AIBU to not let DS stayover at MILs after this -dog concerns

[TheMILinatorReturns]

Name changed Sorry Long rant...
Half term, MIL kindly agreed to look after 3YO DS...all going well, photos of fun activities etc and grateful of the help. Then I get a phone call to say she's confessing she has allowed a relative to bring her staffordshire bull terrier into the house with DS present which is something DH told her specifically not to do. I'm guessing she had to 'confess' because DS would have told me anyway...

I'm pretty livid because I don't trust dogs, especially the big ones around my small child and particularly ones I have never met myself. I know I will get flamed for this by diehard dog lovers but to me dogs are animals and can easily flip when under stress, small children and dogs together are (IMHO) an unpredictable mix and an unnecessary risk I wanted to avoid with our child. Also she has not respected my wishes by allowing this (she has past form for this).

Another point is this particular breed doesn't have a great reputation, they are powerful muscular dogs and there are a lot of children according to news channels who have been killed or left with life changing injuries in this country alone. I have actually had a bad experience with one myself when I had to do a home visit and was knocked to the ground and had it not been wearing a muzzle I am not sure what would have happened but that's another story.

Granted I am sure the majority of these dogs are lovely pets and great around kids but.... I was not comfortable with this and DH communicated it to MIL, I never thought she would go ahead anyway. She has apologised says it was an 'accident' she 'thought it was a delivery' and the dog just came running in. This says to me it was out of control for one, surely it should have been on a lead on the street outside...? She says she held DS on her lap whilst the relative sat across the room with the dog and it was 'only five minutes' and the relative had come with a present for DS (his birthday soon). I suppose it is good she has admitted it and apologised but to be honest I think she is trying to minimise it and I don't know why she didn't just say 'please will you take the dog away whilst my grandson is here'. She could even have blamed it on me and said my crazy DIL wont let me have dogs in the house whilst I have my grandson here, I wouldn't have cared. To me she has prioritised the relatives feelings over my sons safety. This is really difficult for me because on the one hand I feel everyone will think I am overreacting but on the other had something gone wrong and the dog got jealous (it often stays with MIL apparently) and bitten DS... it just doesn't bear thinking about. Trying to put this into perspective as nothing actually happened (and I will probably be accused of PFBS) but the fact is she knew our wishes, WHY then allow this to happen, I just don't get it? It was the only rule we lay down, didn't even say don't feed him up with sweets and chocolate (which she always does) because we realise this is a grandparent thing. Part of me wonders if she is trying to push my buttons on purpose as she has been difficult over other issues in the past (she can be quite overbearing and manipulative - I never thought spiteful though). She called me up on video call to 'confess' and I wonder if she wanted to witness my reaction. I really want DS to see his grandparents but I am going to sit worrying about this bloody dog being near him now if I send him back there to stayover and that I cannot trust MIL to do as we have asked. AIBU to tell MIL she can see DS but only at our house or at hers when we are there and no more staying over? DH will support this. However I don't want to be accused by SIL and other family members of keeping MIL away from DS...what to do?!

As a Staffie owner I'd never let her near kids when the parents hadn't played it with me and my Staff is soft as anything.
I appreciate the worry with bull breeds and don't let her go shuffling up to strangers whatever their age as dogs and bull breeds especially are not everyone's cup of tea. I would not like an unknown or random dog round DD in a confined space and DD is very good re. Asking before stroking other peoples' dogs. YANBU.

I don't trust dogs around children either, but it does sound like the situation here was controlled. Most staffies make good family pets, but no dogs, especially outside of the household, can be trusted with children without adult supervision.

If you think she told you to your face to see your reaction there's other issues going on.

You specifically said no. She did it anyway. That would be enough for me, trust gone.

I wouldn't allow an off lead staffie in the room with a young child. I'm a dog owner and I've seen a staffie I knew well suddenly and with no warning turn on a small dog it knew well and had played with lots of times and always got on well with. The dog thankfully was wearing a coat because the staffie's jaws are large enough and powerful enough to do very serious damage in seconds: they went right round the small dog's rib cage. This is the issue. Not that the individual dog isn't lovely, but that it's a breed where if the dog makes a mistake, and dogs do, the consequences can be terrible, for child and for dog. Really not worth it.

@Todaywewilldobetter

Enormous over reaction. Sorry. It was a visiting dog. She didnt chuck him in with crocodiles.

Unfortunately the OP is being stereotypical and likening the breed to crocodiles!

YANBU. Your MIL went against your express wishes, so you can't trust her. If anything were to happen how could you live with the consequences? You know she won't do as asked, you know she will allow this dog around your child.

My mother had a very unpredictable border collie, that could snap. It went for my face one day, but that was apparently my fault because I looked at the dog! from then on I insisted the dog was shut in another room when we were there. Every time, EVERY TIME, after a while she would ask if she could bring the dog in. I would say no, it's not safe, and my mother would whine that the dog was fine, wouldn't do anything. It drove a huge wedge between us and I stopped taking the children around there, a situation that continued for years, until the dog died. Some people have no sense.

AIBU to tell MIL she can see DS but only at our house or at hers when we are there and no more staying over? DH will support this

YANBU. Your DH and you specifically made this one request and she ignored it. It doesn’t matter how low the risk is, you and your DH make the parenting decisions not her. IMO she’s abused your trust. It sounds like she couldn’t be arsed to tell the visitor not to bring their dog in. That’s how much she thinks about you and your DH’s wishes.

I’ve owned a Staffie and she was lovely, but you’re being perfectly reasonable in what you asked. Dogs can be unpredictable around children and the fact the dog was supervised is utterly irrelevant. A bite can happen in seconds. This dog wasn’t even on a lead (he ran into the house).

As a dog owner I do understand where you are coming from to an extent. My dog is not used to small children so I would never allow her anywhere they are, your mil should have asked that the dog stay in the garden

However I think you also need to overcome your issue with dogs. My sil is not good with dogs, her daughter was really bad, but has slowly got better as we all have dogs, it’s not fair on your child who needs to understand how to trust animals

You're over reacting.

MIL did not do this to annoy you or push your buttons. We've all had family visitors turn up unannounced at the wrong time .

Your MIL did her best in awkward circumstances by keeping DS perfectly safe on her lap. He was not at risk. not in danger, nothing happened . She then told you exactly what had happened so that if DS mentioned dog you had no need to panic.

          You really have to get used to the idea that   when  Grandparents   are in their own home minding the GC's, sometimes something unplanned   will crop up, which  they have to deal with on the spot. They've had  decades of experience and practise  with their own children,  of  reacting  to some unexpected event in a sensible way. That's  just what yout MIL did.

She was completely out of order going against your wishes like that and I would lose all trust in her as well. I think for me she would have to earn back my trust slowly. I agree about toddlers and dogs generally but that specific situation wouldn't bother me, it does sound like she was careful. But the total disrespect of the one thing you asked her to do would worry me

This is not an over reaction. I would not want my children anywhere near a dog of that breed. You have to be able to trust a person you leave your child with. Your MiL allowed your child to be exposed to a danger you had told her you find unacceptable. It takes a split second for a dog to attack a child and it would be very hard for an owner to get such s strong a dog off. Those dogs should always be muzzled when out. I would definitely not allow my child to go to mil house in accompanied again. I would let her take child out to zoo for day etc.

Wow lots of responses thankyou. Try to reply to as many as possible:

@MootingMirror not irrational fear - for context I was knocked to the floor and pinned down and winded by a staffie on a planned visit whilst it's delightful owner laughed. We tend to learn by experience, that was my experience. How is this hurting my child, I am trying to protect him from harm?

@Todaywewilldobetter No I am not suggesting a staffie is a crocodile (although since you draw that parallel both have large teeth and can kill an adult human) but any animal can be unpredicatble. Would you trust a dog 100% off lead with a child it didnt know in someone else's house?

@Hercwasonaroll It was not undercontrol surely if it just ran straight into the house as cannot have been on a lead?

@StayCloseSpooky yes that is the main issue, we specifically said we didn't want an unknown dog round with our child when we werent there

@Leaannb she has form for doing ignoring our wishes with trivial things which I have let slide because they are trivial and not worth causing a fuss over but never thought she would go against our wishes on something which was a safety concern for us.

@vodkaredbullgirl 5 minutes, 10 minutes or 20 minutes doenst matter the time frame...point is we didnt want it near our son at all.

@rosie1959 I know most staffies dont eat children but I felt a rescue dog that lives in an adult only household being in a strange house with a lively noisy toddler it doesnt know is not a great idea surely? Animals can behave unpredicably in situations that are unfamiliar to them or when they feel threatened or jealous.

@Jollypostman1991 what is 'basic dog language and behaviour' should this be taught in schools for everyones safety then? Or should you be able to chose to avoid them if you dont like them? clearly hit a nerve with mentioning the breed it's a sensitive subject for many and probably a distraction from my main point. But the fact is there is a lot of bad press surrounding them, google it. Surely no smoke without fire there? They are a big dog, if a big dog gets aggressive it can cause a lot of damage to a small child. I wouldnt want my child near a person I knew to be aggresive either frankly.

@Sunnydaysstillhere I am not dictating to MIL who she has in her home, I just dont want a large unfamiliar dog near my son in a confined space in the few days she is looking after him. Is that really unreasonable to ask?

@WitchesSpelleas I dont know the dog so cannot comment on if it is dangerous or not. I'd rather not have a dog I've never met near my kid frankly, especially a big one.

@SpeccyLime hope you are right and it was a one off and I dont need to worry but I cant help feel my wishes were disregarded a bit and that has affected my trust.

@FamBae I am well aware any dog can bite. But there are some dogs that are bigger and can do a lot more damage in a short space of time and be difficult to restrain. And some that are known to struggle with unpredictable situations.

@Onthetrain75 yes mentioning the breed distracted from the issue oops but just the facts. I thought they were bred originally as fighting dogs tbh so perhaps it is relavant if they have a deep instict to defend or a strong prey drive.

@AyeAyeShipAhoy yes I am sure you are right but I havent heard of many kids killed by labradors but seems loads by the bull terrier breeds according to news. Any dog breed can attack I guess if provoked, I'm concerned that from what I have read the staffies, rotweilers and similar breeds can turn without any warning. There are cases in this country I have read where owners have been killed when they had a seizure and the dog freaked out and attacked them when they were helpless to defend themselves. Sorry but the ones I read were staffies.

@HomeSliceKnowsBest you sound like a really sensible savvy dog owner.

@MichelleofzeResistance exactly what I am afraid of...a large dog can do a lot more damage a lot more quickly which could be catastrophic for a child.

As someone who works with dogs I would not consider a childminder who has a pet dog on the grounds that a lot of people are not good at reading dogs and are usually not aware of when a dog is not happy with a child nearby. I don’t think your BU, perhaps say to your MIL thank you for letting me know but I would appreciate in the future that your friend does not visit with their pet dog. You’ve made it clear a second time and you’re giving your MIL another chance. If she has the dog round again I would then say you would not want your child round hers as that is clearly going against your wishes. Dogs are unpredictable and I would never put my child at risk, the majority of dog bites with children happen with a dog that is known to the family. This shows how unhappy these dogs are but a lot of people would think the dogs are fine.

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all.
She knew that she was going against your wishes.
There was no reason for the child and dog to be in the same room, why didn't she ask the owner to put dog in an another room for 5 mins? She wouldn't have even needed to be the "bad guy" just say that you and DH didn't want dogs around the child.

Not an overreaction. You had one safety rule and she broke it. One rule, and she couldn’t do it.

I’d tell her how seriously upset you are, that your first instinct is to never let him stay again, but that you’ll give her one more chance and if the rule is ever broken again that’ll be the last time she ever has DS. Let her realise how serious you are.

I’m a dog lover but small children mixing with unfamiliar dogs (especially those with the ability to do damage if they were of a mind to) is never a sensible idea.

Sorry OP , I think you're allowing your own experiences and fear to rule.

But MIL not respecting your wishes is another thing entirely.

YABU to not want dogs near your child, you'll just pass on a ridiculous phobia. You are very unreasonable to judge this particular dog for its breed especially when it's a bloody staffy, they're known as nanny dogs because they're typically amazing with kids. You have had no bad experiences with this individual so you are being ridiculous.
You would be very unreasonable to not let her see him over this, you need to get over your phobia of dogs. I'm usually on the mothers side with grandparents sticking to parents rules but its not like she's fed him something he's allergic to. It's a stupid rule to try fo enforce.

On the face of it,it seems an overreaction. Uninvited guest showed up, stayed 5 mins during which time she kept your ds on her knee. She knew your concerns and immediately told you.

However you say you think she was pushing your buttons on purpose. Who is the relative? They must have known your ds was there to bring a gift so I guess it's a question of whether you think this was pre planned or can give her the benefit of the doubt.

Either way, your dh should be the one who communicates any decision on visiting in future.

Staffies are actually known as the nanny dog and are one of three breeds specifically recommended by The Kennel Club to be good with children. They aren't great with other dogs, but they are great with kids

It goes without saying that no small child should be left alone unsupervised with a dog though.

You can’t call them animals and then apply human emotions to them such as jealousy, it’s daft.

Stafford are known as the nanny dog, not as killers. Unless you read the Daily Fail obvs ...

Realistically it’s your DS, if you want to pass on your dog (animal?) phobia then crack on, ask your MiL over to yours to see DS so you don’t have to worry?

Yes, I do think basic dog language and behaviour should be taught in schools. The same as I think water safety and swimming should be taught in schools. Fear and avoidance aren’t good tools to deal with dogs, the same as it wouldn’t be a good way to teach a child about safety around water. Much better to teach respect, calm behaviour and signs they can look out for to indicate they might be in danger.

I don’t own a staffie, I’ve always had cocker spaniels and dachshunds. No sooner would I trust one of those breeds with a child than a staffie. Dogs are animals, but teaching a child that certain breeds are inherently more dangerous is problematic. Yes, they’d cause more damage, but get your child to the point that they know how to safely interact with a dog (not approaching without owner’s permission, holding hand out to be sniffed first, not rolling around on the floor with a dog, looking for licking of lips/yawning as signs of stress etc) and you can avoid any damage in the first place.

You placed ds in your MIL's care. When you do that, you agree to trust her judgement. Someone with a dog visited, and she kept ds safe during the visit. It is unreasonable to think that ds was in danger because he was in the same room as a dog. Ask MIL what steps she took to make the situation safe. If you don't trust her, don't leave ds alone with her, obviously. Personally, I don't think that the fact she let a dog + owner visit makes her a danger to your child.

I am not a fan of dogs myself and tried to relax at a family gathering where a family member brought a small dog with them. I said to my husband I wasn't happy, but we let it go. The bloody dog ended up biting one of my kids. I know of another family member's badly behaved dog and I have said that it mustn't be around my children if I am not there. This is a large bull terrier who has form for being very protective.

I think you are massively overreacting, but not because of the children and dog thing, that's an interaction that always requires supervision....bbuuuttt I do think you're giving your MIL a hard time considering the position she was put in. The dog running in was not her fault and once inside it sounds as if she worked hard to ensure your son could have an interaction with a dog, which is useful to learn, in a safe manner.

This one incident should not mean she can no longer look after your son at her house again.

@DartmoorDoughnut

Is that true about dogs and jealousy? My Havanese makes a big show of attitude when I'm cuddling my guinea pig! She walks up sniffs him loudly, refuses to lie down with us and gives us side-eye over her shoulder from another sofa. I just assumed she was annoyed because she's normally draped over me if I'm sitting down. Wouldn't it be reasonable for a dog to feel usurped in position or jealous? I'm not a dog expert...

Wrt thread: A family dog that has grown up with children is a different kettle of fish to a strange dog/ child situation. I wouldn't risk it. Even the guinea pig once took a chunk out of a visiting child's arm when he just wouldn't (repeated firm warnings) leave him alone to graze on the lawn.