AIBU to not let DS stayover at MILs after this -dog concerns

[TheMILinatorReturns]

Name changed Sorry Long rant...
Half term, MIL kindly agreed to look after 3YO DS...all going well, photos of fun activities etc and grateful of the help. Then I get a phone call to say she's confessing she has allowed a relative to bring her staffordshire bull terrier into the house with DS present which is something DH told her specifically not to do. I'm guessing she had to 'confess' because DS would have told me anyway...

I'm pretty livid because I don't trust dogs, especially the big ones around my small child and particularly ones I have never met myself. I know I will get flamed for this by diehard dog lovers but to me dogs are animals and can easily flip when under stress, small children and dogs together are (IMHO) an unpredictable mix and an unnecessary risk I wanted to avoid with our child. Also she has not respected my wishes by allowing this (she has past form for this).

Another point is this particular breed doesn't have a great reputation, they are powerful muscular dogs and there are a lot of children according to news channels who have been killed or left with life changing injuries in this country alone. I have actually had a bad experience with one myself when I had to do a home visit and was knocked to the ground and had it not been wearing a muzzle I am not sure what would have happened but that's another story.

Granted I am sure the majority of these dogs are lovely pets and great around kids but.... I was not comfortable with this and DH communicated it to MIL, I never thought she would go ahead anyway. She has apologised says it was an 'accident' she 'thought it was a delivery' and the dog just came running in. This says to me it was out of control for one, surely it should have been on a lead on the street outside...? She says she held DS on her lap whilst the relative sat across the room with the dog and it was 'only five minutes' and the relative had come with a present for DS (his birthday soon). I suppose it is good she has admitted it and apologised but to be honest I think she is trying to minimise it and I don't know why she didn't just say 'please will you take the dog away whilst my grandson is here'. She could even have blamed it on me and said my crazy DIL wont let me have dogs in the house whilst I have my grandson here, I wouldn't have cared. To me she has prioritised the relatives feelings over my sons safety. This is really difficult for me because on the one hand I feel everyone will think I am overreacting but on the other had something gone wrong and the dog got jealous (it often stays with MIL apparently) and bitten DS... it just doesn't bear thinking about. Trying to put this into perspective as nothing actually happened (and I will probably be accused of PFBS) but the fact is she knew our wishes, WHY then allow this to happen, I just don't get it? It was the only rule we lay down, didn't even say don't feed him up with sweets and chocolate (which she always does) because we realise this is a grandparent thing. Part of me wonders if she is trying to push my buttons on purpose as she has been difficult over other issues in the past (she can be quite overbearing and manipulative - I never thought spiteful though). She called me up on video call to 'confess' and I wonder if she wanted to witness my reaction. I really want DS to see his grandparents but I am going to sit worrying about this bloody dog being near him now if I send him back there to stayover and that I cannot trust MIL to do as we have asked. AIBU to tell MIL she can see DS but only at our house or at hers when we are there and no more staying over? DH will support this. However I don't want to be accused by SIL and other family members of keeping MIL away from DS...what to do?!

It totally is not irrational AT ALL. A sdmall child can be killed by a dog.
I would have been furious.
I have a cat that attacks children, she hates them and my cat is locked in my bedroom when I have visitors.
I used to be a district nurse and have been bitten by "Oh don't mind him he wouldn't harm a fly" Fido several times on my rounds, all different dogs.
I simply would not trust a strange dog with my child.
It is not an irrational fear, it's perfectly valid.

@VeniceQueen2004

If I decided to keep a boa constrictor I think people would be a bit vexed if I let it slither up to them in the park or brought it into their homes, no matter how friendly and cute I thought it was.

Or a crocodile...(earlier someone said I was acting as if an SBT is a crocodile).

@MrsJunglelow you totally miss my point. A LARGE dog with large jaws of steel is totally different league to a tiny little daschund, which may bite but whose tiny little mouth isn’t going to crush a child’s head, throat etc in its jaws, that you could easily get off a child if it attacked.

Sorry to other readers to be so graphic but we all (except Mrs Jungkelow) do read the papers and understand what types of dogs actually have killed children and opposed little scrap of a dog that can nip.

@madcatladyforever

It totally is not irrational AT ALL. A sdmall child can be killed by a dog. I would have been furious. I have a cat that attacks children, she hates them and my cat is locked in my bedroom when I have visitors. I used to be a district nurse and have been bitten by "Oh don't mind him he wouldn't harm a fly" Fido several times on my rounds, all different dogs. I simply would not trust a strange dog with my child. It is not an irrational fear, it's perfectly valid.

You've also had a bad experience visiting a house with a dog through work. It definitely changes your opinion. And it proves my point that dogs can be lovely until there is a sudden change in situation (like meeting a new adult or a child for the first time in a space they believe is part of their 'territory') which if not carefully and sensibly managed can result in stress on the dog and worst case scenario attack on the person. Happy for my son to be around dogs if I am around to supervise. But not ideally not big or scary dogs in a confined space. I guess I'm realise I wouldn't have to have even mentioned it to my own parents as they just know. So I guess I didn't trust her beforehand

In my experience, staffies are gorgeous dogs that are incredibly affectionate and protective, however due to the size of the dog that can be overwhelming for someone who isn’t used to it.
I visit people in their homes as part of my work, I adore all dogs and meeting them is the highlight of my working day. I’ve had a Staffie that I’ve never met before run across a room and leap into my arms for kisses :) he left big scratches on my neck but he didn’t mean to hurt me. I can imagine it would be a scary experience for someone not used to it. For me it made my day.

You are not wrong to be annoyed as you gave a specific request. Dogs are unpredictable at the best of times, even my old dog had a go at a friend of mine the other day for seemingly no reason at all.

@MrsJunglelow you totally miss my point. A LARGE dog with large jaws of steel is totally different league to a tiny little daschund, which may bite but whose tiny little mouth isn’t going to crush a child’s head, throat etc in its jaws, that you could easily get off a child if it attacked
Uh huh.
They may be having their day right now as a cutesy little Instagram fashion accessory but Dachshunds were and still are ‘proper’ hunting dogs.
Most still retain strong hunting instinct.
Dachshunds were bred originally to kill badgers.
Badgers are fairly large and pretty strong animals, they average 11kg (1.732 stones) but can go right up to 27kg (4.252 stones)
So I’m quite sure, pushed far enough, a Dachshund is more than capable of inflicting serious, if not fatal damage to a young child.

Sorry to other readers to be so graphic but we all (except Mrs Jungkelow) do read the papers and understand what types of dogs actually have killed children and opposed little scrap of a dog that can nip
As a PP said upthread, the media has put the staffy up as a symbol of low class, of gangs, of benefit culture.

The statistics show that dog bites roughly correlate with popularity, hence why Labradors and spaniels score so highly and why when toy breeds starting getting popular the Dachshund and Jack Russell terrier started taking over.

We know that a major risk factor for dog attacks, particularly fatal ones is poverty.
But it is a great deal easier to just blame the breed.

OP and DH are the parents
They made a decision and asked mil to respect it
It isn't an unusual nor unreasonable request

Doesn't matter what other PPs on here think OP about dogs and children, you get to make reasonable parental rules for your DC

So still see MIL with DS but don't leave him there as MIL puts others feelings and her views above your wishes and parental rules. She told you which is good as you'll still be speaking to her but take precautions

Btw I I won't identify my profession. but I know exactly how regulatory agencies would view this

OP yanbu

Ignore everything else

As a dog owner OP YANBU.

Young children and dogs don’t always mix. It only takes a second for something to go wrong. My dog has grown with my kids and she’s trusted but I wouldn’t ever put her in a position where something could happen.

Just because you don’t like dogs DOES NOT mean your dc will be the same. My mum was terrified to the point she wouldn’t walk past one. I’ve had several in my life.

I would also be upset about this. I have a huge german shepherd who honestly is so gentle. However my young granddaughter would never be left alone with him because you can never be 100% certain of anything with an animal.
I highly doubt anything would have happened as the dog was supervised however your wishes should have been respected. My dog is really familiar with my granddaughter however loud, sudden movements from a small child can make a dog nervous so I prefer to keep them separate.
I would tell her that if it happens again then you will have to find someone else to take your son. There is no reason why she cannot phone her friend and ask she visit without the dog. A good friend would certainly understand a situation such as this.

(posted way upthread but wanted to add .)Would like to add maybe your dc isn't suitable to be around a ddog? When I had dgs from a young baby he lived with 4 big labs. He was very much ddog aware. Here we had 4 also. He wasn't fazed at all. Barely interested in them tbh. A non ddog household dc is a different dc to be around any ddog.
Please don't project your fears onto your dc.
A dc is missing out not having a ddoggy playmate ime.

I would be absolutely livid and bring my child back

But I do think the news articles I posted warrant discussion. Why do they have a bad press? What possible agenda could they have to smear one particular dog breed?

In the 70s the press blamed Dobermans.
In the 80s the press blamed German Shepards.
In the 90s the press blamed Rottweilers.
Now it's staffys!

Why are you so hung up on news articles?! It's really unreliable.

Not read every post but I don't think YABU. I own two of the sweetest dogs, and would NEVER have them around a child if I knew the parent had asked for their child to not be near strange dogs, especially in the house. Common sense. It's all good until your child has stitches from a dog that was unused to children and misinterpreted some behaviour from the child. Dogs are not robots, they might be fine in their own homes with children they know, but someone else's home and a child they don't know? Different situation, so their behaviour might be different.

Op I think that your getting a hard time. I am a dog owner and have been most of my life. However small children and dogs don't mix.
When I was a teenager are beloved basset hound had a stroke (unknown to us) and as my father walked past its bed it just attacked him for no reason he ended up with really bad injuries to his hand and arm which needed skin grafts, it took 3 of us to get the dog off my dad and locked in another room. The vet had to come to us to put him down. It was terrifying and that was a gentle sweet dog. If it had been a small child they would be dead.
The problem with dogs like staffies is the size. The bigger the dog the more damage they can do. Though believe it or not small dogs like yorkies bite many more people than staffies do, but because they are small they do less damage.
Small children are unpredictable and can aggravate/provoke a dog without meaning to, they also can't understand a dogs body language, stress signs. So until children are old enough to learn these signs they shouldn't be around dogs.

@cabinfever10 or better yet, they could be saved the trouble of "learning the signs" by the simple expedient of dog people keeping their damn dogs to themselves and on a lead.

I love SBT and I think they are fantastic dogs especially with children but that said I'm very cautious of strange dogs near my kids I don't care what breed they are , especially a child as young as 3.

I would be Cross too especially as you had requested dogs you don't know aren't allowed near your child

@VeniceQueen2004 I agree that people should keep their dogs on a lead when out and I always do. But children will come into contact with dogs and should know how to read them and not to run up to leashed dogs to pet them ie taught to ask if its OK 1st.
Unfortunately not everyone with dogs walk them on leads and not everyone teaches their children dog safety.
Also when small children are visiting a home with a dog they should be in separate rooms until the children are old enough to behave appropriately around the dog but never left alone together as dogs are animals and can never be 100% trusted no matter how well trained they are.
It would be wonderful if everyone behaved sensibly when it comes to dogs but they don't so all we can do is to teach children how to be safe and hope that they don't run into a dangerous situation.
I'd love to see leash laws in this country as lm fed up of dealing with poorly trained dogs and their moronic owners who say they're just being friendly when in reality they can't control their dogs

I agree that people should keep their dogs on a lead when out
Not terribly fair on active dogs who are well behaved and under control though is it?
I have a working breed, from working stock, she really benefits from an off leash run, she doesn’t approach others and will recall back to me.
There is absolutely no requirement in the uk for her to be leashed, just ‘under control’.
Firm up the laws for irresponsible owners by all means, don’t punish the rest of us doing nothing wrong!

They can turn on a sixpence, totally unprovoked (and invariably have owners who profess surprise and say they've never done that before). Once they have a target in their sights they're also very determined.

Sorry, only on page 5 but had to chime in here.
No dog will turn ''unprovoked" unless they have a serious neurological condition. The issue is that 90% of owners can't read dog body language and are unable to recognise when their dog is stressed.
A friend recently posted a photo of her toddler bouncing on her dog, the dog was extremely stressed and giving many warnings that it was uncomfortable in the situation. Nobody in the house knew or thought the dog cared. This could have ended up as one of those "out of the blue" bites.

OP YABU for your breed prejudice. Forget daily mail articles, go off and look at bite statistics. Labs, Collies, German Shepherds Jack Russells are all statistically more likely to bite. The press just like to report on staffies because they're the flavour of the month. If it's another breed they won't specify the type.
Any animal with teeth can bite if stressed enough.

YANBU for being irritated that your wishes were ignored, however your fear of dogs seems irrational and you should work on this before passing it on to your child.

I do understand your perspective somewhat. My FILs dog is very stressed around children. I know this as I am a behaviourist and can read that dog like a book.
Nobody in the family believes me (don't know why I get ignored) because he has "never bitten" - I honestly believe that at some point he will as he has been pushed and pushed for years. My child is not going to be in that line of fire and therefore does not go to a house where nobody listens to me about the dog. I don't care who I piss off.

But that is very warranted because I am seeing about 7 signs that the dog is stressed around children. It isn't based on breed. If he was totally relaxed around children, I wouldn't mind, providing they were never ever left unsupervised.

Propercrimboselecta

Can you tell us some of the signs to look for when a dog is stressed. That would be helpful.

Blueraccoon

Licking their lips, yawning when they aren't tired, showing the whites of their eyes (you can't see these unless they are stressed), looking away from something, repeated blinking, tension across face (think furrowed brow and tight muzzle), leaning away from something, lifting up one front paw, ears back, tails tucked, hard staring (this is a warning), dipping their head low, walking away from what is stressing them, growling (a growl should never be punished, it is a form of communication to try and prevent anything further, if a dog growls we need to look at why it felt the need to do so), pacing and heavy panting, freezing entirely (get the kid away if there is a freeze). To name a few. There are more but these are the more obvious ones that avoid jargon.

Some dogs are physically limited from doing all of this (e.g. French bull dogs who have flat faces and no tail) so not every sign will be present.

I am with you 100% , your child your rules. I would tell her politely that you are very upset and ask for guarantees that it wouldn’t happen again.
I can’t believe that people think that you are being OTT.

Op yanbu. While there are many responsible dog owners, there are also many who should never be allowed to own dogs. The fact that this dog, with I assume no recall skills as it apparently just ran in, was allowed into the home with no restraint around an unfamiliar child was downright irresponsible.

Why on earth did the dog need to be there anyway? Surely if the visit was only 5 minutes as mil insists the dog could have stayed home while the owner popped in? I strongly believe that there is a correlation between owners who will selfishly not be parted from the dog in any circumstance, even while visiting others in their own homes, and animals who are treated as spoiled babies rather than the pets that they are and allowed to do exactly as they please.

Dog attacks are not an uncommon occurrence unfortunately and you have every right to be concerned. I would not have my child around an unrestrained, unfamiliar dog, particularly when said dog is clearly not well trained.

Dogs are wonderful creatures, I love mine more than I like most people, but they are pets. They should not be allowed around children without being closely monitored and I am not sure this has happened here. I think you are right to stop these visits and I would ensure your dh passes on the message so you can be sure that mil understands that he feels the same way.