That's a first. Accused of transphobia. WIBU? Screenshots.

[DelvingintoInsanity]

A group on facebook that I'm in.

Have never been accused of transphobia before and like to think I'm a tolerant and inclusive person. Quite socked and wondering if I am in the wrong here?

Clearly, I'm now close from being banned from the group. Just for context, it's a writing group.

@Perfect28, so you want to live in a world where people can transition the person they were biologically born as?

What about the white people who self ID as black? Do you think that is acceptable? Or perfectly healthy people to ID as disabled? At what point does 'live and let live' become 'offensive and appropriation'? At what point does biology/genetics matter again?

@Perfect28

Just out of interest, what do you think would be the outcome if transwomen were sent to male prisons?

They would be in danger of assault from men, just like women in women's prisons would be if male prisoners identifying as women are admitted to their estate. Trans women should be given safe, separate accommodation within the male estate, imo.

Why is that womens problem to sort out?

Transwomen should he made safe in tbe prison of their biological sex.

Perhaps without the potential to he sent to a womens prison those chances on prison who suddenly ID as women wouldn't waste their time.

Women already don't get adequate sanitary protection provided in womens prisons so spending funding on making XY people safe in a womans prison is taking away resources for basics.

@Perfect28

Just out of interest, what do you think would be the outcome if transwomen were sent to male prisons?

Women were not put on this earth to be nice and let anyone appropriate their space or lives because men cannot be trusted to be nice or not fucking rape and be violent. Change men and their shitty behaviour rather than expected women to 'be kind' in their stead.

How are the dating sites.going to work if we drop man and woman? "Human is looking for a human" or "Human (V) is looking for a Human (P)"? Seriously interested.

21:20CaraDuneRedux

Because it's going nowhere, will breed division and lead to people not wanting to share their work. If you push your point and take it outside the writing it's going to weaken the group as no one is agreeing with anyone else or likely to. No one emerges a better writer from this, it needed to wrap up.

To be fair I'm pan so I have no idea. 🤗

@Perfect28

To be fair I'm pan so I have no idea. 🤗

What the fuck does that have to do with anything .

Cool well I'm a feminist who believes that men get a pretty raw deal from sexism and misogyny too, so actually I would rather no one was raped rather than just women were not raped. Apparently that makes me some kind of extremist who hates women. Lol. Goodnight all. I hope you learn to understand nuance ❤️

@VettiyaIruken

*@DimidDavilby - are you saying you believe it is transphobic to say that a person requires specific organs in order to be pregnant?

I will PayPal you £1000 if you can link me to an article about a person who has gestated a child without that person having a womb at the time.

Plus another £1000 if you can explain why it is factually incorrect to say a womb is required to gestate a foetus*

There have been successful abdominal pregnancies.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5889830/

Both of these women still had their uterus.

obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1471-0528.1980.tb04557.x

Did not.

Do I get the 2k?

I do believe this can only happen in females due to the hormones necessary to maintain a pregnancy.

Couldn’t happen in a man.

@Perfect28

It's not about not being nice. Fuck being nice. But we don't have to be cruel. It doesn't have to be about creating divisions. Misogyny and sexism doesn't benefit transfolks either.

Who is being cruel?

@Perfect28

Cool well I'm a feminist who believes that men get a pretty raw deal from sexism and misogyny too, so actually I would rather no one was raped rather than just women were not raped. Apparently that makes me some kind of extremist who hates women. Lol. Goodnight all. I hope you learn to understand nuance ❤️

@Perfect28 I'll translate that for you.

'All lives matters, I'm going to completely ignore any questions about other ID politics as I have no good answer to why men can ID as women and be seen as brave, but white people IDing as black is quite rightly offensive. I'll make some random comment about how I self ID and run away LOL'

Womens prisons aren't a dumping ground for xy people who may not be safe with the xy people

Transwomen are generally held on the Vulnerable Prisoners wing in male prisons, which is exactly the right place for them. They are male, and vulnerable...

The minute number of incarcerated transmen seem to cope perfectly fine in womens prisons. Funny, that.

@Perfect28

To be fair I'm pan so I have no idea. 🤗

Well that’s as maybe. What does your preferences for a sexual partner have to do with how men and women are defined?

So that’s just boring old bi then in old money?

I'm not fighting anyone on this debate. My point is why does it have to be a fight?

Because this is an outright attack on women's rights. Or should we all just "be nice", like good little girls? .

Misogyny and sexism doesn't benefit transfolks either.

How exactly does misogyny affect somebody like Stonewall's Alex Drummond, who is "expanding the bandwidth of what it means to be a women." Oh, and you'd better not discount his Lesbian credentials, just because he has a dick, as that would be Transphobic

Worsds matter. Reality matters. Alex is a cross-dressing straight bloke. He could challenge gender stereotypes, drop the Trans shit and just crack on and wear a dress and rings in his everyday life as a man, but that wouldn't get him any praise, or compliments on his look (as he has admitted himself)
So much of this just feels like the most monumental, gas-lighting piss-take. It should be funny, but it is pushing back women's rights and seriously damaging children. But hey, let's not argue about it

FairFridaythe13th

Come on now Friday, we all now that being Pan makes you soooo much more interesting than boring old Bi .....

Sorry, but that person hardly has English, let alone biology.

"It is integral that you realize," what?!

Written like a pompous 14 yo who has not been paying attention in class. Don't engage. Find a better group. Wait - this was a writing group and this person is a mod?

Definitiely find a better writing group!

Why do these people always go in about how there is ‘new’ science that supersedes everything we all about human biology, and how humans are created. If you are not up to speed on this newly discovered science then you are some kind of right wing, fascistic luddite. It’s so bloody daft and I’m so over it.

There have been successful abdominal pregnancies.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5889830

I’d hardly call them successful......yes the women were pregnant but the pregnancies had to be terminated at an early stage to save the women’s lives. Not my definition of a successful pregnancy

@Lifeinthelastlane

What does that even mean?

I can hear that note of desperation in your post

Fuck knows is the only answer i have

@Perfect28

To be fair I'm pan so I have no idea. 🤗

Being pansexual means you have no sexual preference. Bully for you. You crack on.

Not sure how that's relevant to the biological reality of how babies are created and gestated.

[quote mir82726]@thereplycamefromanchorage this is exactly the childish comments I mean. I'm all for debate but a respectful debate would be nice...

It is possible to give someone who was born with a penis a vagina or create a penis for someone with a vagina. This is the sex of the person changing.
Just because they don't have a womb doesn't make them not biologically female. Are people with hysterectomy no long biological females?

The NHS website explaining gender reassignment surgery: www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/[/quote]
Ehh YES IT DOES !!

We weren't created, we evolved.