AIBU to not let DS stayover at MILs after this -dog concerns

[TheMILinatorReturns]

Name changed Sorry Long rant...
Half term, MIL kindly agreed to look after 3YO DS...all going well, photos of fun activities etc and grateful of the help. Then I get a phone call to say she's confessing she has allowed a relative to bring her staffordshire bull terrier into the house with DS present which is something DH told her specifically not to do. I'm guessing she had to 'confess' because DS would have told me anyway...

I'm pretty livid because I don't trust dogs, especially the big ones around my small child and particularly ones I have never met myself. I know I will get flamed for this by diehard dog lovers but to me dogs are animals and can easily flip when under stress, small children and dogs together are (IMHO) an unpredictable mix and an unnecessary risk I wanted to avoid with our child. Also she has not respected my wishes by allowing this (she has past form for this).

Another point is this particular breed doesn't have a great reputation, they are powerful muscular dogs and there are a lot of children according to news channels who have been killed or left with life changing injuries in this country alone. I have actually had a bad experience with one myself when I had to do a home visit and was knocked to the ground and had it not been wearing a muzzle I am not sure what would have happened but that's another story.

Granted I am sure the majority of these dogs are lovely pets and great around kids but.... I was not comfortable with this and DH communicated it to MIL, I never thought she would go ahead anyway. She has apologised says it was an 'accident' she 'thought it was a delivery' and the dog just came running in. This says to me it was out of control for one, surely it should have been on a lead on the street outside...? She says she held DS on her lap whilst the relative sat across the room with the dog and it was 'only five minutes' and the relative had come with a present for DS (his birthday soon). I suppose it is good she has admitted it and apologised but to be honest I think she is trying to minimise it and I don't know why she didn't just say 'please will you take the dog away whilst my grandson is here'. She could even have blamed it on me and said my crazy DIL wont let me have dogs in the house whilst I have my grandson here, I wouldn't have cared. To me she has prioritised the relatives feelings over my sons safety. This is really difficult for me because on the one hand I feel everyone will think I am overreacting but on the other had something gone wrong and the dog got jealous (it often stays with MIL apparently) and bitten DS... it just doesn't bear thinking about. Trying to put this into perspective as nothing actually happened (and I will probably be accused of PFBS) but the fact is she knew our wishes, WHY then allow this to happen, I just don't get it? It was the only rule we lay down, didn't even say don't feed him up with sweets and chocolate (which she always does) because we realise this is a grandparent thing. Part of me wonders if she is trying to push my buttons on purpose as she has been difficult over other issues in the past (she can be quite overbearing and manipulative - I never thought spiteful though). She called me up on video call to 'confess' and I wonder if she wanted to witness my reaction. I really want DS to see his grandparents but I am going to sit worrying about this bloody dog being near him now if I send him back there to stayover and that I cannot trust MIL to do as we have asked. AIBU to tell MIL she can see DS but only at our house or at hers when we are there and no more staying over? DH will support this. However I don't want to be accused by SIL and other family members of keeping MIL away from DS...what to do?!

@MrsJunglelow

It's not just about height but build/weight/jaw strength. Staffies if violent can inflict more damage more easily than Scotties. Although to be fair I may not be thinking of a Scottie dog (my dog breed knowledge largely comes from Lady and the Tramp!) - I'm thinking those little yappie ankle-height creatures.

@bluebluezoo

Totally different in that OP needs and wants a cooker, she doesn't need or want a dog. If dog owners respected that they have chosen to take the risk of having a dog but others haven't, and therefore kept their dog away from other people, then the OP and her son could avoid all dogs. It's only because dog owners are inconsiderate and foist their life choice on others that this is even an issue.

If I decided to keep a boa constrictor I think people would be a bit vexed if I let it slither up to them in the park or brought it into their homes, no matter how friendly and cute I thought it was.

I’ve sadly seen two dachshunds kill an adult muntjac deer in the space of two minutes. Bit at its underbelly and literally tore its bowels out. Absolutely horrific to witness. They are my neighbour’s dogs, they live inside, sleep on the sofa and beds etc. Proper pet dogs - not working farm dogs. Cute dogs that are on tea towels and mugs everywhere.

You’re being very naive or playing ignorant to not know why staffie attacks/incidents are reported so readily in the media. Unfortunately they’ve become a symbol of class, people largely associate them with ‘chav’ culture and middle class readers love to sigh with sadness at the bad dog breed decisions thick poor people make. That’s how the press sell papers. Polly, the photogenic golden retriever, biting a 3 year old’s hand and causing him to need stitches will not attract the excitement and horror of a staffie off lead and chasing children round a park and nipping at their heels. The headline would be ‘out of control devil dog in every parent’s worst nightmare’.

If she had invited the dog over on purpose I would say you have a point but as she didn't, sorry but no.

There's a lot of oddly entitled comments on this post about her "not following the rules laid out by parents" and needing to grovel. More so by PPs than by OP herself, but childcare is and always will be a favour.

If she is being genuine about them just showing up and the dog going straight in (which doesn't imply the dog was wildly out of control btw) then she has potentially just chosen not to create an awkward situation in her own life and social circle, due to your extra demands on top of the favour of watching your son, essentially. Many of the "dog people" I know who are used to bringing their dog along with them everywhere they go would be somewhat affronted if someone that has always been fine with it suddenly said no. It would be really left field for them given their established relationship with that person. Many of them simply wouldn't consider tying them up outside. This relative might not be one of those people, but they may well be and MIL may have felt she was in an awkward position. She was thinking on her feet and decided to just hold onto your son for five minutes rather than make an uncomfortable situation for herself. YABU for being so hardlined about it.

I say this as someone who isn't a dog lover and does get nervous with dogs around my DD btw.

You don’t have to have a fear of dogs to make this rule 🙄 That’s irrelevant. This isn’t a thread about dog lovers v. Haters. The parents made an assessment and a request - and it was blatantly ignored. Too many people are ignoring the fact the OP’s DH is fully on board with this request too. So it’s not some random unnecessary thing the OP has said because of unreasonable anxiety.

You are not being irrational to be scared of dogs OP and (as a dog owner) I am also wary about other people’s dogs around my children.

When my children were much younger, my sister had a staffie who was a really sweet old thing. He never bit anyone, he never really barked and liked to be left alone. Even though he was a “trusted” dog, my children were still never left in the same room unattended. The children were taught to leave him alone when there and if my sister had to leave the room (toilet, cup of tea etc) she took the dog with her.

I never entirely trusted the dog but I did trust my sister to keep the children safe.

Your MIL kept your DS on the opposite side of the room to the dog, with two adults ready to step in should the need arise. Do you honestly think your child was put in harms way?

I know you said the dog barrelled in the front door as she opened it but that really was the owners fault rather than your MIL. I have an excited young dog that would do the same thing given half a chance.

Your MIL was being polite to her guest, who had made a kind gesture towards your son. She also took charge if the situation and kept him safe. Please don’t let your anxiety rub off on your child and cause a rift between you & your MIL.

I think you need to get over your phobia and not pass it on to your son or any other you may have. Your fear will rub off on your child and any future dog you may meet. I have things I fear but I made damn sure I didn't pass them on to my children. I didn't want to limit their lives and any fulfilling experience they may have. It behoves us as parents to bring up well rounded individuals who have an enquiring mind and a willingness to learn and love.

@RainingBatsAndFrogs

*you do realise that dogs are predatory animals right...? That they hunt in packs and bring down animals larger than themselves..? Most dogs exhibit predatory interest to some degree. Chasing a ball is predatory behaviour! Why do think dogs like to chase so much*

Er yes, MrsJungelow that is EXACTLY the reason that the OP is not happy about an unknown dog dashing into a house where it could happen upon a 3 year old I does not know running around in the front room.

Before the MIL (allegedly) sits with the 3 year old on her lap.

I am guessing that DH knows the relative and the dog in question as he specifically asked MIL not to have the dog round. I bet he doesn’t trust the owner (his sister?) and with good reason since the dog ran in out of control.

The owner of the dog was irresponsible to allow it to run in to a house where a young child could be in the floor eating a snack, rolling around etc.

I don’t believe the ‘only 5 minutes’ or that the child spent the whole visit I get lap.

YANBU OP. But I would get your DH to say that it must never ever happen again or the child will not be allowed at her house alone again. Don’t just swallow the minimised version and brush it off.

Yes I don't really want my 3 year old to become a predator dog's 'prey'. I thought we were supposed to have moved on to be top of the food chain since cavewoman times.. I guess it kinda boils down to how well domesticated a dog actually is... I can't tell that with a dog I've never met. It seems some dogs are so well domesticated that their owners liken them to a human and this in my mind is more dangerous because it breeds complacency.IMHO you cannot expect a dog to make decisions in the same way as a human. I.e that's a person I must not bite them even if I am stressed, that child is making a noise but it is not a threat to me as children do that, that child is not a toy/prey to be chewed or chased. Or are people adamant they can 100 percent trust their dog to make those right and wrong distinctions all of the time, even when excited or stressed? DH doesn't know the dog either, he asked him to tell MIL because we discussed it and I said I was concerned, I thought it would be better (and she would be more likely to listen) with it coming from him. Wrong! I don't believe the dog ran in to be honest I reckon she let the owner in with it and didn't want to admit it I think she panicked because she realised DS would probably mention it. But I will never know the truth because I wasn't there so all I have is what she told me. Just easier to avoid in future. As others have said, I don't know why she didn't ask the relative to put the dog in the garden either she has a secure garden. Clearly she prioritised the dog and the relative over my wishes and in my opinion my son's safety. That's what bothers me really, that I get completely ignored with what I see as a safety request as my DS safety is really important to me. As another poster said, what's next...not doing up his car seat because they didn't have car seats in her day and they were fine? I remember having a bit of bust up when ds was born as she clearly thought it was nonsense that babies are recommended to sleep on their backs these days to avoid SIDs because 'her two kids born in the 80s were fine sleeping on their fronts". Sorry but even if you are certain you know better as a grandparent than your DIL stop being so arrogant, it is their kid they are the parent not you and you should damn well respect their wishes. You can make well meaning suggestions of course but your DIL doesn't have to do them just because you said them. I'll get off my high horse now!

I get your concerns OP. I can understand your not wanting “unknown” dogs of certain breeds (which if they did turn, their ability to hurt your child is very great - compared to day a dachshund or Yorkshire terrier)

However, this didn’t happen in your home. Do YABU for dictating to your MIL what she does in her home. Perhaps suggest she watches your DC in your home. Of you don’t have her watch your DC

I’m a dog owner. I don’t bring my dogs to a person’s home unless I’m invited to do so. Most people are the same. It’s likely your MIL either invited this person with their dog or is a usual visitor with the dog. In either event, it is your MIL home and her visitors. Not up to you to say who can/cannot visit her home.

So how far are you going to take this hysteria OP?

Not allow your child to have friends who have dogs or only allow those friends to play at your house and not the other way around? He’ll lose friends pretty quickly that way.

Never go to any family’s house ever which has a dog?

Person comes into school with an assistance dog e.g. guide dog to talk to the class, will you keep him off school that day?

Your blanket no dogs ever rule is going to make him grow up to believe that dogs are something to be feared at all costs, and that’s just not how it is.

Individual dogs have their own temperaments, and individual dog owners are responsible for those dogs’ behaviours.

And one day your now lovely ds might grow up and want a dog of his own and shock horror may want children as well. Will you think him an irresponsible parent?

FWIW more people are bitten by golden retrievers in this country than any other dog, but those don’t make the news because it’s only newsworthy when someone dies isn’t it....?

compared to say a dachshund or Yorkshire terrier)
A Dachshund you say?
One of the top breeds for biting children according to the statistics.

Sorry but even if you are certain you know better as a grandparent than your DIL stop being so arrogant, it is their kid they are the parent not you and you should damn well respect their wishes. You can make well meaning suggestions of course but your DIL doesn't have to do them just because you said them

There is a certain irony to that last sentence, OP. I completely understand you have a wider issue with MIL undermining your views as parent, but you have to understand that there's only so far this can apply when it is in her household and she is doing you a favour. You can lay out the child's usual routine and what you would like them to avoid, for sure, but you can't expect them to inconvenience themselves and be rude to their other guests to obey your rules to the dot, unless there is a pressing and clear threat (like for example if the child was severely allergic to dogs). She may not have the kind of relationship with the other guest where it wouldn't be an issue to ask them to leave their dog outside, this may be something they would never do, and she is not obliged to be rude and offend them for your sake. Holding the child away from the dog for the brief visit was a reasonable compromise that DID respect your wishes as much as could be done without putting her out.

If you are going to accept free childcare from someone, you need to respect that there will be some compromise if what you want does not fit in with their way of life.

Yes I don't really want my 3 year old to become a predator dog's 'prey'
Dog aggression towards people is pretty much never ‘prey aggression’.

Dogs are not stupid.
They recognise 3 year olds as human.

There have been a few, incredibly rare cases where dogs have mistaken newborn babies as prey.

But when dogs injure children it’s almost always fear related - either they weren’t socialised with kids and are scared of them or, as is regularly the case with family dogs, children have been allowed to jump all over them, chase them, pull them, climb on them etc and the dog snaps. Literally.

I do agree that your MIL shouldn’t have let the dog in and I agree it’s sensible to be cautious around dogs you don’t know well but your posts don’t show sensible wariness, they are hysterical and full of myths and misinformation, 3 year olds as prey being a prime example, I agree with other posters, you need to get a grip on your fears before you pass it on to your child.

When my DS was small we lived next door to a couple with two staffies. I’m not keen on dogs and was concerned about this breed but everyone assured me it that it was bad owners who caused aggressive dogs and if these dogs had never been mistreated and were well trained there would be no issues. The dogs were well loved and very obedient so I put my worries to one side. One day the dogs were in the garden when another neighbour’s dog came round the corner and in a flash both staffies were over the fence and attacking the other dog. All three owners were right there and tried to get the dogs off but the staffies jaws were too strong for them to release. I still shudder when I think of how I allowed my son to play near them so that it didn’t look like I had an irrational fear or was causing DS to develop a phobia.

That said, I would forgive MIL this time as I’m sure she knows she did wrong by not following your wishes but ask her to have a plan ready incase she gets caught out again ie. insist the dog stays outside.

In either event, it is your MIL home and her visitors. Not up to you to say who can/cannot visit her home

True. So the MIL either needs to be clear about that and when asked to observe ‘no dog’ needs to say she cannot / will not comply.... so that the OP and her DH can make a choice. And the logical conclusion there, is that they may well choose not to send the child unaccompanied.

I am not a dog owner but I like dogs but would never allow a small child to be subject to a dog that doesn’t know the child to run in not under the control of the owner. And more than one dog expert has said the same.

Hmm... look what I've just found today on Apple News (I don't usually read The Sun 😋) but it just goes to show - incidentally, if you read far enough down the article, it quotes over 4000 hospitalised dog attacks in NZ over a 10 year period, most of which were children under 10 years old in the home

apple.news/A11Xs1NUMQGWtcRPaRowXLA

I think you need to work on your fear of dogs. Dogs that are trained and are under the control of their owner, not left alone with small kids are not a risk. There are tragedies but there's always a back story to them. I would never leave my dog with a child alone, but he's no risk to them (just liable to steal socks off babies to lick feet)

Staffies are generally good with kids and are often nicknamed ''nanny dogs''. They#re usually easy going and good natured. People often mix them up with pitbulls.

I'm a dog owner (collie) but while she's good with children, I will not leave her unsupervised with them, particularly young children who are too small to understand not to pull her tail etc. I'm often approached by parents asking if their child can pet her, which I'm happy to do, as long as she's on her lead so I'm in control, and the parents are also in control. Even the most easy going dog in the world can turn.

I think you're both unreasonable and reasonable. I think dogs and small children should be closely supervised, but I also think that with rules on both sides they can get on and it would be unfair for your child to inherit your fear.

My dog's so good with kids she has a fan club of them up the park. She loves chasing bubbles which amuses kids, and when we're up there, there's an army of kids saying ''Can I play with Maggie?'' I'm thinking of packing in my job and starting Maggie's Playgroup, where me and Maggie will entertain your child while you go for a jog or play tennis.

A Dachshund you say?
One of the top breeds for biting children according to the statistics.

But not for killing or mutilating them.

From what you've said,(" it ran in") it wasnt on a lead. And I assume no lead inside either .I wouldn't be happy with that unless I personally knew the dog concerned & it's personality & history. I know my friends dogs ,who are all soppy & placid with kids etc. Being on Grannys lap is no protection: an elderly woman isn't going to have the strength to deter it if any dog goes for her or your child. I'm all for children learning how to appreciate animals but the fact she's repeatedly ignoring stuff makes me think your DH needs a word & if he refuses ,make any contact elsewhere or only if you are there.

YANBU at all but I see the dog-obsessed people are out in force on this thread.

Indeed. I'm fond of dogs and cats but the anthropomorphising and over-sentimentality about them on this forum - even if to the detriment of actual people - is pretty bewildering. Dogs are not more important than children.

SBTs might not be big dogs but they have extremely powerful jaws and can inflict a high degree of damage in a very short amount of time. Plus although they are often placid, friendly dogs, if they do turn nasty the switch is instant and often completely unprovoked. If anyone allowed one near my child, particularly when I'd expressly asked them not to, I'd seek alternative care and would not have them in that person's company unsupervised.

Same goes for daschunds, as mentioned upthread. They are cute, tiny dogs, faithful companions and I have a real fondness for them, but they are not playful dogs and are known not to be at all good around children. Therefore, I wouldn't allow my child to share a room with one. It should be added, that although the child would always be my first consideration, this is just as much for the benefit of the dog.

@custardbear

Jesus Christ that's horrific. Why on EARTH would someone expose a newborn to a rottweiler

@custardbear or it could cost the OP and her husband dearly. We all know that parents like to have a bit of a support and time away from the kids, but if the grandmother doesn't live up their extremely high standards, she can get on with her own life and lets hope the OP's parents are more obedient

@custardbear

Hmm... look what I've just found today on Apple News (I don't usually read The Sun 😋) but it just goes to show - incidentally, if you read far enough down the article, it quotes over 4000 hospitalised dog attacks in NZ over a 10 year period, most of which were children under 10 years old in the home

apple.news/A11Xs1NUMQGWtcRPaRowXLA

That's horrific CustardBear, exactly what I would want to avoid. She should not have left that dog alone with the child she could have taken the child with her when she went to the toilet. Now she will live with the images of her child dying in her arms for the rest of her life. Just awful and unthinkable, I could not live with myself if I let something like that happen to my ds. Wonder what happend to her pet dog. Would she even want to keep it after it had killed her child. It clearly wasn't the dogs fault, the dog was doing what dogs do and didn't know any better..