That's a first. Accused of transphobia. WIBU? Screenshots.

[DelvingintoInsanity]

A group on facebook that I'm in.

Have never been accused of transphobia before and like to think I'm a tolerant and inclusive person. Quite socked and wondering if I am in the wrong here?

Clearly, I'm now close from being banned from the group. Just for context, it's a writing group.

They tell us to stop conflating sex and gender, but that's exactly what this man is doing here. Men can't give birth or have periods. Transmen can, and anyone (even with their basic GCSE grade, as he says) knows why. The science aint changing no matter how much they will it to.

@yourhairiswinterfire absolutely! You put it a lot more succinctly than I would have.

I'm intrigued by the 5% of people who have voted YABU. So there are about 17 people knocking around the site who believe....what.....that men can gestate babies?

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg or do they want to pander to transwomen by saying ‘Yeah, dear, you can gestate babies if you want’? Which would be bonkers, because of course they can’t.

@thereplycamefromanchorage this is exactly the childish comments I mean. I'm all for debate but a respectful debate would be nice...

It is possible to give someone who was born with a penis a vagina or create a penis for someone with a vagina. This is the sex of the person changing.
Just because they don't have a womb doesn't make them not biologically female. Are people with hysterectomy no long biological females?

The NHS website explaining gender reassignment surgery: www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/

You come across as more confused but a lot of people get confused with trans terminology. It sounds as though the person accusing you of transphobia was also confused.A transman is a female who changes gender identity and usually takes testosterone/ has a mastectomy etc. They can get pregnant although why you would do such a female thing if you have gender dysphoria mystifies me. Transwomen can't give birth because they are male.

or do they want to pander to transwomen by saying ‘Yeah, dear, you can gestate babies if you want’? Which would be bonkers, because of course they can’t.

@Shizzlestix, have you ever seen the 'Loretta' scene? That joke has become reality.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

In a few years there will be a fair few young people who have medically transitioned and had their bodies pumped full of harmful hormones which mean they will be sterile and will never experience sexual pleasure. Have had irreversible surgery maiming their working-perfectly body to create an illusion they believed years before.

Young people who were championed on by those who are currently telling us we're on the wrong side of history ... I wonder what you'll tell that person when they realise they can't turn the clock back?

Nah mate, pretty sure you're on the wrong side.

This is what I wonder too: they are removing sexual gratification from their organs - why? Is this purpose what lies at the heart of it, rather than mentally “feeling” like a woman or a man?

@mir82726

“ It is possible to give someone who was born with a penis a vagina or create a penis for someone with a vagina. This is the sex of the person changing.”

Haha. Oh dear. In that case is John Wayne Bobbit a lady?

This whole thing drives me mad. There's such a thing as scientific reality and no amount if woke bullshit will change that.

You can only give birth if you were born with a womb.

Science can give you created genitalia but your basic dna will not alter. You can (and should be able to) identify as you wish but you cannot alter the underlying base scientific facts, no matter what spin you put on it.

No, it isn't. There is no comparison between a vagina as created by nature and a neovagina created by a surgeon. The former is the birth canal, made out of muscle, leading to the cervix, which is the entrance to the uterus. The latter is a wound created by a surgeon which would heal over if not dilated a couple of times a day.

A biological woman who doesn't have a uterus is a woman with a DSD. There is no comparison between a woman with a health condition and a male who has undergone elective surgery on the genital area.

Are people with hysterectomy no long biological females?

Of course they are. In the same way males who have their penis chopped off are still male.

Ooh, the logic gets you every time😂 this is fun.

Just read the long reply to my comment. Literally taking a few small examples and getting worked up about them. You're creating a battle where there doesn't need to be one. Stop caring what you're called. Why do you care? I'm a person. I want human rights. That's it. If someone else wants to define as whatever, who cares? Women sexually assault other women in women's prisons. Can we not see sexual assault as the problem and not sex? There are a million issues in this world to fight. To be an activist. Causes to take up. This just seems an odd one. Children literally drowned today trying to get to the UK. Proportion?

[quote mir82726]@thereplycamefromanchorage this is exactly the childish comments I mean. I'm all for debate but a respectful debate would be nice...

It is possible to give someone who was born with a penis a vagina or create a penis for someone with a vagina. This is the sex of the person changing.
Just because they don't have a womb doesn't make them not biologically female. Are people with hysterectomy no long biological females?

The NHS website explaining gender reassignment surgery: www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/[/quote]
@mir82726 are you really so uneducated that you think removing or adding genitals changes ones actual sex? You are completely ignoring so many other biology, genetic and physiological factors.

Your explanation is the equivalent of saying 'if I completely tattoo my body black, then I am now biologically black'. Absolutely offensive bollocks.

*Are people with hysterectomy no long biological females?

Of course they are. In the same way males who have their penis chopped off are still male.

Ooh, the logic gets you every time😂 this is fun.*

Also. You talked about Sex and gender being different. Told us ppl can change SEX and then provided evidence for this with a link about GENDER reassignment

Engage your brain.

No, @mir82786, you can't change biological sex. Surgery does not change your chromosomes, which are determined at conception.

I'm sorry if my comment came over as flippant, because I also believe that debate should be respectful on both sides, but sex is immutable, it's basic biology.

Just because they don't have a womb doesn't make them not biologically female.
Maybe acquaint yourself with the actual definition of biological before you try to argue the point?

Just read the long reply to my comment. Literally taking a few small examples and getting worked up about them. You're creating a battle where there doesn't need to be one. Stop caring what you're called. Why do you care? I'm a person. I want human rights. That's it. If someone else wants to define as whatever, who cares? Women sexually assault other women in women's prisons. Can we not see sexual assault as the problem and not sex? There are a million issues in this world to fight. To be an activist. Causes to take up. This just seems an odd one. Children literally drowned today trying to get to the UK. Proportion?

@Perfect28

I'm not ignorant ToThe debates I just disagree with getting worked up over something that makes literally no difference to you. Whatsoever. Move along.

If you think it 'makes literally no difference' to women then you are ignorant of the debates, yes.

You were 'worked up' enough to post here instead of 'moving along'.

Women sexually assault other women in women's prisons. Can we not see sexual assault as the problem and not sex?

You do realise that over 98% of incarcerated sex offenders are male? And that of the prisoners in the male estate identifying as women, close to 50% of them are sex offenders? (WPUK - fact checked by the BBC, who seemed very disappointed to discover that if anything, WPUK had been too cautious and conservative in their analysis). And that if all those male sex offenders were transferred to the women's estate, the population of "women" sex offenders would increase by about 50%?

Or, more succinctly, would you be prepared to actually say that shit to the faces of the two women in HMP Bronzefield who were sexually assaulted by rapist (i.e. sex offender in possession of a penis, because that's how rape is defined in UK law) Karen White while held there?

Women like you who play the "but women do it too" card when women are two orders of magnitude less likely to commit sexual offences, and only very very rarely as brutal and violent as men - I have no words really. But your views are disgraceful.

@Perfect28

I think it’s completely off that you are REPEATEDLY commenting on this thread faux flippantly and berating people for “caring” about this. You seemingly care enough to comment over and over?

It is possible to give someone who was born with a penis a vagina or create a penis for someone with a vagina. This is the sex of the person changing

No - women are not just men without a penis.

Sex is about reproductive function. A fake vagina or penis does not change a person’s sex.

@Perfect28, of course sexual assault is a problem, whoever perpetrates it. The problem is that the vast majority of sexual crimes are committed by males. Crime statistics all over the world confirm this. Women and children are disproportionately at risk of sexual crimes because of the greater physical strength of males. That's why we need sex-segregated spaces and services. These are now at risk because some clueless people are saying it's transexclusionary to have women-only services/spaces.

Also, if you don't care about women's sport, the safety of women in prisons, refuges etc, all-women shortlists in politics - how about children? Are you saying we're all wasting our time fretting about the immense irreversible harm being done to children and teenagers in the name of gender ideology? Teenage girls having mastectomies and hysterectomies and not getting the mental health treatment they desperately need. Children having their fertility destroyed long before they can possibly understand what they're agreeing to.

You may think this is way down the list of things we need to care about. I disagree.

Can we not see sexual assault as the problem and not sex?

You surely deliberately chose to say 'sexual assault' and not 'rape' because rape can only be done by one sex.
Interesting.

If someone else wants to define as whatever, who cares?

I assume you're fine with white people identifying as black and taking their places in black-only positions, then.

Bothers me that there are so many transphobes here. That's all. Yes women get raped. I've been raped, twice. Trans people are also very likely to suffer (sexual) assault. They are vulnerable. Women are vulnerable. Why do we have to fight eachother?

I challenged this exact bollocks OP.
They claimed they have a PhD in neuroscience. I asked some random bits to expose them and guess what? They had a PhD in fuck all. Lol. YANBU

@Perfect28, please define transphobe. This word is used so much it's difficult to know now what it means. It can't literally mean fear of trans people. It seems to mean hatred, on the model of homophobia - a fear arising out of ignorance and hostility.

To paraphrase Rebecca West "I have never been quite clear what a transphobe is; I just know it's what men with beards call me whenever I express sentiments which distinguish me from a doormat."