Terror attacks

[Clappingforjoy]

So aibu to think that anybody that draws cartoons of the prophet is asking for trouble and to wonder why the hell they do it and risk been attacked in the most barbaric way why oh why risk it.

Other religions are mocked and it doesn't end in murder. How many people were killed after the Life of Brian was shown? None. I don't agree with mocking any religion and I don't like the cartoons in question but the problem here lies squarely with some members of one religion, not with the victims.

Nope. Not Irish but some Irish people who hold extreme views on how to deal with perceived wrongs and the even smaller minority who act upon it.

I dont recall any wrong being a cartoon or taking the piss out of the Irish, although its possible, I would doubt it.

(or even non Irish to rile it up)

We should make fun of religions. All of them. They are all silly in their own ways, deeply flawed, and often in conflict with the values of the countries we live in Western Europe: freedom of speech, equality, freedom from dogmas created centuries or millennia ago. And I speak as a Catholic.
Religious people feelings should never be held higher than them.
To back down would be cowardice, and a dereliction of duty to protect our very expensively paid rights, and I support Macron in his stance.

Yabu- and extremely distasteful

As a muslim myself, I have to say that these extremist pieces of shit are not muslims......their beliefs bare no resemblance to the teachings of Islam. They bend and twist the teachings to suit their warped beliefs. They are despicable and do a huge disservice to the majority of muslims who are decent honest law abiding people.

In an ideal world should we be able to say whatever we want without repercussion? Absolutely. But we do not live in an ideal world and there are sick people out there who will twist peoples words to suit their own agenda. Does that mean we should not speak out?Absolutely not but we should be aware of the risks involved.

Extremists are extremists no matter what their religion but as a muslim I despair of these vile individuals who hold a warped view of their religion up as an excuse for abhorrent behaviour and do so much damage to decent honest muslims.

Also I saw a post that said prophets were fictional. Not true. Mohammed was a real person as was Jesus who is himself a prophet in Isam.

all Piddy68

What I do not understand is the reaction to Macron. The Muslims protesting and the comments from leaders in the Middle East and Turkey. I wanted to ask you what do think about this affecting Muslims communities. The people may take it as condoning the killings?

OP
This article discusses your opinion

I offer it without comment or any opinion on it
I was online and thought of this thread when I saw it. I know nothing about secularism in France.

@IamEarthymama

OP This article discusses your opinion

I offer it without comment or any opinion on it
I was online and thought of this thread when I saw it. I know nothing about secularism in France.

That's a terrifying take.

What I do not understand is the reaction to Macron. The Muslims protesting and the comments from leaders in the Middle East and Turkey. I wanted to ask you what do think about this affecting Muslims communities. The people may take it as condoning the killings?

Aren’t the Muslim communities exercising their right to protest? Many people seem to think free speech is for everyone but Muslims.

Muslim people are entitled to be upset as long as they don’t hurt anyone of course.

Fascist ideologies are back in Europe and want to turn us into a subservient hell hole from whence they came. In France they have freedom of speech. In Scotland the Scottish Nazi Party has removed this freedom to pander to fascists.
www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/29/sending-the-thought-polis-into-scottish-homes/

all Cadent Macron was basically saying he will not tolerate more extremists attacks. So are they protesting he said this? Macron is not right wing or any idiot that says wherever. So still very confused about this.

@IamEarthymama

OP This article discusses your opinion

I offer it without comment or any opinion on it
I was online and thought of this thread when I saw it. I know nothing about secularism in France.

Read the Quran and Hadiths to see how Muslims are required to treat unbelievers. The Bible is no better, but it isn't the word of God that cannot be challenged. We are moving back to the time of prereformation Europe. The Spanish inquisition was supposed to be a warning from history, not a 'how to' guide.There are 13 countries where Atheism is punishable by death. All 13 have one common trait. Guess what it is. Can you imagine the outrage if there was one country where being a Muslim was punishable by death, let alone 13?! Where is the outrage?

@Piddy68 unfortunately I disagree that these people are not Muslim. Although most Muslims may disagree with the more extreme punishments such as death for apostasy and blasphemy, you cannot say that these terrorists are just plucking it from nowhere. Countries that run on Islamic prinicples such as Iran, Pakistan and Saudi also have these laws- have they got this wrong?

A teacher I used to work with was a devout Muslim. I asked him where I could find out more about Islam and he suggested Islamqa was a reputable source. This website also suggests that the punishment for blasphemy and apostasy is death. Is that also incorrect?

Our local mosque (when I lived in the UK) got into a bit of trouble when the longstanding imams there called the man who was executed for shooting the governor of Punjab a martyr. The governor of Punjab had said that the death for blasphemy punishment was too extreme - he was killed by a fanatic who was then executed. Hence was seen as a martyr as he was killed for defending Islamic principles ie death for the blasphemy of suggesting Islamic death for blasphemy laws were too strict.

These were the crowds at his funeral www.google.co.uk/search?q=mumtaz+qadri+martyr&prmd=nvi&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiT_MnTw-HsAhULAcAKHWXHAIsQ_AUoA3oECAUQAw#imgrc=EUIYnIUY_ipz7M presumably they all believed him to be an Islamic martyr too.

I think many Muslims disagree with the more extreme punishments, however let's not pretend these are nothing to do with Islam.

YANBU.

It's just not worth the danger it attracts, the loss of life. Just don't mock and draw caricatures of prophets, thats not hard to do. & Why do it anyway? I don't have to like someone's religious beliefs but I won't openly mock them. Unneccessary goading is the pits but it'll be justified because Islamophobia is rife and the 'I'm White Western will say & do as I like when I like' rules. There's zero excuse for the killings. There's zero excuse to keep up mockery. What has it achieved?

If we're going to bring back blasphemy laws we might as well return to the middle ages and stop teaching kids that the earth revolves around the sun. All very heretical.

@DeeCeeCherry It has nothing to do with "I'm White Western will say & do as I like when I like". What the fuck does that even mean? A bit of race baiting?
Religions and their tenets have to be open to critisism and discussion, especially when some of their interpretations are in opposition to the ethics and values of the countries we live in. It includes their important figure heads, like Mohamed. There is plenty to criticize about the man that is considered as a template for what a good Muslim should be. If we don't, we perpetuate a toxic model.

@DeeCeeCherry

YANBU.

It's just not worth the danger it attracts, the loss of life. Just don't mock and draw caricatures of prophets, thats not hard to do. & Why do it anyway? I don't have to like someone's religious beliefs but I won't openly mock them. Unneccessary goading is the pits but it'll be justified because Islamophobia is rife and the 'I'm White Western will say & do as I like when I like' rules. There's zero excuse for the killings. There's zero excuse to keep up mockery. What has it achieved?

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." George Orwell, "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."

Why would a western woman want to live without freedom and liberty?

@monstermancs

If we're going to bring back blasphemy laws we might as well return to the middle ages and stop teaching kids that the earth revolves around the sun. All very heretical.

Or, the earth is flat (like a carpet), the sun sets into a muddy spring, the sun has a resting place, the mountains are there to stop earthquakes, salt water and fresh water don't mix, etc..

@OfaFrenchmind2

Religions and their tenets have to be open to critisism and discussion

Agreed and Muslims debating Islam happens on a daily basis with people of other faiths without any upset caused.

But this is completely different. As I said above, it’s incredibly disrespectful for a country to cause suffering to millions of Muslims and then actively mock them as if they’re on an even keel and nothing ever happened.

What prophet? I don't get this thread.

MrFish who's stopping you living without liberty and how exactly would drawing caricatures rectify that anyway? Are Muslims in France behaving in 'in your face' fashion towards non-Muslims, demanding liberty is given up and drawing caricatures of Christian figures? Of course they aren't at all, but goady Islamophobists will have it their way won't they.

It has nothing to do with "I'm White Western will say & do as I like when I like" What the fuck does that even mean? A bit of race baiting?

Ofafrench 🙄 it has everything to do with it. If as your username suggests, you are French/live in France then you know exactly how Muslims are demonised and how badly a lot of them are forced to live.

All of it is a shit show but I'm not buying the 'innocent West wants freedom of speech' lines at all. That will only fool people who's only world view is via Western media.

@FrenchtoEnglish

The thing is, I don't think it's really part of French culture. Charlie Hebdo is like Private Eye. It's not your average sense of humour. Hardly anyone really reads it. Nobody I know pisses themselves laughing at those cartoons. So, I think it's now become a taunt. Or a point to be made. I don't get it. Of course freedom of speech is a right, but I don't quite see the point of pushing a style of "humour" that very few people ever really enjoyed. The picture was of the Prophet Mohammed bent over with his cock and balls out and a star over his anus. It's not exactly the cleverest humour, is it? It's not saying much. What is it saying? These radical Islamic terrorists aren't killing people because of "satire" or "freedom of speech". They're already so far gone that they just need one of "us" to tick a few boxes to justify killing someone. If that teacher hadn't shown those cartoons in that class, he'd still be alive (and there's room for debate as to whether 14/15-year-olds should be looking at cocks and balls in class like that?), but the man that killed him would have killed someone else at some point. I never hear anything other than these people don't respect our right to satire... and it was just a cartoon. It's not about that. These terrorists are being brainwashed into insanity and we need to find out why.

It was the cartoon with the bomb in the hair...

"Are Muslims in France behaving in 'in your face' fashion towards non-Muslims"

Does stabbing people to death count as "in your face"?