, but they have a significantly higher number of deaths because they took very little action to protect the vulnerable. 70% of deaths were in care homes. And despite an increase in the prevalence of the virus everywhere else, they lifted the ban on care home visits a few weeks ago. Their numbers of cases has increased by 70% in the last week so I'm sure we can expect an increase in deaths in the next few weeks.

And despite their insistence that they could just carry on and let it run free, the number of people with antibodies is still less than 15%. Similar numbers in Norway and Denmark and they had far fewer deaths.

So, no thanks. Let's not hold Sweden up as some wonderful example.

Turn your television off for a few days OP and live your life.

Oh, and me and my 3 kids had a great time trick or treating last night

That's fine IncandescentSilver for those who are not at higher risk of catching or dying from it. I have 2 close members of my family (including my DC) who are identified as high risk. So I would rather others don't do things that put them further at risk. Still as long as your family are within the 80% not at risk I take it that's OK with you.

OP but you're happy for postal workers to continue so you get your mail. Happy for Nurses, road sweepers, food retail staff to work, for your convenience. The idiots are people like you who sit on high judging and will hug yourself in glee at the thought of all Fun banned. Were this a real total lockdown you'd be wailing for key workers to get back to work. & in self-serving fashion you wouldn't worry about the risk to them. By the way your Tories at the top haven't banned their own leisure time gatherings neither closed HoC bar.

I'd take my chances with the virus if it shut up Dementors who seem to see everything 'members of the public' do, from their saintly superspy turrets. I dread a world filled with people like this.

Is there not a Coronavirus seperate thread/board that these miserable, snipey posts can be shoved off to? There must be by now. But I guess Joysuckers won't go there with their crabby selves because it's not much fun amongst same-thinking folk who want everyone to feel like shit.

If anyone's struggling mentally, emotionally or financially, please do your life and mindset a favour and make sure you do not keep Covid-Crowers in your circle.

There are plenty of examples of a husband or wife being hospitalised while their spouse doesnt even rest positive, despite living with them.

Household transmission is noted in a high number of cases according to ScotGov. The statement was the likelihood of catching it from a household member was high. Why do you think it went through student halls like a dose of salts?

And some countries are barely troubled by it at all, or at least are finding ways to work through it. The black death it is not.

216 of 251 countries and territories have reported cases.

The places which have lower numbers are island nations who are able to restrict numbers of people coming to the country. And those with much smaller populations. There is also an issue that many less developed countries don't have the infrastructure in place to properly track numbers and little means to centrally record them.

Some countries have managed it better than others, but it is illogical to say it isn't a deadly virus simply because some have had more success with it. The virus is no less deadly in New Zealand than it is in the US, but each country shows what happens if it is left unchecked and what happens if it is managed well.

I'm fed up of people saying it isn't that bad. It is. It is just that up to now we've been able to keep it under control.

Police say they are continuing to deal with an illegal rave at a warehouse near Bristol.
Officers who were called to Yate at around 22:30 GMT on Saturday said up to 700 people were in attendance.
Some of the crowd began acting violently towards officers as they were told to leave, Avon and Somerset Police said.

700 idiots who should be denied NHS and Furlough support if they catch the virus

I'm fed up of people saying it isn't that bad. It is. It is just that up to now we've been able to keep it under control.

It is not that bad. The mortality rate not that bad.

As for deaths in Sweden, remember, our lockdown is to spread out the deaths, flatten the curve because our NHS can't handle a peak, not to stop the deaths happening at all. Sweden decided to go with one big peak instead. It will be a couple of years before we know whether there was a material impact on excess deaths in either country. Our cancer deaths might skyrocket next year due to lack of diagnosis this year. We don't know yet.

Every week there have been new cases in schools in my area, they now do a mass post about this instead of a post for each school since there have been so many.

It's also got back into a couple of nursing homes here, this isn't people acting like idiots.

It is not that bad. The mortality rate not that bad.

Because we took preventative action. I'll bet you thought Y2K was all a big hoax too, huh?

As for deaths in Sweden, remember, our lockdown is to spread out the deaths, flatten the curve because our NHS can't handle a peak, not to stop the deaths happening at all.

Oh dear. The stupid is strong with this one. It wasn't to spread out the deaths. NHS can handle a peak of deaths, that frees up a whole lot of resource. It was to stop so many unwell people coming in at once in order to prevent deaths.

It's also got back into a couple of nursing homes here, this isn't people acting like idiots.

Where did those cases come from? You think Covid was hiding in a cupboard and popped out?

Someone brought it in. Now, that might have been someone who followed all the guidance but got it anyway, or it could have been a carehome worker, a visiting relative (or teacher or janitor in schools) who thought "fuck it, it's not that bad, it's not the plague, I'm going to have my mates over for a party"

I can't say it was an idiot but neither can you say it wasn't.

Probably the staff, a lot of the carers will have kids.

but we cannot protect a minority at the expense of the majority forever.

I expect you would feel differently if
you were one of them.

@MintyMabel

It's also got back into a couple of nursing homes here, this isn't people acting like idiots.

Where did those cases come from? You think Covid was hiding in a cupboard and popped out?

Someone brought it in. Now, that might have been someone who followed all the guidance but got it anyway, or it could have been a carehome worker, a visiting relative (or teacher or janitor in schools) who thought "fuck it, it's not that bad, it's not the plague, I'm going to have my mates over for a party"

I can't say it was an idiot but neither can you say it wasn't.

Nope, we have no idea.

Maybe it was the parent of a kid at school who was asymptomatic, maybe it was a careworker attending an illegal rave. Maybe it happened despite all of the safety guidelines due to the vulnerability of the residents and the nature of the virus.

I do despair at some behaviour though A local cafe set up a pumpkin hunt in the shop for the kids yesterday. There were pictures of queues of 30 people waiting outside with 3 families allowed in the shop at once and then they had a magic show in the evening.

@MintyMabel

It is not that bad. The mortality rate not that bad.

Because we took preventative action. I'll bet you thought Y2K was all a big hoax too, huh?

As for deaths in Sweden, remember, our lockdown is to spread out the deaths, flatten the curve because our NHS can't handle a peak, not to stop the deaths happening at all.

Oh dear. The stupid is strong with this one. It wasn't to spread out the deaths. NHS can handle a peak of deaths, that frees up a whole lot of resource. It was to stop so many unwell people coming in at once in order to prevent deaths.

Tetchy.

The goal was clearly stated as flattening the curve. Yes, some covid patients can be helped with hospital treatment and yes the availability of beds will help them so yes some people will survive covid who would not have if we had too big a peak.

Meanwhile people are dying of other things. We will not know for a couple of years whether our excess deaths from all causes are worse than other countries.

The vast majority of people with covid be nowhere near needing hospitalisation. Some will. Some of those will survive when they otherwise would not have.

The difference in deaths between an early big peak and many smaller peaks is unlikely to be a large number in the final reckoning.

@PostItJoyWeek you say

"The difference in deaths between an early big peak and many smaller peaks is unlikely to be a large number in the final reckoning."

On what data do you base this? Are you a modeller?

The NHS can cope with a number of smaller peaks but is ill equipped for one large peak. Beds in my nearest hospital are already filled to capacity with both COVID patients and those with other conditions. The next stage is the cancelling of elective procedures and then if that additional capacity is filled, they will be using the nearest nightingale hospital (assuming there are enough people to staff it). A large peak would overwhelm all of these methods for creating additional capacity and result in more all cause mortality.

but we cannot protect a minority at the expense of the majority forever.

But not protecting the majority increases the size of the minority.
A small percentage of a huge number ends up being quite a big number itself!

@Fluffycloudland77

Probably the staff, a lot of the carers will have kids.

And some of the carers will have been having parties, socialising, etc. My nephew works in a care home for teenagers. He's a bloody nightmare for being arrogant and not following rules - he's the kind who claims it's all a hoax so has carried on as normal, mixing households, socialising, etc.

The goal was clearly stated as flattening the curve. Yes, some covid patients can be helped with hospital treatment and yes the availability of beds will help them so yes some people will survive covid who would not have if we had too big a peak.

Flattening the curve to prevent deaths. Not flattening the curve to spread the deaths out.

You kniw, if I was a new Zealanders, I'd feel pretty nervous about the future. New Zealanders are going to have do little immunity against common flu, which is a far bigger killer than covid, when everything dies open up again.

Isolated populations really don't do well when exposed to pathogens from elsewhere.

There are definitely a few muppets and I've watched foolish behaviour and found it very frustrating. But the deciding much contact society is allowed is the job of the government. So if they've decided we can have too much, that is their responsibility. The virus has resurged because the government increased the overall amount of contact society had. And because they didn't set up decent T&T.
And also a part of it is no one's fault. Its just a very difficult virus to control.
But yes, thus thing spreads through breath. So please, please, please keep a distance from your friends when you are talking to them. So many people forget.

I quite agree with the op. We've had wishy washy 'leadership', an ineffectual lockdown, an ease in the 'lockdown-which-wasn't-quite', selfish people taking the piss, putting themselves and others at risk so we're back to square one, or almost. It was inevitable not just here but many other countries.

Where will it all end I wonder? We need a government that will redistribute some of the wealth they are sitting on so people won't be worried about paying their bills if they lose their jobs. We ourselves need to take the lockdown rules more seriously, they are there for the good of our collective health.

I do hope there is a safe vaccine next year.