Terror attacks

[Clappingforjoy]

So aibu to think that anybody that draws cartoons of the prophet is asking for trouble and to wonder why the hell they do it and risk been attacked in the most barbaric way why oh why risk it.

There have been multiple other attacks since 2015 in France carried out against people for not being Muslim, including murders. The consequences are not necessarily going to be greater for French Muslims. You don’t know what attacks are ahead.

Although thinking about it logically if French is seeing a rise.
A total of 687 anti-Semitic acts were counted in 2019, compared to 541 the previous year.

Surely this is because people are blaming Jewish people for other Jewish people's behaviour or perceived behaviour?

@Stripesnomore

There have been multiple other attacks since 2015 in France carried out against people for not being Muslim, including murders. The consequences are not necessarily going to be greater for French Muslims. You don’t know what attacks are ahead.

But attacks are rising in France. Not sure if you know French, here is an article about an open letter French Muslim Mosques wrote to Macron this month about the increase in Islamophobic attacks on mosques and Muslims.

www.linfo.re/france/societe/hausse-des-attaques-contre-les-musulmans-un-collectif-de-mosquee-met-en-garde-macron

@howsers

People believe that Muslims are fighting against free speech and want special treatment because they feel offended by the caricatures (and rightly so, there were many depicting all Muslims as terrorists for instance) whereas the actual issue stems from the complete lack of respect from France given it history, it’s incredibly disrespectful (understatement) to cause suffering to millions of Muslims and then actively mock them. France is very quick to deny events, move on and try to leave everything in the past but the consequences of France’s actions are still very evident in many countries today.

@howsers

Although thinking about it logically if French is seeing a rise. A total of 687 anti-Semitic acts were counted in 2019, compared to 541 the previous year.

Surely this is because people are blaming Jewish people for other Jewish people's behaviour or perceived behaviour?

Perhaps. Or it's due to perceptions that aren't based on anyone's behaviour at all - for example attacking Jews because Jews are "stingy". This isn't retaliation for the behaviour of any given Jew, it's just hatred born from ignorance and stereotype. It could be either.

‘But attacks are rising in France.’

Yes, but that doesn’t mean Muslims are bearing the brunt of the increase in racism in France. Well over 1000 people have been killed or injured by racist Islamist attacks. Those are the people bearing the brunt of racism.

@WelcomeToManderley so the Ariana Grande attack was a given because of the UKs foreign policy?

‘and rightly so, there were many depicting all Muslims as terrorists for instance.’

This isn’t true. All of the Hebdo cartoons are available to view online, in translation. They are not about saying all Muslims are terrorists.

I'm off to enjoy Halloween now 🎃

Religious extremism must be fought from many angles. If we are silent in the name of maintaining peace, then freedom disappears.

@howsers

I’m not saying any attacks are a given, or justifying any of them.

I’m trying to point out that it’s not just Muslims being offended by an image or trying to curb free speech in France, there’s a much bigger picture. Does that mean that people should be killed? Of course not, and Muslims don’t think so either.

@Stripesnomore

‘But attacks are rising in France.’

Yes, but that doesn’t mean Muslims are bearing the brunt of the increase in racism in France. Well over 1000 people have been killed or injured by racist Islamist attacks. Those are the people bearing the brunt of racism.

The rise in anti-Muslim attacks after an incident is well documented, the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe have studied and reported it.

Being concerned about the backlash against Muslims after an attack takes nothing away from the murder victims.

www.osce.org/files/f/documents/9/0/448696.pdf

‘Spikes in reported hate crimes can occur following specific events, such as terrorist attacks or aggressive nationalist gatherings. In addition to locations where anti-Muslim incidents are likely to occur, it is also important to invest in increased security and police presence during times when more anti-Muslim hate crime is likely to be experienced, such as immediately following terror attacks or during high-profile political or media media events associated with public debates and conflated with anti-Muslim rhetoric. Particular attention should be paid during such times and police should be ordered to regularly patrol such sites’

Corona, nobody is denying that attacks against Muslims happen, or that they have increased in the past, or may increase in the future.

But the brunt of racist attacks since 2015 have not been carried out specifically against Muslims. The over 1000 deaths and injuries were not aimed at Muslims and those are the brunt of racist attacks.

You seem to think that once a racist attack is described as a murder or terrorist or an incident it no longer constitutes a racist attack.

But the brunt of racist attacks since 2015 have not been carried out specifically against Muslims. The over 1000 deaths and injuries were not aimed at Muslims and those are the brunt of racist attacks.

I’m not saying that Muslims received most of the racist attacks in France after 2015 were against Muslims. But it stands to reason that Muslims will face attacks after an attack like this.

However France doesn’t report ethnicity in its hate crime statistics (very convenient for them) so we don’t know the true number of racist attacks against black / North African Muslims.

You seem to think that once a racist attack is described as a murder or terrorist or an incident it no longer constitutes a racist attack.

No I totally agree it’s a racist attack.

If over 1000 Muslim people had been killed or injured in racist attacks over the last 5 years we would have heard about it.

If by the brunt you neither mean severity nor number I don’t know what else you could be referring to.

In France, obviously.

There is clearly a horrendous genocide in China.

Are you seriously blaming the victim’s?

If someone did bring a pork chop into a barmitzvah, the wurst that would happen is that they would be escorted off the premises and maybe the police would be informed. There’s zero chance that anyone would take out a religiously inspired contract on them...

@samG76

If someone did bring a pork chop into a barmitzvah, the wurst that would happen is that they would be escorted off the premises and maybe the police would be informed. There’s zero chance that anyone would take out a religiously inspired contract on them...

Aren’t mosques regularly defaced? Pigs heads thrown over the walls? I don’t see imams raising fatwas about it.

I wonder how the designer would react if, say, somebody who had managed to get a photo of their mother printed it on a t-shirt with a knife through her heart and bleeding, with a caption saying "Your Mum: Dead " (but uncensored).

But @WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll that is a straw man argument because that would have no social commentary at all. I don't know if you have read Charlie Hebdo but it would be like saying Private Eye crosses the line on one issue when in fact it has given satirical commentary on all issues it covers. Whether you agree with the angle it takes is one thing, but Charlie Hebdo has consistent satirical commentary across the board on all issues it chooses to feature. It's just this one made the headlines because of the fallout from one of those groups. But the 'what if it was your mum' argument is nonsensical. All of us would be upset if some things happened to people close to us if the same things happened to a group or culture or system. I would be upset if my dad was personally attacked by a satirical cartoon, but if they attacked a structure he works in (the police) I would still defend the artist's right to create and share that cartoon even if I disagreed with the message. They are totally different situations.

I am not a Muslim, I do not wear a head covering. However, if anyone tried to prevent the wearing of head coverings, I would defend a Muslim woman's right to wear one.

This is a meaningless platitude. No one is defending Muslim women being arrested for wearing burkinis on French beaches.

@doodleygirl

Are you seriously blaming the victim’s?

The victim's what? I also thought there was more than one victim in France.

• doodleygirl Are you seriously blaming the victim’s? The victim's what? I also thought there was more than one victim in France.*

Don't be THAT poster. Nobody's going to be impressed.

The asterisks were unintentional, sorry.

The thing is, I don't think it's really part of French culture. Charlie Hebdo is like Private Eye. It's not your average sense of humour. Hardly anyone really reads it. Nobody I know pisses themselves laughing at those cartoons. So, I think it's now become a taunt. Or a point to be made. I don't get it. Of course freedom of speech is a right, but I don't quite see the point of pushing a style of "humour" that very few people ever really enjoyed. The picture was of the Prophet Mohammed bent over with his cock and balls out and a star over his anus. It's not exactly the cleverest humour, is it? It's not saying much. What is it saying? These radical Islamic terrorists aren't killing people because of "satire" or "freedom of speech". They're already so far gone that they just need one of "us" to tick a few boxes to justify killing someone. If that teacher hadn't shown those cartoons in that class, he'd still be alive (and there's room for debate as to whether 14/15-year-olds should be looking at cocks and balls in class like that?), but the man that killed him would have killed someone else at some point. I never hear anything other than these people don't respect our right to satire... and it was just a cartoon. It's not about that. These terrorists are being brainwashed into insanity and we need to find out why.