AIBU to not let DS stayover at MILs after this -dog concerns

[TheMILinatorReturns]

Name changed Sorry Long rant...
Half term, MIL kindly agreed to look after 3YO DS...all going well, photos of fun activities etc and grateful of the help. Then I get a phone call to say she's confessing she has allowed a relative to bring her staffordshire bull terrier into the house with DS present which is something DH told her specifically not to do. I'm guessing she had to 'confess' because DS would have told me anyway...

I'm pretty livid because I don't trust dogs, especially the big ones around my small child and particularly ones I have never met myself. I know I will get flamed for this by diehard dog lovers but to me dogs are animals and can easily flip when under stress, small children and dogs together are (IMHO) an unpredictable mix and an unnecessary risk I wanted to avoid with our child. Also she has not respected my wishes by allowing this (she has past form for this).

Another point is this particular breed doesn't have a great reputation, they are powerful muscular dogs and there are a lot of children according to news channels who have been killed or left with life changing injuries in this country alone. I have actually had a bad experience with one myself when I had to do a home visit and was knocked to the ground and had it not been wearing a muzzle I am not sure what would have happened but that's another story.

Granted I am sure the majority of these dogs are lovely pets and great around kids but.... I was not comfortable with this and DH communicated it to MIL, I never thought she would go ahead anyway. She has apologised says it was an 'accident' she 'thought it was a delivery' and the dog just came running in. This says to me it was out of control for one, surely it should have been on a lead on the street outside...? She says she held DS on her lap whilst the relative sat across the room with the dog and it was 'only five minutes' and the relative had come with a present for DS (his birthday soon). I suppose it is good she has admitted it and apologised but to be honest I think she is trying to minimise it and I don't know why she didn't just say 'please will you take the dog away whilst my grandson is here'. She could even have blamed it on me and said my crazy DIL wont let me have dogs in the house whilst I have my grandson here, I wouldn't have cared. To me she has prioritised the relatives feelings over my sons safety. This is really difficult for me because on the one hand I feel everyone will think I am overreacting but on the other had something gone wrong and the dog got jealous (it often stays with MIL apparently) and bitten DS... it just doesn't bear thinking about. Trying to put this into perspective as nothing actually happened (and I will probably be accused of PFBS) but the fact is she knew our wishes, WHY then allow this to happen, I just don't get it? It was the only rule we lay down, didn't even say don't feed him up with sweets and chocolate (which she always does) because we realise this is a grandparent thing. Part of me wonders if she is trying to push my buttons on purpose as she has been difficult over other issues in the past (she can be quite overbearing and manipulative - I never thought spiteful though). She called me up on video call to 'confess' and I wonder if she wanted to witness my reaction. I really want DS to see his grandparents but I am going to sit worrying about this bloody dog being near him now if I send him back there to stayover and that I cannot trust MIL to do as we have asked. AIBU to tell MIL she can see DS but only at our house or at hers when we are there and no more staying over? DH will support this. However I don't want to be accused by SIL and other family members of keeping MIL away from DS...what to do?!

I think some posters are getting hung up and offended over the naming of this specific breed rather than the fact op would prefer her small unpredictable, noisy, grabby 3yo child is introduced to dogs in a safe and sensible manner rather than having a strange dog allowed into a small living space with said child.
Its most probable the dog is and was fine. But how does op know she wasn't there.
Also the fact that mil allowed the dog into the house despite the parents wishes would lead to a lack of trust. At which point I woild wonder how true her version of events was too.
I would not be allowing mil to have my child alone for the foreseeable until you feel the child is able to be quiet and settled around a dog or she can be trusted again.
I wouldnt make a statement just avoid the childminding.

I’m a “die hard dog lover” but I wouldn’t be happy.
You communicated your wishes and she ignored them pretty much. She has coughed up and apologised but what about next time?
It doesn’t matter what breed the dog is or what scenario we are talking about. Your MIL ignored your wishes, that’s the problem.

I agree with jollypostman, dogs can pick up on fear and it’s important not to pass that on to your child. It doesn’t mean you have to like dogs or be around them if you don’t want to, but it’s just useful to know what to do if a dog turns on you or approaches you.

@RickJames well personally I think they get jealous, sad, happy etc but then I also think they’re intelligent and loving and I definitely anthropomorphise them!

Just felt it was a tad hypocritical of the OP to essentially dislike dogs for being animals but then give them human emotions

On one hand your MIL told you and controlled the dog once it had run into the house.
But. It is not her dog and if a situation occurred how much control would she have over it and
You specifically asked her to keep the dog away from your son. She has ignored other requests in the past and just done what she wanted.
I would be worried that this is a thin end of the wedge situation, where she says that DS was fine the last time the dog visited and therefore she saw no risk in a second visit.
If you don't trust her to stick to your requests then at the end of the day you don't really trust her to look after him.

@TheMandalorian

I think some posters are getting hung up and offended over the naming of this specific breed rather than the fact op would prefer her small unpredictable, noisy, grabby 3yo child is introduced to dogs in a safe and sensible manner rather than having a strange dog allowed into a small living space with said child. Its most probable the dog is and was fine. But how does op know she wasn't there. Also the fact that mil allowed the dog into the house despite the parents wishes would lead to a lack of trust. At which point I woild wonder how true her version of events was too. I would not be allowing mil to have my child alone for the foreseeable until you feel the child is able to be quiet and settled around a dog or she can be trusted again. I wouldnt make a statement just avoid the childminding.

Where did you get the idea OP wants her child introduced to dogs in a safe and sensible manner? She's explicitly said the exact opposite. OP said she wants to avoid her child meeting dogs - end of. Not to mention, a dog that is known to the adults, for a short period of time, in a familiar environment, on a lead and whilst the child is on a lap is quite literally the safest and most sensible way you could possibly introduce a child to a dog. No one is saying she shouldn't be cautious around dogs - everyone should. They're saying it's irrational to keep her child away from all dogs and it is irrational. It will also create an irrational fear in her own child (which is unfair) and is more likely to lead to problems with her child and dogs later on (because her child will be both scared and not know how to interact with them). Everyone seems to agree that MIL should have tried to abide by OP's wishes regardless of how ridiculous her wishes are.

YABU for calling a Staffie a ‘large dog’. I think you’re getting them mixed up with another breed (Pitbull maybe?) as Staffies aren’t large and are renowned for being good with kids - they have the nickname ‘Nanny dog’ for that reason.

If things happened as MIL described I think you overreacted and I’d be concerned about passing on your fear of dogs/staffies to your DS.

Op I was with you until I read she rang you to tell you and it was only 5 mins while she kept DS on her lap. I think you’re being OTT, yes I totally agree you must never leave some dogs alone with children, but this wasn’t the case in this situation it doesn’t sound unsafe or concerning. Maybe your dislike of her is clouding your judgement.

It was an unexpected visit. It lasted 5 minutes. And the entire time your DS sat in MILs lap away from the dog.

So YABU in this case. And I do agree with you about dogs and small children. But this isn’t a case of MIL ignoring your wishes, or letting the child anywhere near the dog.

MIL is free childcare for you, so you need to have some trust in her and not be over controlling.

@Chloemol You say 'it’s not fair on your child who needs to understand how to trust animals' but should I really teach him that when realistically you can never trust an animal 100% it doesn't think exactly like a human despite what people want to believe. I am actually an animal lover in spite of my concerns about dogs. I used to ride horses but you can easily be caught off guard my a horse and be kicked or bitten on the bum (speaking from experience). I agree it wouldn't be good for him to be afraid of them but I don't think keeping them separate whilst he is small and in some situations is going to give him a life long fear of dogs is it?

@2bazookas I do see your point. It's tricky as I don't want to overeact but big unknown dogs near my ds is just a hard limit for me. It's just disappointing that the exact thing we asked her to ensure didn't happen happened. Someone else mentioned to ask her how she would ensure it didn't happened again and that sounds sensible.

@PolytheneHam If they are a 'nanny dog' (which intimates they could be safely left alone to mind a child - that's what nannies do after all) then why are there many reports of dead and mutilated children or the 11 that were savaged whilst in a playground by a staffie. Can't all have been unsupervised surely? Or do you think there were all aggravating factors so could have been prevented? I'm not saying this to be arsey I am genuinely interested in what you think as I think surely no smoke without fire there?

@Calligraphy572 I see where you are coming from BUT we specifically asked for that not to happen, were reassured by her and a day later it happens.

@caringcarer yes that is exactly how I felt and annoyed to hear it wasn't on a lead too as surely that's irresponsible. Letting her take DS out sounds sensible as then hopefully no concerns.

@DartmoorDoughnut "You can’t call them animals and then apply human emotions to them such as jealousy, it’s daft" I don't think they can use reason and logic like us but I've absolutely seen an animal show a sort of 'jealousy' or at least vying for the same attention another animal nearby is getting.. "Unless you read the Daily Fail obvs ..." no actually various BBC news articles but Daily fail trawls the bottoms for anything and everything...

@Jollypostman1991

"teaching a child that certain breeds are inherently more dangerous is problematic" no one has said I am teaching DS that (because that would be daft), I simply asked MIL to keep a large dog that she sometimes looks after away from my son.

"Yes, they’d cause more damage, but get your child to the point that they know how to safely interact with a dog (not approaching without owner’s permission, holding hand out to be sniffed first, not rolling around on the floor with a dog, looking for licking of lips/yawning as signs of stress etc) and you can avoid any damage in the first place". I agree this could alleviate some of my concerns BUT you cannot guarantee just by knowing these things you will avoid an attack, however you can if there is no dog in the situation at all which I was trying to ensure in this scenario. Also a great many times dogs have jumped up at my son and clawed him when we were out walking minding our own business and the owner has said something like 'oh he is just being friendly'. That may be the case but really annoys me because no one asks for their personal space to be invaded (keep your mutt out my child's face!) and I wonder if the owner would feel the same if I started pawing at them unannounced with my claws. I am just being friendly, what you don't like it? But I digress! I guess it tends to be the negative experiences that stick in your mind most unfortunately.

@jackfruitz Wow that is a very powerful video thanks. When you look closer actually you can see the dogs body language but first glance just dog and kids playing together harmless fun.

@qazxc my thoughts exactly, just put it in another room why couldn't she do that. Sensible suggestion on how to handle this

@Storyoftonight Yes bad experience has tended to condition me a little...ironically like Pavlov's dog. Perhaps I need to get 'dog therapy'. But can I start with a non threatening cute cuddly one? Please!

@Nottherealslimshady "You are very unreasonable to judge this particular dog for its breed especially when it's a bloody staffy, they're known as nanny dogs because they're typically amazing with kids. You have had no bad experiences with this individual so you are being ridiculous" Maybe but its breed is all I have to go on as I haven't met it. I'm not keen on any strange dog near my DS to be honest. She can bring a pack of staffies, crocodiles or any other animal in her house for all I care when my DS isn't there, her house!

I think I have refound my sense of humour on this so thanks all for posting.

Everyone seems to agree that MIL should have tried to abide by OP's wishes regardless of how ridiculous her wishes are.

I don’t. If a family is using a grandparent for free childcare they don’t have the right to expect any ridiculous wishes are abided by. Not in this case, and not in general.

@StayCloseSpooky

The issue isn't necessarily the dog, it's that you specifically said you didn't want a dog round your child. I don't think it's an over reaction at all.

It is! She said it's the breed. You know you're more likely to get bitten by other breeds. The media only reports staff bites because they have a agenda. If you don't like the child over there don't let it go.

Oh dear. Let the staffie bashing commence... 🙄🙄🙄

’The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is one of only two from over 190 breeds that the UK Kennel Club recommend as being suitable for children, the other being a Chesapeake Retriever.’. That says it all really.

Don’t believe everything you read in the Daily Fail. I am almost six months pregnant and we have a staffie, and I am not at all worried. But of course the dog and the baby will be supervised at all times although you should do this with any dog regardless of breed or size.

I do agree with you that all dogs can be unpredictable. We tend to look at them like they are our babies and sometimes forget that they are animals with instincts, and not to be trusted around small children regardless of breed. If you are only wary of certain breeds then you are putting yourself at risk as any dog can bite.

Also I just wanted to point out that lock jaw is a myth as I know someone will inevitably bring it up. ‘The infamous “locking jaw” myth has been assigned to a variety of dog breeds, including the American Staffordshire Terrier, Bulldog and Boxer, but it's exactly that — a myth. No type of dog has been found to have a mechanism that enables them to “lock” their top and bottom jaws together.’ There are lots of dogs with stronger jaws then the the staffie including the GS, Doberman and Rottie.

I wouldn’t mind providing the dog was not left alone unsupervised with my child.

@TheMILinatorReturns tbf you keep away from dogs so ... www.bbc.co.uk/earth/story/20140909-are-dolphins-cleverer-than-dogs

@TheMandalorian

I think some posters are getting hung up and offended over the naming of this specific breed rather than the fact op would prefer her small unpredictable, noisy, grabby 3yo child is introduced to dogs in a safe and sensible manner rather than having a strange dog allowed into a small living space with said child. Its most probable the dog is and was fine. But how does op know she wasn't there. Also the fact that mil allowed the dog into the house despite the parents wishes would lead to a lack of trust. At which point I woild wonder how true her version of events was too. I would not be allowing mil to have my child alone for the foreseeable until you feel the child is able to be quiet and settled around a dog or she can be trusted again. I wouldnt make a statement just avoid the childminding.

Yep that is how I feel. He is very noisy and grabby, wouldn't be fun for the dog either. Yes a safe and sensible manner when I am there to supervise.

I’m a big dog lover and a dog owner.

But I am not happy about any dog that is not my own around my children truthfully.
I think your largely wrong about the breed but I agree, your MIL was out of order and should have sent the relative away.

The reality is most people are not able to pick up on subtle dog cues, the majority of dog bites are to children under 5 and a significant proportion of dogs are uncomfortable around children.

So yes, I am agreement.
Not about the breed, but I am in agreement about not wanting dogs there

I was prepared to say YANBU as I expected the post to go along the lines of MIL letting your baby play with an unpredictable dog with something awful potentially happening and her not telling you (so you finding out from another source).

However, it does seem like you are being unreasonable. She told you which is great and it seems like she was keeping your child safe. All you need to do is re-iterate that next time you'd prefer if she said to the owner of the dog that DIL isn't keen on dogs, can it stay on a lead or go outside.

I think you also might want to try and improve on how you feel about dogs. Most people have them and your child will go on playdates to friends houses who more likely than not, will have a dog. Try to get over the anxiety dogs cause you now so you aren't struggling later on.

Be glad you didn't marry my ds op. I had dgs from 5 months old 2 nights a week and we had 4 ddogs. One was a rottweiler.. Dil never hesitated handing her pfb over as she trusted me with my own flesh and blood. You either trust mil or you don't and find alternative child care.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Everyone seems to agree that MIL should have tried to abide by OP's wishes regardless of how ridiculous her wishes are.

I don’t. If a family is using a grandparent for free childcare they don’t have the right to expect any ridiculous wishes are abided by. Not in this case, and not in general.

Am I getting this right, if my son visits his grandparents - I cannot stipulate anything. I have zero rights regarding my kid once he leaves my care even if I want to tell them something I think is for his benefit? Wow seriously? I don't feel asking a strange dog I haven't met not to be brought near my son is a 'ridiculous wish'.

By the way although I am grateful I can easily manage without the 'free childcare' it's as much for the GPs benefit as mine and DS.

Do you believe your MIL when she said the visit was unannounced, lasted 5 mins and your son was on her knee the whole time? If she was worried he was going to tell you about it’s quite possible she gave you the most palatable version possible and fudged the truth.

If she has form for disregarding your wishes in the past then I think for me the trust would be gone.

In a way the original request (re keeping away from dogs) is irrelevant - you have one pretty simple rule and she broke it. FWIW I think your approach re dogs is totally reasonable. However I also think you can’t now rely on her for free childcare if you don’t trust her. No need to keep your DS away from her, just don’t leave him there unsupervised.

@PlanDeRaccordement

It was an unexpected visit. It lasted 5 minutes. And the entire time your DS sat in MILs lap away from the dog.

So YABU in this case. And I do agree with you about dogs and small children. But this isn’t a case of MIL ignoring your wishes, or letting the child anywhere near the dog.

MIL is free childcare for you, so you need to have some trust in her and not be over controlling.

She did ignore our wishes. We said we didnt want the dog in the house with our kid. That happened. We didnt say we dont want the dog in the house for longer than 5 minutes. We said WE DO NOT WANT THE DOG IN THE HOUSE NEAR OUR SON AT ALL. MIL looks after DS overnight only occasionally can count times on one hand so far. She isn't some cash cow of childcare for us, we pay through the nose for childcare elsewhere but that's another issue. She wants to do it more which is why it is so odd this was allowed to happen.

I’ve worked with dogs professionally at a dog rescue centre. I only feel comfortable letting my children socialise with dogs if I know the dog and the owner. I would feel pissed off too in this scenario.

@Sunnydaysstillhere

Be glad you didn't marry my ds op. I had dgs from 5 months old 2 nights a week and we had 4 ddogs. One was a rottweiler.. Dil never hesitated handing her pfb over as she trusted me with my own flesh and blood. You either trust mil or you don't and find alternative child care.

Yes that would give me a coronary but then I have not been brought up around them..I presume though you were able to acquaint them with eachother carefully. I do have alternative childcare by professionals - there seems to be this general tone that if I was relying on her for childcare I would have to put up and shut up with everything. Is that really the way it works? Would you give that same advice to a SAHP to put up and shut up with any behaviour from their other half because they don't bring in the cash'?

@FolkSongSweet

Do you believe your MIL when she said the visit was unannounced, lasted 5 mins and your son was on her knee the whole time? If she was worried he was going to tell you about it’s quite possible she gave you the most palatable version possible and fudged the truth.

If she has form for disregarding your wishes in the past then I think for me the trust would be gone.

In a way the original request (re keeping away from dogs) is irrelevant - you have one pretty simple rule and she broke it. FWIW I think your approach re dogs is totally reasonable. However I also think you can’t now rely on her for free childcare if you don’t trust her. No need to keep your DS away from her, just don’t leave him there unsupervised.

Not sure if I believe her...find it all a bit odd. 'just don’t leave him there unsupervised' yes that was my instinct.

I think you may be missing the wood for the trees. What you want to know is whether MIL makes sensible decisions and acts to keep your ds safe.

(I don't know your MIL, so maybe your suspicions that she is messing with you are spot on.)

But how I read it, she did not blatantly disregard your concerns. She cut short the relative's visit (allegedly) and kept ds on her lap, out of harm's way, then told you it had happened. She took your concerns into account, but decided her course of action was safe.

Up to you, of course. But surely a dog could approach ds in the park or a cafe while they are out together. This incident suggests that she will keep him out of harm's way even if a dog is around.

YABU.

And just so you know, Staffies rock this world.