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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that all the idiots have brought us back to total lockdown ?

441 replies

updownroundandround · 31/10/2020 18:02

So frustrated with all the people, from the ineffective and blustering MP to the idiots out trick or treating tonight............

When will people learn that a bloody pandemic cannot be ignored and that insisting on personal freedoms/ personal preferences is NOT going to shorten the lock downs or save the vulnerable ? Sad

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Belladonna12 · 02/11/2020 13:52

@VinylDetective

Less than 6K deaths by 16th October. The majority of people under 65 have not yet been infected

Haven’t they? You know this how? Are you saying the majority of people over 65 have been infected? You do realise you’re making absolutely no sense?

I'm saying that the majority of people under 65 have not been infected and yet there has still been 6K deaths. Why does this not make sense to you?
VinylDetective · 02/11/2020 14:07

And I’m saying the majority of people over 65 haven’t been infected (and there are fewer of them) yet there have been 40,000 deaths. Why doesn’t that make sense to you? I can guess actually but I try not to be rude.

justasking111 · 02/11/2020 14:07

@bottleofbeer

Those uni figures are interesting. The uni I attend has minimal cases. The other main uni in the city has high numbers. Why? Campus buildings are within a stone's throw of each other. Accommodations are close together. It makes no sense whatsoever that two universities in such close proximity to each other have such different figures.

Mine is (was) only allowing postgrad and PhD students into any buildings but I am told it is the same at the other one.

Doesn't stack up, really.

It is weird Leeds has high figures in some halls but not others. DS halls 900 rooms no cases. Who knows. He is second year, they all had it in the spring was rampant, so second years are fine no cases at all.
user1494050295 · 02/11/2020 14:15

The tories are not responsible for this virus

Oooooooooooooo · 02/11/2020 14:52

What a depressing thread to read.

It astonishes me that people are still blaming each other rather than the Government.

Some of us begged MPs to close the borders in January until we knew what we were dealing with. The numbers coming out of China made it clear it was extremely infectious and the R0 was somewhere between 3 and 5 unchecked.

MPs ignoref this and Boris went off on holiday before even bothering to attend meetings about it. Countries that did close their borders at that point mostly now enjoy pretty much normal life, just with no international travel. I think most people here would take that over this shitshow. Supporting businesses reliant on the travel industry would have cost an order of magnitude less than our Government has spent already, aside from the human suffering the ineptitude has caused and continues to cause.

They then, having let the virus get a hold on the country and despite seeing what had happened already in Italy and Spain, locked down too late (against the scientific advice from their advisors). This meant a much longer lockdown with more suffering and economic damage was needed to achieve the same position.

Then they released the lockdown too early (again against scientific advice) when case numbers were still too high for test and trace to manage.

They ignored establish local public health teams and bunged the test and trace contract to their mates who have spectacularly failed. They had all summer to fix this and told us themselves it was the key to preventing further lockdowns.

They also had all summer, and the data by then, to know opening universities would be a disaster. Courses should have been moved online from the start.

They also knew secondary schools would be a disaster because of the inability to distance. Tens of thousands of theatres, sports stadiums, sports centres, community halls, libraries, hotel conference rooms etc stand empty and could have been used to enable socially distanced teaching. But nothing was done.

Then yet again, all of these mistakes led to an entirely predictable (qnd predicted) rise in cases yet they ignored their advisors again and lock down 6 weeks later than advised when the virus is running riot.

Anybody who believes restrictions will be lifted in early Dec is living in cloud cuckoo land I'm afraid.

This was all entirely manageable had our Government been prepared. Pandemic has been top of the Government risk register for years in terms of likelihood and impact. Everyone knew it would happen, it was a question of when. Operation Cynus in 2016 told the Government exactly which parts of the UK infrastructure were vulnerable and underprepared for pandemic and what to do to fix this. Not one of those recommendations was acted upon.

Anybody still blaming the public for this is short of brain cells. Yes some people have behaved irresponsibly, which is always the case pandemic or not. That should have been factored into the planning. It is certainly not the cause of our present predicament. Your anger, OP, is entirely misplaced.

Goosefoot · 02/11/2020 15:18

If anything back in March and April people were doing more than the law required of them. The fallacy about one hour of exercise a day, for example. That was never true anywhere except Wales but so many people thought it was and observed it.

There has been a really different attitude to the idea of lockdown in recent weeks, compared to the Spring. At that time most people seemed to really support it, and many went out of their way to observe it.

Right now, apart from the masking controversy which really could have bene managed better, people are now saying two main things, from what I can see:

  1. Many are saying they cannot maintain a lockdown without serious (maybe catastrophic) damage to finances, or they think other people cannot.

  2. People may be willing to avoid things like bars etc, but they are not willing to avoid seeing people altogether, particularly extended family. Relatedly many are not willing to consider seeing no one during the holidays. There are also a good number who are seriously unhappy around people being shut into care homes for long periods.

All of which were entirely predictable, and it's useless and even stupid to imagine that the population would go along with them for more than a short time. Managing public health pandemics isn't about just "following the science" on how the disease spreads. It's also working within the limits of human behaviour and psychology.

Orcus · 02/11/2020 15:27

This is very true Goosefoot. And is also why the premise of the OP, even if it were actually correct, is self-indulgence, Humans are going to behave like humans, however convinced anyone might be by the argument that they shouldn't. Policy needs to be made with this in mind.

Belladonna12 · 02/11/2020 15:52

And I’m saying the majority of people over 65 haven’t been infected (and there are fewer of them) yet there have been 40,000 deaths. Why doesn’t that make sense to you? I can guess actually but I try not to be rude.

I'm not sure what your point is. Nobody is saying that many people over 65 haven't died. The point is the deaths in under 65 is not negligible and there will be a lot more deaths if there are more infections.

Rangoon · 02/11/2020 16:15

Well we locked down earlier and far harder than the UK and your new lockdown arrangements are still much looser than ours were. Of course now we have no community transmission or hardly any (after a few brief flareups). Life is almost back to normal with everything open except we can't travel overseas easily and we don't have overseas tourists. We assist citizens returning to quarantine for 14 days as well as having to get a negative covid test. This is run by the armed forces and it's not voluntary and there's no rubbish about self-isolating. Of course we had a PM who had daily press conferences about the progress in getting rid of Covid and there were really clear instructions.

VinylDetective · 02/11/2020 17:05

@Belladonna12

And I’m saying the majority of people over 65 haven’t been infected (and there are fewer of them) yet there have been 40,000 deaths. Why doesn’t that make sense to you? I can guess actually but I try not to be rude.

I'm not sure what your point is. Nobody is saying that many people over 65 haven't died. The point is the deaths in under 65 is not negligible and there will be a lot more deaths if there are more infections.

My point was in response to this - The false assumption behind that sentiment is that only a minority of the population is at risk

You argued with me, despite incontrovertible evidence that it isn’t a false assumption. About seven times more people over 65 have died of Covid, compared with those under 65. According to The Times:

ONS data shows that 22,301 people aged over 85 died of Covid-19 between December 28 last year and September 25 this year, and 17,096 people aged between 75 and 84. The figure decreased with age bands, falling to 7,803 people aged 65 to 74, 6,069 aged from 45 to 64, 581 aged between 15 and 44, four aged between one and 14, and two aged under one. A quarter of older people who died were suffering from advanced dementia.

You @Belladonna12, started this argument. What point are you trying to make?

Belladonna12 · 02/11/2020 17:33

My point was in response to this - The false assumption behind that sentiment is that only a minority of the population is at risk

The number of people at risk will be a lot higher than the number that have died so far. Firstly because not many people have been infected yet. Secondly because we can't predict exactly who will die. We can only look at risk factors. Quite a significant proportion of the population have risk factors and therefore would be considered "at risk". It's not possible to shield all those people. Thirdly, in terms of the NHS coping the proportion of people at risk of being hospitalised is very important as if hospitals are overwhelmed, people with other conditions could potentially not get the treatment they would normally receive.

jessstan1 · 02/11/2020 17:51

@VinylDetective

And I’m saying the majority of people over 65 haven’t been infected (and there are fewer of them) yet there have been 40,000 deaths. Why doesn’t that make sense to you? I can guess actually but I try not to be rude.
I can't guess, I also didn't know that was the case. Please share.
eaglejulesk · 02/11/2020 18:49

most years, the flu vaccine is considered successful if its 40% effective. Not everyone receives a flu vaccine.

I do realise that, but that is surely a matter of personal choice - they are available to everyone, but at a cost for many (and I have one, even though I have to pay, and I'm unemployed). Even if you get the flu after having the vaccine the effects are generally less severe.

Flu and pneumonia are currently killing 2.5 times as many people in the UK as covid, according to last week's figures from the ONS.

Pneumonia always kills many - it's a totally different beast to covid. As for flu, well in this part of the world flu cases, let alone deaths, were much lower over winter than usual.

emilybrontescorsett · 02/11/2020 21:14

Rangoon I might have missed it but which country are you in?

Oooooooooooooo · 02/11/2020 22:37

Also pretty depressing that having taken some time to reply factually to the OP, there is no response.

TheSeedsOfADream · 03/11/2020 07:25

@IncandescentSilver

Eaglesjulesk most years, the flu vaccine is considered successful if its 40% effective. Not everyone receives a flu vaccine.

Flu and pneumonia are currently killing 2.5 times as many people in the UK as covid, according to last week's figures from the ONS.

Thank goodness the ability to question is still alive in some people in Britain at least!

I'm attaching a screenshot of the most up to date comparisons (from the beginning of this year to the beginning of October) of deaths from flu, pneumonia and Covid from the ONS website. That seems to be the most up to date one on there. Can you link to the info you have that shows something different? The Excel on their site is from 8th October. I can't see a more recent one.
To think that all the idiots have brought us back to total lockdown ?
lovelemoncurd · 03/11/2020 07:33

Went to a cafe yesterday it was full of 18-25 year olds. Guess who were the only people not wearing masks. Two blokes that looked about 60 and 2 women that looked about 50 something. Makes you wonder who the snowflake generation actually is. PS I'm 53.

IncandescentSilver · 03/11/2020 07:56

TheSeedsOfADream I'm currently away from home with only my phone so cannot cut and paste. However, the ONS statistics readily available for the week before the latest lockdown was introduced showed that flu and pneumonia deaths in that week were more than 2 times higher than for covid. And we already kniw that flu and pneumonia deaths this winter are unusually low, which indicates that the picture is more complex than covid suddenly eradicating flu and pneumonia from the British population. Your table refers to the whole year as far as I can tell.

The point is, I wouldn't relax if I lived on an island which had seemingly eradicated covid because I'd be concerned about lowered community immunity when things opened up again.

eaglejulesk · 04/11/2020 06:58

The point is, I wouldn't relax if I lived on an island which had seemingly eradicated covid because I'd be concerned about lowered community immunity when things opened up again.

If you are talking about NZ we haven't completely eradicated covid and never said we had - there are still new cases most days in people entering the country, and one or two community cases pop up every now and again. It really doesn't matter if you are concerned or not - you don't live here! Those of us who do are not concerned at all, and tbh I would be a hell of a lot more concerned if I were living in the UK right now.

Also, what do you mean "when things open up again"? Other than the borders everything is open and has been for months.

LouiseBelchersBunnyEars · 04/11/2020 08:45

Unless the government engineered the virus, then they are not to blame.
We won’t know the true effect of this until it’s all over, and it’s far from over.
We may be able to keep the COVID infection rate down at all costs, but then we have to deal with the ‘all costs’.
Something has to give one way or the other, and screeching and pointing fingers because you can’t deal with the fact we are vulnerable to a deadly virus and there’s fuck all anyone can do about it doesn’t really help anyone.

As mentioned earlier, I used to wonder how people could conduct witch trials, how the gestapo managed to turn neighbour on to neighbour.

It’s depressingly clear now, and some of you need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

Belladonna12 · 04/11/2020 09:50

The point is, I wouldn't relax if I lived on an island which had seemingly eradicated covid because I'd be concerned about lowered community immunity when things opened up again.

Surely everything would be open already on an island where the virus had been eradicated so with your logic they would have better immunity to everything else then here. Not sure what you mean by lowered immunity when things open up again anyway. Not catching a cold for a few months isn't going to give you lowered immunity.

Dongdingdong · 04/11/2020 09:53

I blame the morons wearing masks around their fecking chins on the bus.

Rangoon · 05/11/2020 12:18

For the person who asked, I am a New Zealander. And no, we don't all live in isolated rural locations though obviously our cities are small by world standards. Taiwan, a very crowded place, has also done exceptionally well. At the moment, in New Zealand, we're being encouraged to use a covid app on our phones to provide a record of where we've been. Businesses display a card and we scan it on our phones to say we were there and when. It's meant to help with tracing if there is a flare up.

NameChange84 · 05/11/2020 13:18

At the moment, in New Zealand, we're being encouraged to use a covid app on our phones to provide a record of where we've been. Businesses display a card and we scan it on our phones to say we were there and when. It's meant to help with tracing if there is a flare up.

I do think NZ and Taiwan have dealt exceptionally well with the pandemic and have put Europe to shame.

Thought I’d best mention though that we too have the government App and QR codes at businesses...but here in the U.K. it’s been shambolic. Ghost notifications, people told too late or not told at all. People told to turn off the app at work etc.

bellinisurge · 05/11/2020 13:27

Failure to have a proper track and trace system in good time has put us in this position.