AIBU to not let DS stayover at MILs after this -dog concerns

[TheMILinatorReturns]

Name changed Sorry Long rant...
Half term, MIL kindly agreed to look after 3YO DS...all going well, photos of fun activities etc and grateful of the help. Then I get a phone call to say she's confessing she has allowed a relative to bring her staffordshire bull terrier into the house with DS present which is something DH told her specifically not to do. I'm guessing she had to 'confess' because DS would have told me anyway...

I'm pretty livid because I don't trust dogs, especially the big ones around my small child and particularly ones I have never met myself. I know I will get flamed for this by diehard dog lovers but to me dogs are animals and can easily flip when under stress, small children and dogs together are (IMHO) an unpredictable mix and an unnecessary risk I wanted to avoid with our child. Also she has not respected my wishes by allowing this (she has past form for this).

Another point is this particular breed doesn't have a great reputation, they are powerful muscular dogs and there are a lot of children according to news channels who have been killed or left with life changing injuries in this country alone. I have actually had a bad experience with one myself when I had to do a home visit and was knocked to the ground and had it not been wearing a muzzle I am not sure what would have happened but that's another story.

Granted I am sure the majority of these dogs are lovely pets and great around kids but.... I was not comfortable with this and DH communicated it to MIL, I never thought she would go ahead anyway. She has apologised says it was an 'accident' she 'thought it was a delivery' and the dog just came running in. This says to me it was out of control for one, surely it should have been on a lead on the street outside...? She says she held DS on her lap whilst the relative sat across the room with the dog and it was 'only five minutes' and the relative had come with a present for DS (his birthday soon). I suppose it is good she has admitted it and apologised but to be honest I think she is trying to minimise it and I don't know why she didn't just say 'please will you take the dog away whilst my grandson is here'. She could even have blamed it on me and said my crazy DIL wont let me have dogs in the house whilst I have my grandson here, I wouldn't have cared. To me she has prioritised the relatives feelings over my sons safety. This is really difficult for me because on the one hand I feel everyone will think I am overreacting but on the other had something gone wrong and the dog got jealous (it often stays with MIL apparently) and bitten DS... it just doesn't bear thinking about. Trying to put this into perspective as nothing actually happened (and I will probably be accused of PFBS) but the fact is she knew our wishes, WHY then allow this to happen, I just don't get it? It was the only rule we lay down, didn't even say don't feed him up with sweets and chocolate (which she always does) because we realise this is a grandparent thing. Part of me wonders if she is trying to push my buttons on purpose as she has been difficult over other issues in the past (she can be quite overbearing and manipulative - I never thought spiteful though). She called me up on video call to 'confess' and I wonder if she wanted to witness my reaction. I really want DS to see his grandparents but I am going to sit worrying about this bloody dog being near him now if I send him back there to stayover and that I cannot trust MIL to do as we have asked. AIBU to tell MIL she can see DS but only at our house or at hers when we are there and no more staying over? DH will support this. However I don't want to be accused by SIL and other family members of keeping MIL away from DS...what to do?!

I'm confused about the way you keep describing Staffies as big dogs. They're medium at most.

I'm not a fan of the breed myself but whilst I think you're being very OTT, I think you're actually right about MIL ignoring your wishes

I've owned Staffies for the last 20 years (sadly just had to have my girl put to sleep last week) and I don't think YAB entirely U. Who is the relation to you/DH to know that there was a chance of the dog being there? I'm a massive dog lover but I don't think I'd be happy with my DC being around a dog of that strength without having met it first. Small children are unpredictable and loud which in turn could make a dog unpridictable as they don't know how to read each others signals

So .., MIL lied, lied and lied some more as your DS was petting the dog. The one that was brought round to her house whilst DS was there. And didn't just accidentally run in. Nor was he immediately sat on MILs lap a distance from the dog.

Despite DH and you saying no dogs around DS

There are some bossy MNers on here telling you what to think and how yabu not to like dogs. Luckily , they're irrelevant , they're not DS's parents, you are. MIL cannot be trusted. She broke your one stipulation from both of DS's parents, if she wanted DS to stay at hers, then she lied to get out of any repercussions. Whilst all along knowing she didn't care for your no dogs around DS and arranged for or invited in a relative with dog into her house to see DS and be petted by him.

I knew her story was iffy, it didn't make sense.

YANBU

I wouldn’t trust mil in future.

I wouldn’t want my child in a house with a bull breed either, especially one that came ‘running in’ before it’s owner!

Sure many staffies love kids; but many are crossbreeds with rescue backgrounds and can be triggered unexpectedly, eg by a toddler screaming or running around. ‘Soft and gentle’ dogs can suddenly turn without warning!

All the posters saying ‘get over your fear’ is a bit pointless as your fear is for your child. I’m sure OP is capable of introducing her child to dogs when ready, and might prefer to start with something smaller and less powerful than a staffie!

@tearstainedbakes

By height they may be, by weight and strength not necessarily.

By height they may be, by weight and strength not necessarily

Which breed are you referring to (sorry can’t find the original post)

You cannot teach your child to fear dogs, and it's actually very important that your child learns how to behave around dogs.

The ONLY reason it's important that the child learns how to behave around dogs is because dog ownwers don't control their dogs. That is it. If I had my way I would never be within touching distance of a dog, any dog, I think they're stupid ugly smelly and occasionally dangerous animals and I don't like them. But because other people love them and don't see fit to control them I have to put up with them running up to me, jumping on me, dribbling on me, and accept the risk they may attack me.

So I've learned to freeze when every inch of me wants to run. I've learned to pick up my child when I see a dog off a lead because of the number of dogs that roam the park leadless and apparently ownerless (gazing at their phone or talking to their mate whilst their dog belts towards us barking). I've learned to say in a loud clear unfriendly voice "Please get your dog away from us, I don't like them" as without this dog owners will just smile benignly while their mutt jumps all over me and dirties my clothes with mud and slobber.

I won't teach my daughter to fear animals, even though I do. But I will teach her, because it is absolutely true, that an animal you don't know that is not restrained absolutely is a risk and must be treated as such; and that even an animal you do know is an animal, not a human being, and cannot be completely trusted.

The comparison with cats is bloody hilarious. Anyone who leaves a newborn unattended at all is an idiot. Anyone who leaves a newborn unattended with a cat, or indeed any other pet, is utterly negligent. But the day a cat kills a toddler then it is comparable. SBTs kill grown adults, easily. As do many other breeds of dog that I have to put up with running up to me and my child barking and jumping while their moronic owner calls out "she's just being friendly, she loves children!" from thirty feet away.

@RattleOfBars

SBTs

Honestly this thread. It's made me realise how ridiculous dog owners can be, they genuinely think they have a right to inflict their preference on everyone else even though it is demonstrably a potential hazard. And that it is not up to them to ensure their dog doesn't hurt anyone, but down to the victim to ensure they behave 'in the right way' so their dog won't attack. It's so incredibly entitled. It's like the parents whose toddlers are known biters and hitters who think that it is fine to just let their children do it to other children because 'it's just a phase' - yes, it is, but while you know it's a risk you take the necessary measures to protect other children!

You cannot teach your child to fear dogs, and it's actually very important that your child learns how to behave around dogs

Many children instinctively fear dogs, especially big bouncy ones that tower over them.

My dd went through a dog phobic phase after a dog jumped on her in the park and knocked her face down in the mud! Owners were unapologetic and insisted dog was just playful. They were shocked when I angrily told them to put him on a lead!

I’ve taught my DD not to approach or touch dogs, not to run when an off lead dog is nearby and not to frighten them with shouting or being noisy. If we pass a dog she knows to get off her scooter/bike as some dogs are afraid or reactive.

I just wish more owners would keep their dogs leashed or to heel in public. Owners of widely feared breeds (STBs, mastiffs, bull breed crosses, Dobermans, rotties, GS etc) need to understand many people are afraid. They are powerful, muscular dogs who can do a lot of damage very quickly. IMO any dog with a strong prey drive or threatening appearance should be leashed in public. Everyone has the right to enjoy public spaces without fear of off lead dogs approaching them.

Dogs are unpredictable. I’d be particularly worried about a SBT loose around a baby/toddler as they have such a powerful bite and the tendency to hang on and shake when they bite. They can be very reluctant to let go too, resulting in far more damage to skin and muscle than a dog with a smaller, weaker jaw.

If I wanted to introduce my DD to dogs safely I’d introduce her to a registered PAT dog or a less powerful breed (but still with a harness just in case).

@TheMILinatorReturns
The post you're referring to was before, OP had her dog offlead and out of control. Lady told her to get it on a lead and moved her dog to the side to let OP and her dog pass. But then said that she doesn't trust staffies which is what pissed OP off. OP should have brushed it off and explained he's friendly but we didn't see you, sorry. And should have put her dog on a lead when she saw the dog up ahead, but not many dog owners do this. But the problem wasnt OPs dog, it was OPs attitude, and that her, and many other dog owners let their dogs run wild at parks.

The reason dog breed judgement is such an emotional matter is that innocent dogs are mistreated, labelled and killed because of how they look. And other dogs, who are aggressive, are allowed to behave appallingly because of how they look. Dogs, like people, should be judged on their behaviour, not their appearance.
My dogs a rottie, my mums is a corgi. You can feed my dog the tiniest bit of cheese between your fingers, you have to drop food as you give it to my mums because she'll take your fingers off.

People need to keep their dogs under control outside, I will scream that from the rooftops more than anyone. Not just owners of large breed dogs, all dogs should be under control at all times. But you cant teach your child to fear something that will most likely never harm them, and that is impossible to avoid. And you cant judge dogs based on their breed, judge them on their owners and their behaviour.

I'm back! The point was I asked for my child not to be put in a situation with an unknown dog whilst he was in the care of someone else. That person decided they knew better and to go against my request. So there should have been no risk of any dog snapping growling or otherwise at my son. I don't think I'm bonkers not to want an unknown animal near my son when he is at an age where he isn't great with animals, even on farm visits I have to really be cautious as he can be so loud can startle animals which would the cause them to nip him. What's wrong with trying to avoid an accident waiting to happen hmm

Everyone understands your point and you are absolutely right to be unsure of unknown dogs around your child. However....

Your MIL kept your child safe. DS was:

1. on opposite side of the room (ie. couldn’t provoke an attack)
2. had two adults in the room the whole time to protect him & keep them separate.

Your MIL was honest. She hasn’t lied and kept the dog away from your child.

You are projecting your own anxiety which is manifesting in controlling behaviour. Do you honestly believe your MIL thinks so little of your child that she would put him in harms way?

Why do people think it is a privilege for a grandparent to be allowed to look after their DGCs. If I ever look after mine, it is as a favour to their parents.

Your child, your rules. For what it's worth I agree with you OP. Only you know whether your MIL can be trusted but if you doubt it even 1% then you have to prioritise your child. If my MIL had let an unleashed Staffie in the same house as my children she wouldn't be seeing them unsupervised. It's her house, she should have asked the relative to remove the dog. I think she's pushing you, and if she does it once she'll do it again.

@notquiteruralbliss

Because of all the threads on here from grandmothers wailing and gnashing their teeth that their evil DIL "never lets me see my grandchildren", and all the threads about grandmothers demanding overnights with newborn babies before they're even born.

I don't think I'm bonkers not to want an unknown animal near my son when he is at an age where he isn't great with animals

I’m with you on this. Animals are unpredictable. The dog should (at the very least) have been on a harness and leash and kept away from your baby.
When my DD was a baby I used to get so cross with people who let their dogs put their head in her pram or let them come close enough to lick and sniff her!

Your MIL kept your child safe. DS was: 1) on opposite side of the room (ie. couldn’t provoke an attack) 2) had two adults in the room the whole time to protect him & keep them separate

A child can accidentally provoke an attack from across the room by squealing, crying or moving unexpected. Also the dog ran into the house (so not under control). OP didn’t know the dog’s history or if it could be triggered.

And yes there were 2 adults but there’s no guarantee they could have prevented/stopped an attack before significant damage was done. Bull breeds don’t always give a warning before an attack eg they don’t always growl or show signs of aggression, it can be a silent sudden launch. Bull breeds like SBT have a very strong powerful jaw, tend to shake their prey when they bite and often won’t let go. Unless you have a break-stick it’s very hard to prise open the jaws of a bull breed who doesn’t want to release!

I know some SBTs are great with kids but the decision to introduce them should have been OP’s, not the grandma’s (or the dog’s owner, as it sounds like she just let her dog come into the house without the grandma even agreeing!)

YANBU.

Dogs - some breeds anyway -are unpredictable and prone to violent outbursts. The evidence you have cited proves that.
There is no way I would let my small child in a room with an unfamiliar dog.

These threads always go the same way - even in the face of masses of evidence and case histories the dog defenders blather on about how dogs are wonderful and 'would never hurt anyone'. Tell that to the parents of the dead babies and children.

Many people dislike dogs/are allergic to them/have had a bad experience with them. So be it. Do not take it upon yourself to force your dog onto someone who doesn't want it. Do not let your dog jump up on someone/slobber their foul spit on them - it's disgusting. Respect other people's boundaries and stop treating your animal like it's some sort of entitled prince.

BoomAndLifeIsFucked

Well no. The dog ‘ran in’. So could easily have run in to where the child was playing on the floor and been startled by him.

And RTFT. The child has since told the OP that he was striking the dog.

The MIL clearly gave a minimised, fudged version of what happened.

I agree that you overreacted massively, sorry. It was unplanned and it sounds as if your MIL handled it very well.

I see that I’ve missed the detail that your DS was encouraged to stroke the dog. That makes your reaction more understandable.

@Mittens030869

I agree that you overreacted massively, sorry. It was unplanned and it sounds as if your MIL handled it very well.

You clearly haven't RTFT nor listened to anyone 🙄 nor read OP's comments

It's people like PP here that give MN a bad rep

Ignore idiots like this OP, it's easy for them to type but apparently too tough for them to read and think. 🙄🙄